Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

I know man cannot administer the baptism of the Holy Spirit - who says man has to administer a baptism? Jesus Christ administers the baptism with Holy Spirit to all who believe and have faith in him. Why wouldn't I want to be baptized with the "greater" baptism of our Lord Jesus Christ and be immersed with Holy Spirit?

Anyway that is not what this thread is about . . .

BradC · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

1 Peter 3:20-21

(1) A proportional applying of the former example to the time which followed the coming of Christ: for the preservation of Noah in the waters, was a figure of our baptism, not as though the material water of baptism shows us, as those waters which bare up the ark saved Noah, but because Christ with his inward virtue, which the outward baptism shadows, preserves us being washed, so that we may call upon God with a good conscience.
(2) The conscience being sanctified, may freely call upon God.
(3) That same virtue, by which Christ rose again, and now being carried up into heaven has received all power, does at this day defend and preserve us.

DiscipleDave · Jan 12, 2015

It is only on Judgment Day that one is judged either to be Saved or not Saved. Hence the reason it is mentioned several times in Scriptures that He who endures to the end shall be Saved. And all seven messages to the seven churches teach those who overcome. Paul teaches that he has not gotten the prize yet. That prize being Salvation.
Judgement Day is the Day that will determine who is and who is not SAVED. Those who endure to the end, shall remain SAVED. If they do not endure to the end, they shall be what the Bible calls, blotted out of the Book of Life, they shall not remain Saved.
A person can be Saved today fall out of fellowship with God tomorrow, repent get back into His Good Graces the day after that. It is Judgement Day that will decide whether a person is Saved or not Saved.

^i^

Rudimental · Jan 12, 2015

OP thats a paradox, you are already saved brother!

Okay there's a lot of depth here but I say Yes confidently.

Because you are already saved! Its not like you need to do anything else now lol \o/

Lots of deep stuff, quotes and versus here but there's only one a couple really needed.

Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

That's it. That's the beauty of the simplicity of it. It doesn't matter what sins you commit after it, all your sins are covered by the very Holy Spirit (by Jesus' work).

Thats why we should rejoice continually for what the Lord Jesus Christ hath done for us.

He has already defeated sin and death!
He has already paid the penalty on the cross!
He has already saved you and all those that quote out loud Romans 10:9 and believe it in their heart.

And God knows your heart. He knows whether you believe it or not. Always plucking a mans heart strings.
He has the power through faith alone to turn a sinner into a saint overnight and you better believe it!

But my point and answer is. Yes, you can be "out of fellowship" with God and still be saved later on. Provided you believe He exists. And if you do, you are at least on this forum or in a church or Christian fellowship somewhere. Unless you have a real personal healthy relationship with Jesus and the Father. I envy such people is that bad? I waffle too much but yeah brother! We are already saved, theres no sin you can commit that can separate us from our Saviour redeeming us!

What was it even old saint Paul said himself in Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.,

It is not through your good works that you are saved brother. It's through the grace and love of God. It doesn't matter if you are the wickedest, most sadistic, twisted, hells angel biker everyday regular sinner. If that person believes that Jesus is alive today and God knows he believes it in his heart then that person will be saved come the day of rapture it's as simple as that.

A sin is a sin is a sin to God. It don't matter if your only sin in life is being a week late on a library book to genocide.

Luke 18:13 And the Roman tax collector, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

This roman tax collector man. He was a publican. He never had any fellowship with God what so ever did he? But he believed that God is and thats what's ultimately going to save him. Maybe not a good example.

But God bless you bro is a real pleasure to meet you. I hope I have helped you to see things clearer.

Feel free to quote me yourself or anyone. I hope I got my meaning across and hope to hear that I'm right from some of you.

You don't have to have a personal relationship with God the Father or our Lord Jesus. Actually you DO have to have a personal relationship with God the Father and our Lord Jesus lol We really should. And many of us here sure do yearn for it. I know I do. But you can be "out of fellowship" with God and still be saved Yes! I should know. I'm living proof.

God bless you everyone.

Rudi.

