The generally accepted speculation of Adam's having fallen by "hearkening unto his wife's voice" and "not deceived is that he either didn't believe what the serpent said or else, I'd have to assume that Eve repeated what the serpent said to Adam and he didn't believe her but ate anyway.
However, it'd occurred to me there may be a different view of it in that Eve was deceived by the serpents lie that taking from the tree would be "good" for them. And it is my opinion that the moment she 'decided for herself' that the tree was "pleasant" and "good" for food was the actual moment that she fell into transgression before reaching out and confirming it (that personal opinion) to 'the rest of creation and all its angels, in deed. Effectively witnessing that her opinion was superior to God's. But, when scripture says that Adam was not deceived, why should we jump to the conclusion that anyone tried to persuade him of anything other than maybe, "the tree is pleasant to look at and good for food?" And, apart from the clue that he listened to the voice of his wife, why should we even go so far as to presume even that happened? Scripture only says, 'and she gave it to her husband with her'.
why should we jump to the conclusion that anyone tried to persuade him of anything other than maybe, "the tree is pleasant to look at and good for food?" And, apart from the clue that he listened to the voice of his wife, why should we even go so far as to presume even that happened? Scripture only says, 'and she gave it to her husband with her
“Well let’s look and see what scripture says real quick “ so we can seperate what your saying are assumptions not there from what is there
“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:2-4, 6 KJV
What else is there when God speaks to Adam ? He tells us what Paul’s actually talking about which I think you aren’t accepting is actually there
first God speaks to the serpent who led the woman astray …..
“And
the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
( then he addresses the woman who is
now and here placed under her husbands authority because of what she did )
….
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in
sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and
thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
( finally he speaks to Adam and
tells us what led Adam to eat the fruit )
…And
unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
Genesis 3:14, 16-17 KJV
It seems a much larger jump to say it’s
not connected that Adam listened to what his wife was a saying and then ate the fruit …..
seems sinple 1 both knew the commandment and warning of death if they ate the fruit that’s there , check .
2 the serpent spoke contrary thkngs to eve about the fruit and she ate it and also written is that God said Adam listened to his wife’s words and then ate the fruit and broke his commandment and the result was the earth was cursed because of his transgression and now thier days were numbered until thier bodies returned to dust
“And unto Adam he said,
Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, ( personally I don’t think it’s a reach to understand she had spread the false doctrine to Adam but just my own opinion ) of which
I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
Genesis 3:17, 19 KJV
I think Paul’s whole point comes from this situation and is being misused and mis understood
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
1 Timothy 2:11-15 KJV
This is Paul’s argument of why he doesn’t allow women to teach or even speak in a church setting. When he says “ “ it was the woman who was deceived “ I sort of think his point is “ the woman was the weak link it was she who hearkened to the serpents voice and transgressed and led the man into it ect ….
I don’t think he’s saying “ the man was never deceived nor did he sin “
because he places transgrsssion and blame on Adam alone in other places like this place
“Wherefore, as
by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so
death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after
the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
Romans 5:12, 14
I don’t read this sentance as “ Adam wasn’t in transgression and was never deceived “
“And
Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. “
i think Paul’s talking about what originally happened and what led man to become sinful and not saying Adam never sinned and was never deceived but he’s just showing the same order of Gods response in Eden the woman and then the man whom she was placed beneath his authority then and not before transgression
bit listen truthfully this is just my own thinking from what Ive read everyone here can really only offer what they think is correct and then show why they think that if needed.
a I feel like I’ve shown that the serpent spoke to eve who knew the commandment and that eve then spoke to Adam who then ate the fruit as she had after she spoke to the serpent . But it’s just what I think I’ve shoen support for.
i don’t think eve was talking about the weather and then Adam suddenly ate the forbidden by God fruit . I believe she probably was telling him something like “
the serpent said it wouldn’t harm us so I tried some and look darling , I have t died I feel great still and it’s so good taste it “
Of course that’s just my thinking but makes sense that they really weren’t very wise and kind of took the serpent at his word even though it caused a conflict with what God said earlier as a rule
it’s easier to do what you feel like doing than always what your supposed to do … it’s a human condition. Eve gave in first is my opinion but again nothing I’ve ever said has been “ Gods fact or absolute truth “ just an old man’s opinion in a public somewhat cooky Bible forum
