Can Salvation be lost??
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Here is the Scripture to confirm my previous post:
[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV
[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV
As I said in the other thread...
Judas did not have any fruits of a man that was saved. His allegiance was with Rome, not with Christ. He was a "pretend" Christian. He "came out from among them but was not of them". Son of perdition. We are to expect a son of perdition, just like Judas, in the end times.
Apostasy is not a loss of salvation but rather a demonstration that salvation was never truly possessed in the first place (as in, no good fruits)
Judas did not have any fruits of a man that was saved. His allegiance was with Rome, not with Christ. He was a "pretend" Christian. He "came out from among them but was not of them". Son of perdition. We are to expect a son of perdition, just like Judas, in the end times.
Apostasy is not a loss of salvation but rather a demonstration that salvation was never truly possessed in the first place (as in, no good fruits)
Here is a Copy/Paste that I think sums it all up very well......
Question: "Is eternal security biblical?"
Answer: When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 1:24 declares, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy" God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.
The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?
Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.
The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Answer: When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 1:24 declares, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy" God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.
The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?
Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.
The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
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E
in Fact peter shows us quite the opposite. as you said.
20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”
he did not understand the gospel. he had mere belief, When he was confronted, his true heart came out. Peter told him to repent, and recieve the true gospel. which can not be earned by anything.
many people say they believe and even get baptised. but that does not mean they are saved.
G
Some will argue that Judas was never saved, starryfields, like Calvinists (I think) and nothing could be farther from the Truth, Judas was one of 'The Twelve.' He was not just a disciple, who was searching for Christ--and it even says in scripture--that many disciples fell away when Jesus told them to go sell everything and follow Him, wasn't it. Whatever Jesus said, He dismayed the disciples , and, no, I know the pharasees left dejected when God told them their law-faith was of no use to their salvation, but, yes, disciples left the faith when they were CHALLENGED by God. 
Very sad, indeed.
Nice post, milady. Yes, yes, about the Devil too, that is exactly how He appealed to Eve, told her, 'You can live forever, milady.'
Ah, that snake craftier than ANY sword, but NOT craftier than the Sword who is the Spirit who is in us
The Lord leads.
Very sad, indeed.
Nice post, milady. Yes, yes, about the Devil too, that is exactly how He appealed to Eve, told her, 'You can live forever, milady.'
Ah, that snake craftier than ANY sword, but NOT craftier than the Sword who is the Spirit who is in us
The Lord leads.
E
Some will argue that Judas was never saved, starryfields, like Calvinists (I think) and nothing could be farther from the Truth, Judas was one of 'The Twelve.' He was not just a disciple, who was searching for Christ--and it even says in scripture--that many disciples fell away when Jesus told them to go sell everything and follow Him, wasn't it. Whatever Jesus said, He dismayed the disciples , and, no, I know the pharasees left dejected when God told them their law-faith was of no use to their salvation, but, yes, disciples left the faith when they were CHALLENGED by God.
Very sad, indeed.
Nice post, milady. Yes, yes, about the Devil too, that is exactly how He appealed to Eve, told her, 'You can live forever, milady.'
Ah, that snake craftier than ANY sword, but NOT craftier than the Sword who is the Spirit who is in us
The Lord leads.
Very sad, indeed.
Nice post, milady. Yes, yes, about the Devil too, that is exactly how He appealed to Eve, told her, 'You can live forever, milady.'
Ah, that snake craftier than ANY sword, but NOT craftier than the Sword who is the Spirit who is in us
The Lord leads.
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
In john 13, Jesus states that not all of the 12 are saved (clean)
Satan entered judas like the HS enters us. Satan would not be able to enter judas if he was saved.
Judas was a thief. he stole from them the whole ministry, He may have believed Jesus was special, maybe even messiah, But he never believed jesus enough to be cleansed by the word which would make him clean. He was called a devil by Christ himself before anyone even knew who it was. maybe even judas himself.
Satan went into Judas, but not as in demonic possession. Satan can plant evil thoughts into the mind of a believer but it is up to them to rebuke him with the power of Christ invested in them. That is what Judas failed to do because his faith was unstable so Satan used that as an opportunity. The fact that one is saved does not mean they are immune to the attacks of the devil, in fact Satan will greatly attack their faith, health, etc., because they are against Him. John 13:27- And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly, so Judas was not controlled by Satan in the beginning of his ministry. Jesus knew that Judas will betray Him from the beginning--He is omniscient.