DiscipleDave · Jan 12, 2015

Rudimental said:

There are so many things wrong with this doctrine i don't even know where to start. "It doesn't matter what sins you commit after you are Saved" Really, so do you make void all the verses that say if you do not forgive your brother, then you are not forgiven. Do you make void the verses which teach if you hate your brother, then God is not in you? Do you make void the verses which teach you can be blotted out of the Book of Life? What about the verse :

I john 1:7 But IF (conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

But you say it doesn't matter what sins you commit, they are covered, which is contrary to what the Scriptures actually teach. Scriptures teaches IF we walk in the light as Jesus walked, then His blood cleanseth us from all sin, you say that you can walk in darkness all you want and are still cleansed by His Blood, this doctrine in not of God.

friend, it would behoove you to study and pray for the Truth to be revealed to you concerning this matter, your very soul depends on it. Because if you continue to believe doctrines that are contrary to sound Scriptures, then there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. i assure you Scriptures are True, they plainly teach us who will NOT enter into Heaven. They teach that if you have hate in your heart you will not enter into Heaven, if you have unforgiveness in your heart you will not enter into Heaven. You can claim with your mouth all you want that you are Saved, and covered by His Blood, but if you are not abiding in His Word, that is to say Living in it, you will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven ,no matter how loudly you proclaim to be Saved and under Grace, and under His Blood.
i will pray that you will pray and seek the Truth and study the Scriptures, your soul depends on it.

^i^

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

DiscipleDave said:

It is only on Judgment Day that one is judged either to be Saved or not Saved. Hence the reason it is mentioned several times in Scriptures that He who endures to the end shall be Saved. And all seven messages to the seven churches teach those who overcome. Paul teaches that he has not gotten the prize yet. That prize being Salvation.
Judgement Day is the Day that will determine who is and who is not SAVED. Those who endure to the end, shall remain SAVED. If they do not endure to the end, they shall be what the Bible calls, blotted out of the Book of Life, they shall not remain Saved.
A person can be Saved today fall out of fellowship with God tomorrow, repent get back into His Good Graces the day after that. It is Judgement Day that will decide whether a person is Saved or not Saved.

^i^

Wonder why scripture speaks as if we are already seated in heavenly places?

Jason0047 · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

I understand your confusion. During Christ's ministry, Jesus was the First Comforter that lived in the hearts of his disciples and those who believed in Him. Hence, why He said He would send them another Comforter. Yes, Jesus is a physical man, but he also is God, too. For Jesus said, where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is admist them. Jesus also said,

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also. At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you." (John 14:17-20).

In fact, John the Baptist was the last great OT prophet, and he had the Holy Ghost since birth.

In addition, I know I said this before, but I want to stress the importance that Jesus appeared surprised that Nicodemus did not know about how someone should be born again. If your interested, here is a short clip from the "Gospel of John" film (Take verbatim from the "Good News Translation" GNT) that will hopefully makes things a little clearer here at YouTube.

[video=youtube;kesyd1H2osQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kesyd1H2osQ[/video]

Side Note:

This is not what Jesus really looked like. He is not white or European, and he did not have long hair. Nobody knows what he rreally looked like. But Jesus was Jewish and would have been darker in skin color.

DiscipleDave · Jan 12, 2015

DiscipleDave said:

peacefulbeliever said:

Are you sitting in Heavenly places? Is it not written no man has ascended up to the third Heaven except Jesus. We are not sitting in Heavenly places (physically). Because we are not in Heaven. Spiritually speaking we are sitting in Heavenly places anytime we are in the presence of His Angels or Him. Also Is it not written we are ONE with the Father and Jesus. If that is True, then WE are indeed sitting in Heavenly places, because the Father is there and Jesus is there, and we are ONE with them, therefore there as well. i speak spiritually not physically. Does that answer your question or were you being sarcastic?

^i^

BradC · Jan 12, 2015

I want some of you baptismal regeneration people to tell me what the following washing is an illustration of when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples. It was very important to the Lord to do this with His disciples. Here it is in its entirety...

