Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

FlSnookman7 · Jul 1, 2016

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
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[TD]Rom 8:29
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[TD]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
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[TR]
[TD]

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Rom 8:30
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[TD]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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FreeNChrist · Jul 1, 2016

Chester said:

It seems even John Calvin didn't believe such a thing;

"Since no man is excluded from calling upon God the gate of salvation is open to all. There is nothing else to hinder us from entering, but our own unbelief." - John Calvin

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 1, 2016

Chester said:

Doesn't the word predestine derive from the Latin mistranslation of the Greek word προορίζω (proorizo), which means to designate before? In other words, to note beforehand rather than to determine beforehand.

valiant · Jul 1, 2016

working4christ2 said:

But the Bible says God CHOOSES, He is beyond just waiting for us to choose, He knows we will only choose wrongly.

RUBBISH

God makes our important life choices, He knows we will never make them ourselves.

your verses are out of context and do not say what you want them to say. Those who come to God do so because God has chosen them. You are just unwilling to observe what Scripture teaches because of what you see as free will, which is not Biblical.

valiant · Jul 1, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

No it means to determine beforehand to pre-ordain

προορίζω
proorizō
pro-or-id'-zo
From
G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: - determine before, ordain, predestinate.

Grace777x70 · Jul 1, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

"False grace is all about communion and eschewing law" this is nonsense as usual....

“mutual indwelling without loss of personal identity". is what perichoresis defines within the Trinity their interaction together.

Perichoresis (from Greek: περιχώρησις perikhōrēsis, "rotation")is a term referring to the relationship of the three persons of the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) to one another.It was first used as a term in Christian theology, by the Church Fathers.

DP · Jul 1, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The Israelites died in the wilderness and failed to enter into the promised land. ( the promised land BTW is not going to heaven as there will be no giants in heaven to fight - it's a picture of living in Christ's life here on this earth ).

They did not enter into the promised land because of their unbelief ( some translations have that word as disobedience ).

Moses did not enter into the promised land as well because of his disobedience - yet Jesus was shown talking with him and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses is with the Lord now.

Moses died in the wilderness with all those other Israelites - all that died in the wilderness had different forms of unbelief/disobedience which led for them not entering into the promised land - which to us is a picture of the life of Christ being manifested in us in this earth now.

It's interesting to note that no one died nor was God angry with any of them that came out of Egypt until the Law was brought forth which the people asked for of Moses. After that - that's when they started to die.

Before that they were in grace based on Abraham's covenant and no one was harmed or died and everything was supplied by the Lord for them.

We need to stop this foolishness about people that are "in Christ" losing salvation for going to be with the Lord and start preaching Christ to people so that they can avoid the pit-falls of this life and walk in the inheritance that is theirs in Christ.

We need to be teaching the grace and love of Christ so that people can be built up in Him and walk in freedom in this present world. God is not looking for ways to keep people away from Him which is why Jesus died for us and took away the sin of the world.

He loves us dearly and wants us to be with Him and has provided everything we need and its through belief in Christ alone.

Let's preach the gospel for in "it" is the power of God for salvation. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed and the righteous shall live by faith to faith. ( not our own righteous doing although we will do good works by His life in us manifesting our as we grow in Him ) We need to hear the gospel every day as Christians in order to grow up in Him.

And there is a time for warning and rebuke for those that are not relying on Jesus for everything and how we believe will influence the quality of life we have here on this earth.

Some will die prematurely and will not be partakers of the quality of life that is in Christ to those who believe. The answer to unbelief is to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Most people have not probably even heard the real gospel yet so they don't know how to properly life in the true Christian life - which is completely dependent on Christ's finished work.

You must be young, because in the Church I grew up in the preacher preached fire, brimstone, and the dangers of hell along with The Gospel, which is also written by the way. Preaching only a selective doctrine pulled from pieces of The Bible is not the way to preach The Gospel. People need to hear all of it, not just the lovey-dovey pieces.

working4christ2 · Jul 1, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Well it certainty should be

Thanks

God Bless you

Patrick
working4christ2

valiant · Jul 1, 2016

Chester said:

God is more concerned about WHAT we become, and He certainly predestinates us to that (Rom 8.29; Eph 1.4; etc_

LaurenTM · Jul 1, 2016

is there a path through the woods?

one that does not lead to the big bad wolf in grandma's bed?

scary stuff....brrrrrrr

Grace777x70 · Jul 1, 2016

DP said:

I grew up in a church like that too and it was full of legalism...horrible teaching. Great people that loved the Lord though..just ignorant of the true gospel and the love and grace of God.

