-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W
As a FYI
The term "predestined" as used by Paul means ONLY that God knows ALL things, and therefore KNOWS what our life-choices will be.
It does not, indeed CANNOT mean that GOD {ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED} actually desires or chooses to send soem folks to hell and others to heaven. NO that is our choice NOT Gods'
[h=3]1Tim.2 Verses 1 to 6[/h]
The term "predestined" as used by Paul means ONLY that God knows ALL things, and therefore KNOWS what our life-choices will be.
It does not, indeed CANNOT mean that GOD {ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED} actually desires or chooses to send soem folks to hell and others to heaven. NO that is our choice NOT Gods'
[h=3]1Tim.2 Verses 1 to 6[/h]
[1] First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
[2] for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
[3] This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[4] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[5] For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
[6] who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.
LOOK in particular at verse 4
God Bless you,
Patrick
working4christ2
The basic difference between the truth and pagan panentheism. In the former, GOD upholds all things through law and the word of his power. The word being Christ, the power being holy spirit, and GOD dwells in the high and holy place.
In the latter, the godhead morphs into a mystical mush that indwells all things. A divine micromanager, so to speak.
No wonder the conflict between the two views. In the latter view, the sense of spiritual presence is the preeminent focus and law is marginalized. In the former, obedience to law and authority is preeminent, which is accomplished through the indwelling spirit's presence..
In the latter, the godhead morphs into a mystical mush that indwells all things. A divine micromanager, so to speak.
No wonder the conflict between the two views. In the latter view, the sense of spiritual presence is the preeminent focus and law is marginalized. In the former, obedience to law and authority is preeminent, which is accomplished through the indwelling spirit's presence..
E
So the trinity being god the father, son and spirit.. 3 persons in one, all having the same essence, Is which one of these?
and why do we have to put everything down in a title or grouping I bet the person you claimed as being pantheism is nothing of the sort.. I have never heard of either of those two. Nor ever heard anyone hold to either of the two.
You read to many books, and hold them as equal to scripture.. No wonder you can;t figure out what people believe.
and why do we have to put everything down in a title or grouping I bet the person you claimed as being pantheism is nothing of the sort.. I have never heard of either of those two. Nor ever heard anyone hold to either of the two.
You read to many books, and hold them as equal to scripture.. No wonder you can;t figure out what people believe.
Basically, panentheism.
Exactly, it's not panentheism or pantheism....I like this description below.
Only the Trinity could have union without loss of personal distinction. If you have union without distinction, you tumble into pantheism, and we would be united to God in such a way as to be completely absorbed into him. There would no longer be a distinct “us” to feel and taste and experience the Trinitarian life.
If you have distinction without union, you end up with deism, where God is just up there watching us from a distance, and we never see our humanity as included in the Trinitarian life.
Motherhood and fatherhood, work and play and music then appear to be merely secular, non-divine aspects of our human experience. Deism leaves us with a Christ-less humanity, and forces us to search beyond our humanity for connection with God.
In Trinitarian theology we say “no” to both pantheism and deism. We have union but no loss of personal distinction, which means that we matter and that our humanity, our motherhood and fatherhood, our work and play and music form the arena for our participation in the Trinitarian life of God.
The Triune God meets us not in the sky or in our self-generated religions, but in our “ordinary” human existence.
Last edited:
F
That's all very interesting. Its also all totally irrelevant.
The doctrine of the Trinity simply expressed is:
There is One true and living God - indivisible, infinite; co-eternal, co-equal, and co-existing in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each possess the same essence and attributes of deity; deserving our obedience and reverence. However, the Father is not the Spirit; the Spirit is not the Son; and the Son is not the Father.
The doctrine of the Trinity simply expressed is:
There is One true and living God - indivisible, infinite; co-eternal, co-equal, and co-existing in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each possess the same essence and attributes of deity; deserving our obedience and reverence. However, the Father is not the Spirit; the Spirit is not the Son; and the Son is not the Father.
The term predestined means that God has predestined what He is talking about, otherwise God is misleading us,. The basis is not given. He has chosen to predestine, on the basis He chooses.
Nowhere does it say God predestines man to hell. ALL MEN have predestined themselves to Hell. However He has predestined those whom He saves to Heaven. No man turns to God of his own free choice.
God may wish for all to be saved, but He knows it is not possible. therefore He chooses out who will be saved. That is what Scripture says (Eph 1.3 ff,; Rom 9.18, 23; 2 Timthy 1.9)
Nowhere does it say God predestines man to hell. ALL MEN have predestined themselves to Hell. However He has predestined those whom He saves to Heaven. No man turns to God of his own free choice.
God may wish for all to be saved, but He knows it is not possible. therefore He chooses out who will be saved. That is what Scripture says (Eph 1.3 ff,; Rom 9.18, 23; 2 Timthy 1.9)
Figures. That quote is from Grace Communion International. False grace is all about communion and eschewing law. What that fellow didn't cover is panentheism, which is basically what he believes and defines as perichoresis - the “mutual indwelling without loss of personal identity". And what is panentheism? Everything in GOD, and GOD in everything, ie., mutual indwelling.
W
My friend what you suggest here is a Moral and theological impossibility.
God "KNOWING" is VERY-far from GOD choosing!
GOD in order to be GOD {GOD= ALL GOOD things perfected} is incapable of what you suggest.
MAN chooses in emulation of God {Gen 1:26+27} our own eternity. GOD only affirms our life choices
Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”
Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”
1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “
“ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Rom.2: 13 “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”
John 3:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
*Jn.14: 21-23 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him
Heb. 5: 9 “and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,”
Friend amight I suggest that you're misiing using or not correctly understanding what the term "predestined" means biblically.
God Bless you,
Patrick
working4christ2
God "KNOWING" is VERY-far from GOD choosing!
GOD in order to be GOD {GOD= ALL GOOD things perfected} is incapable of what you suggest.
MAN chooses in emulation of God {Gen 1:26+27} our own eternity. GOD only affirms our life choices
Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”
Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”
1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “
“ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Rom.2: 13 “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”
John 3:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
*Jn.14: 21-23 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him
Heb. 5: 9 “and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,”
Friend amight I suggest that you're misiing using or not correctly understanding what the term "predestined" means biblically.
God Bless you,
Patrick
working4christ2
Help! Help!
I keep seeing people talk about Christians being predestined to go to heaven.
Is there any Scripture that says that?
I do not think predestination is about eternal destiny. Seriously, look, then look again, and tell me: Does any text say that people are predestinated to heaven (or to hell)?
I keep seeing people talk about Christians being predestined to go to heaven.
Is there any Scripture that says that?
I do not think predestination is about eternal destiny. Seriously, look, then look again, and tell me: Does any text say that people are predestinated to heaven (or to hell)?