John 13:3-17

3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part (joint participation) with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

veryelect · Jan 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Well, when we look at the Scriptures we have to be very careful to not see something that we would want to see and or that is not there. For there is no verse or set of verses that specifically state that we can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. On the contrary, the Scriptures strongly suggest otherwise. For God is the source of Salvation, Light, and Life.. Sin causes a separation between us and God; And we can see a connection between having fellowship with the Lord and eternal life within His Word.

Sin is Separation from God:

Isaiah 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Micah 3:4

Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.

Ezekiel 39:23-24

And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them

Isaiah 1:15

And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Deuteronomy 31:17-18

Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Proverbs 1:28 CJB and Proverbs 1:29

Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord

Isaiah 57:17 ESV

Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.

Proverbs 15:29

The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Deuteronomy 32:19-20 KJ2

And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.

John 9:31 ESV

We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Job 27:8-9 GNV

For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?

Zechariah 7:13 KJ2

Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.

Ezekiel 8:17-18 NLT

Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.

Jeremiah 14:10-12

Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.

Isaiah 58:9 HCSB

At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,

Proverbs 21:13

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

Psalm 66:18

If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me

Psalm 34:15-16

The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

If you will notice the last verse in the list above, you will see that the Lord is against them that do evil. Also, if you look at Jeremiah 14:10-12 within the list, you will also take note that those who wander away God will not accept. In fact, sin being separation from God is not a new concept. For it was Adam and Eve's sin that separated them from God whereby they and all off their offspring (i.e. the entire human race) would need a Savior.

God is Salvation, Light, and Life:

#1. God is Salvation:
(Isaiah 12:2) (Exodus 15:2) (Psalm 27:1) (Psalm 118:14) (Revelation 7:10) (Jonah 2:9) (Acts 4:12).

How can you have Salvation if you do not have God?

#2. God is Light:
(1 John 1:5) (James 1:17) (Psalm 27:1) (Psalm 36:9) (1 Timothy 6:16) (Isaiah 60:19) (John 1:4) (John 1:9) (John 8:12) (John 9:5) (John 12:35-36) (Revelation 21:23) (Revelation 22:5).

How can you have Light if you are in darkness without God?

#3. God is Life:
(John 1:4) (John 5:21) (John 5:26) (John 6:33) (John 6:51) (John 6:57) (John 10:28) (John 11:25) (John 14:6) (John 17:3) (1 John 1:1-2) (1 John 5:11-12) (1 John 5:20) (Acts 3:15) (Romans 5:21) (1 Corinthians 15:45) (Colossians 3:4).

How can you have Spiritual Life if you are without God?

Fellowship with God = Eternal Life:

He That Has the Son Has Life And He That Does Not Have the Son Does Not Have Life:

1 John 5:11-12 says,
"And this is the record, that God hath given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

Did you catch that? It says we have eternal life but this life is in the Son. For he (anyone) who has the Son has life. However, anyone who does not have the Son does not have life. The words "eternal life" and "life" here are obviously tied to salvation. How so?

Well, John 3:16-17 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

In other words, those in this world who hear the gospel, or those who seek it might be saved. For whosever believes in him will have everlasting life; For that is the connection in how one might be saved.

Besides, how can you be saved and not have eternal life?

God Alone Has Immortality:

1 Timothy 6:16 says,
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Christ (God) only has immortality. To be immortal means one has "eternal life." So no one is immortal without Jesus Christ because only He alone possesses immortality or eternal life. There is no verse that says men are naturally immortal; And only those who are saved have everlasting life (John 3:16-17).

A Connection Between Life and Fellowship With God:

John 17:3 says,
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Here we see that "life eternal" is connected with knowing the one true God ---> Jesus Christ. Knowing someone implies that you are having fellowship with them.

The Scriptures also say,

"(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." (1 John 1:2-3).

"If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth." (1 John 1:6).

And all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).

We also learn in the Scriptures that knowing him is tied to the power of His resurrection, too.

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Philippians 3:10-11).

All the Seed of Abraham will be Justified "In" the Lord:

In fact, Isaiah 45:25 says, "In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified." For Galatians 3:29 says, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." In other words, if you are a true believer (that is saved), you are of the seed of Abraham and an heir according to the Promise. Yet, Isaiah 45:25 that only all those who are of the seed of Israel shall be justified by being IN the Lord.