We have word for word accounts of the true gospel being preached in Acts 10 and 13...check it out and you will see exactly what the gospel of the grace of Christ really is.

That's not the gospel. There are warnings for the believer that is in unbelief in the finished work of Christ and these will not experience true life here on this earth. This too will be overcome by hearing the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Christians will live and grow in the Lord Jesus by receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

DP · Jul 1, 2016

TMS said:

Saul was not a chosen elect like the Apostles or Patriarchs and prophets. And you should have realized that Saul was of the tribe of Benjamin, when God chose the tribe of Judah to be the king line, which was known even by Jacob per Gen.49:10. Thus Saul was similar to a Judas Iscariot example, and Saul's rebellion against God's commandments revealed it.

So there's a Biblical example of one even given The Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, and because of rebellion against God, He took His Holy Spirit away from Saul and cut him off. Thanks for bringing up Saul, because he serves as a perfect example of how one can lose face with God.

valiant · Jul 1, 2016

LaurenTM said:

yes it is the Shepherd's path where HE is protecting you (John 10.27-29)

eternally-gratefull · Jul 1, 2016

working4christ2 said:

My friend what you suggest here is a Moral and theological impossibility.

God "KNOWING" is VERY-far from GOD choosing!

GOD in order to be GOD {GOD= ALL GOOD things perfected} is incapable of what you suggest.

MAN chooses in emulation of God {Gen 1:26+27} our own eternity. GOD only affirms our life choices

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

“ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

Rom.2: 13 “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”

John 3:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

*Jn.14: 21-23 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him

Heb. 5: 9 “and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,”

Friend amight I suggest that you're misiing using or not correctly understanding what the term "predestined" means biblically.

God Bless you,
Patrick
working4christ2

So God is not perfect. there are things he is unable to do?

I am just asking so I understand you correctly.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 1, 2016

Chester said:

I don't see how you can say this, As we already showed.

We are predestined to be children of God, Holy, In his image,, is that not eternal secity in a nutshell?

(not the calvanist way mind you)

PeterJens · Jul 1, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Now we have the example of Peter who disowned Jesus. And many on pain of death disown Christ.
So this argument is totally naive and not even cogent. But then that is the point.

There is no intellectual integrity in your position you hold it no matter what, and will twist any part
argument to your side, even if it makes no sense, because the emotional message is all the matters,
we are right you are wrong.

It is why people think christian are stupid, because many are so religious no argument matters, just
words that reassure.

DP · Jul 1, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

I disagree with your premise. Warnings about hell fire is part... of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus Himself warned of it in the Four Gospel Books. Just the bringing up of the Matt.7 passages on these kind of threads is enough proof of that also.

The facts are...

1. Some choose to include all the blessings and the warnings Jesus and His Apostles gave when preaching The Gospel, and because many fear going to hell, they converted to Christ Jesus and then learned more about Him in His Word.

2. Some choose to preach only sweet things to itchy ears, instead of preaching the full strength of The Gospel and all it contains. This ensures a steady flow of money and larger membership roles for these types of Churches, because they cover what the people 'want' to hear, and not what they 'need' to hear from God's Word.

I'd have a Mega-Church too if all I did was preach a selective lovey-dovey message from God's Word and told everyone they were saved already. Oh, and add a couple of rock bands too.

Grace777x70 · Jul 1, 2016

DP said:

okie dokie....you are free to believe whatever you want....

Have you read Acts 10 and 13 yet which actually has a word for word account of the real gospel being preached by Peter and Paul?....it's an eye opener and it will conflict with some people's religious beliefs they were brought up with...it did me....just sayin'

eternally-gratefull · Jul 1, 2016

PeterJens said:

Hey, We agree on something, amazing.

I have noticed alot of people who call themselves christian are the most stubborn, thickheaded people I have ever met,, Can't take any kind of chastening or correction, they are right at all cost. and if someone tries to correct them, All out war.

PeterJens · Jul 1, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Again here is a person who has not really looked at the subject. God limits himself to his nature.
So there are things he is unable to do.

And our definition of perfect is not Gods. For instance people think God knows everything.
But infinity is not knowable, because it never ends.

Satan thought he had found a flaw in Gods approach and led a rebellion. How we see things is always
limited by our understanding and perceptions. But man always want to define, box, limit, qualify
everything, and not accept everything is only a perception, we will never know the real boundaries because
we are not God.

Can God make an evil man good. No. Because He chose to give them free will, to make choice precious,
a fruit of love, an outflow of the heart. It has to be protected and allowed to be real.
Could God force things? I do not know, because only he fully understands the limitations, but it appears not.
Inevitably there are two kingdoms, the one of dominance and desire against love and hope.

Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

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