Judas was not the only one that Satan confronted. Why did Jesus, in Matthew 16:23, say to Peter "...Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me..."? Was He really calling Peter "Satan"? No. He was rebuking the devil that was influencing Peter's mind. So should we say that Peter also was never saved in the first place? No, he was an apostle sent forth by Christ.
Judas was not the only one that Satan confronted. Why did Jesus, in Matthew 16:23, say to Peter "...Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me..."? Was He really calling Peter "Satan"? No. He was rebuking the devil that was influencing Peter's mind. So should we say that Peter also was never saved in the first place? No, he was an apostle sent forth by Christ.
I think we need to understand that in its true context. we tend to zero in on scriptures without understanding God's entire plan. So we either end up blanking out the rest of His word which was also written for our learning. God keeping persons is based on if they want to remain. God does not take away choice even after you choose Him, you can still choose to leave.
If you once served God and you came to a place where you no longer made Him the love of you life, He will not keep you against your will, not even in His presence.
when God speaks in Revelations about moving a the church from the book of life, He was talking about people not a church, since the church is really the people and it is the names of His chosen that and written in the book of life that He said he will blot out.
In James, it also talks about our brothers in Christ praying for us and saving our souls from hell if we wander from the truth- you first have to have the truth before you are able to wander from it.
We have a part to play in our salvation. We need to grasp the concept of faith without works being dead. It works hand in hand. Our obedience to God is a demonstration of our faith. even at the very beginning of our salvation it involves effort, to believe is an active choice. Your beleif is not validated by the thought of it, it is validated by your effort. For the devils also believe......
If you once served God and you came to a place where you no longer made Him the love of you life, He will not keep you against your will, not even in His presence.
when God speaks in Revelations about moving a the church from the book of life, He was talking about people not a church, since the church is really the people and it is the names of His chosen that and written in the book of life that He said he will blot out.
In James, it also talks about our brothers in Christ praying for us and saving our souls from hell if we wander from the truth- you first have to have the truth before you are able to wander from it.
We have a part to play in our salvation. We need to grasp the concept of faith without works being dead. It works hand in hand. Our obedience to God is a demonstration of our faith. even at the very beginning of our salvation it involves effort, to believe is an active choice. Your beleif is not validated by the thought of it, it is validated by your effort. For the devils also believe......
Salvation from God can never be lost...NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, not in any circumstance or in any situation or even in any sin we might commit.
We will never be forsaken... NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, not in any circumstance or in any situation or even in any sin we might commit.
He will never leave us... NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, not in any circumstance or in any situation or even in any sin we might commit.
Our salvation is complete in Christ and nothing can be added to it or taken from it and it is received by faith as a gift of grace as the righteousness of God.
Ps 55:22, Prov 10:30 What of NEVER is any of you out there having a problem with?
No sinner can repent enough to have it or sin enough to keep it from saving him.
It is the desired will of God for all men to receive it and not perish from it.
Salvation is not an object that can be lost but is the embodiment of a person we know to be Jesus Christ that sticks closer than a brother and is not ashamed to call us brethren.
Salvation comes through the power of God and not our own and can not be manipulated by man to fit his own ends.
Ps 98:1-3
1 O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
2 The Lord hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
We will never be forsaken... NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, not in any circumstance or in any situation or even in any sin we might commit.
He will never leave us... NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, not in any circumstance or in any situation or even in any sin we might commit.
Our salvation is complete in Christ and nothing can be added to it or taken from it and it is received by faith as a gift of grace as the righteousness of God.
Ps 55:22, Prov 10:30 What of NEVER is any of you out there having a problem with?
No sinner can repent enough to have it or sin enough to keep it from saving him.
It is the desired will of God for all men to receive it and not perish from it.
Salvation is not an object that can be lost but is the embodiment of a person we know to be Jesus Christ that sticks closer than a brother and is not ashamed to call us brethren.
Salvation comes through the power of God and not our own and can not be manipulated by man to fit his own ends.
Ps 98:1-3
1 O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
2 The Lord hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
A
yep. Judas stole money from the poor instead of feeding them even before Satan entered him.
in context this happened before Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusealum
John 12
4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, who would betray Him, said, 5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[b] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.
in context this happened before Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusealum
John 12
4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, who would betray Him, said, 5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[b] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.