Conclusion:

So can you be out of fellowship with God and still be saved? No. Most definitely not. "You were at one time were far off, but now you are made near by the blood of Christ." (Ephesians 2:13). For what fellowship has Light with Darkness? What fellowship does righteousness have with unrighteousness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For we are to have no felllowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather reprove them (Ephesians 5:11). For... "if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his son cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

You have to study the Bible to understand the question you ask. But overall it is as simple as this:
The devil comes at the sixth trump, CHRIST returns at the Seventh Trump. When the devil gets here, he will pretend to be CHRIST. If for any reason, you follow the devil (for example believing he is CHRIST come to rapture you out of here), then you won't make the first resurrection. Since you didn't know Truth, you at least get your chance in the Millennium. But beware, the Millennium is a tough Iron Rod discipline road to go. And as far as what GOD thinks about those that don't care about Truth, here is what HE says (and where HE says having pleasure in unrighteousness, how much more unrighteous can you get than worshiping satan).

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Nick01 said:

I think the answer has to be "No", but not necessarily for the exact same reasons Jason cites.

Simply put, to be 'saved' is to be 'in Christ'. This is the essential underpinning of Paul's theology - we are united with Christ in his death, in order to be raised with him in his glory. His Spirit, the Counselor he promised, dwells in us as a down payment of that promise. By this, we call our heavenly Father 'Abba', and we can boldly approach the throne of heaven by the blood of Christ, our High Priest and Mediator.

To be saved is to be in Christ, and thus in the closest fellowship with God, apparent now, but fully realised later. But this fellowship is based on CHRIST DWELLING IN US, not on our own adherence to the covenant (which is why Israel failed). Having said that, "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

What reasons are you referring to, my friend? I am curious.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

veryelect said:

I am actually wondering how many people here who voted "yes" in the poll actually read my original post and considered the verses I proposed. Did you read my post and look at the verses before replying? Also, telling me that I have to study the Bible is a condescending type statement. It is insulting. For I have studied the Bible on this topic and understand it just fine.

As for denying the Mid or Post Trib Rapture and not believing in the Biblical view of the Pre-Trib Rapture: Well, for one, this is an off topic discussion. Two, people who miss out on the Pre-Trib Rapture are the ones who will go thru the Tribulation and have to go thru the Millennium. For it is the only view that matches up with all the clues in Scripture. The Mid and Post Trib views do not make any sense. They cannot physically happen. There is a population problem with the Mid Trib View because of the many deaths of Christians with the enforcement of the Mark. The Post Trib view does work because we already see the saints crying out for vengeance at the fifth seal with them being killed by the Antichrist. The Post Trib view also ignores the Wrath of God being poured out with the vial or bowl judgments. For Thessalonians 1:10 says we are devilered from the Wrath to come.

Also, your quote of 2 Thessalonians 2 actually refutes OSAS, too. Look at verse 12. It says they had pleasure in unrighteousness. What is unrighteousness? 1 John 5:17 says, "All unrighteousness is sin." In other words, if you are an OSAS proponent who has pleasure in unrighteousness or sin, you are not believing the truth and will be damned. Why? For doing evil. It's Morality 101. Good guys do good; And bad guys do bad. You shouldn't need a Bible to tell you that.

But go back and look at the verses in my original post on one not having fellowship and still having salvation. In other words, please reply to the verses I brought up.

Side Note 1:

Those in the Millennium are not those who do not care about truth. That would be the damned. If you are in the Millennium, that simply means God loves you enough to have you in His Kingdom. Yes, believers will be re-tested at the End of the Millennium, but this is a final test to weed out all those who do not want God. There are also those who love God greatly in the Millennium, including Abraham and other patriarchs.

Side Note 2:

Please do not reply on the topic of the Rapture and the Millennium. Please reply in the appropriate thread and provide a link to it. If you reply with a good case with Scripture, I will consider in replying.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

BradC said:

When you read Colossians 2:10 you also have to read Colossians 3:5-9 that says,

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;"

This is text above cannot be cut out of your Bible reading when looking at Colossians 2:10. It says to the believers to mortify their members in regards to fornication, coveteousness, idolatry, etc. For the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience. Yet, you are imply you can disobey God by doing horrible acts of sin and still be saved. For you are saying you are positioned in Christ and cannot be taken out of that position. But the Scriptures teach that sin still can separate a person from God. It's a basic Biblical concept that goes all the way back to the Garden.

Being seated in Christ in heavenly places only applies to those who are in Christ and who are not living in horrible unrepentant sin such as murder, lust, rape, hate, idolatry, theft, coveting, and drunkenness, etc. Nowhere is stated that believers who live in sin and who act evil are seated in Heavenly places.

Ephesians 5:27 is a promotion of living one's life in holiness. Why? Paul tells us not to be deceived into thinking that no unclean person, fornicator, whoremonger, etc. has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For the wrath of God is upon the children of disobedience.

"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them." (Ephesians 5:3-7).

I am not against those who repent and come back to the faith. But they have to repent of their backslidden and sinful ways. The son was sorry for what he did and desired to be a hired hand of his father. Oh, and no. Jesus parables all spoke of things that were spiritual. Physical death relates to spiritual death. In your case, physical death relates to something else in what you want it to say. For there are many other references to "death" in the Bible referring to a spirtually dead state. For example: Jesus said, "Let the dead bury their own dead." Also, the Scriptures talk about the widow who lives in pleasure is dead even while she is alive.

Ella85 · Jan 13, 2015

Jason, most people disagree yet you once again choose to continue your battle and argue the truth. Can you admit that you do not know everything?

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Edit:

Meant to say does NOT work. "The Post Trib View does not work..."

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Ella85 said:

I do not see what Omniscience has to do with this topic. Common basic sense tells us that if you do evil, you are evil. You don't need a Bible to tell you that. Folks should know that. If not, then they are evil and their hearts are darkened to the pleasure of their sin and or pride. Second, if you disagree, then why not discuss the actual passages that I brought up? You know, those passages I brought up that condemn a sin and still be saved type belief? Third, the Scriptures say that a believer will be guided into all truth. So we should be able to explain properly what the Bible is telling us.

Ella85 · Jan 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

What about everyone else, when they post, is what they say taken into consideration? I hope so.

Nick01 · Jan 13, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I don't know what point you're trying to drive at in terms of fellowship, or being out of fellowship, or moving outside of fellowship. To a certain extent you've posted a lot of Scripture which most people here agree with, but not all of your terms are clearly defined. Hence the word 'necessarily - I can't tell entirely from your OP whether I agree with your position, because its not entirely clear.

For the record - I don't think sinning per se is enough to break 'fellowship', if indeed one can be in Christ and then not in Christ. Christ is not simply a means through which we move to being without sin and thus in fellowship with God - he is the current and ongoing basis of that fellowship. That's not to say therefore we should keep sinning, but neither does that mean that someone our works have again become the basis of our fellowship, rather than being in Christ. There is a difference between those two things, and to discern the difference requires clarity.

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Ella85 said:

Well, I have replied to folks posting of Scripture within this thread many times. So I am not ignoring what they have to say with Scripture. Sure, are there some posts I glazed over because they were posting a bunch of points that were unbiblical? You bet. But the fact of the matter is that I did not ignore everybody completely in what they had written. I looked at the verses people proposed, whereas nobody has brought up 1 John 5:12 and John 17:3.

Hmmm.... I wonder why?

Jason0047 · Jan 13, 2015

Nick01 said:

If a believer murders, do you think God will convict them of that murder to repent of it? If the believer refuses to repent of that murder, do you think they are saved? What about other horrible sins such as hating, lying, lusting, coveting, idolatry, and drunkenness? Are any of these sins any different?

In other words, if God knows a person is going to repent, then there is no need for the Lord to leave a person. But if they refuse to repent, then why would God live inside a rebellious person?

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Yes.

No.

I don't know.

Other (Please explain)

Senior Member

BradC

Guest

Senior Member

Rudimental

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

BradC

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned