Catholic Heresy (for the record)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

wanting2believe

Guest
#61
#61
"It is so sad to see the Word of God compromised by tradition contrary to the Word of God! All those who hold onto traditions over the Word of God and labeling it truth because of a false church are worshiping a FALSE CHRIST, a liar, Satan himself disguised"

See RoboOp.. when CHRISTIANS say things like the ones of quotes, that we are going to hell .. how can we not feel attacked.. I for one apologize for all the catholics who attack any "protestant" (I call them Christians because they are Christians)

Man that is sad, its so sad.. but since Im new here and just a young guy my word does not count....
 
S

StMichaelTheArchangel

Guest
#62
#62
hermanodaniel said:
Who gave us the Word of God? God did! It's His Word! He spoke it and it shall accomplish all His desires never returning void! Who assures us that the Word of God is indeed the Word of God? The Holy Ghost testifies that the Word is true. Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ! Who do we glorified by standing on the Word of God as the final authority? Jesus Christ! How do we treat teachings that are not in the Word of God? As if Jesus never said it. It is heresy a lie from the pit of hell. God did not utter it!!! Why is the Church the pillar of all truth? The Church glorifies the Word of God and only the Word of God! What Church is the true Church? The Church that holds the Word of God above all! What makes up the Church of God? The believers who hold unto the Word of God above all! How does one know the truth of God? Faith! How does one acquire? Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God! How come the Word of God is always emphasized over and over and over? Hence the Word OF GOD, again Jesus Christ is the WORD OF GOD!
Click to expand...

If its all God's word then why are there books removed from the canon? There should have been at least 72 books not 66. The Protestant Reformers removed at least 8 books from the inspired word of God.

The Catholic canon is 72, the Orthodox canon is 76.

This was a bad mistake because the books it removed were most edifying. One such book they removed which is notable is called the "Wisdom of Sirach", you should go and read it. Along with the Wisdom of Solomon and the rest of the Deuterocanonical books.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Red33

Red33

Banned
#63
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#63
1still_waters said:
And there it is. Trying to put a frogs hair distance between what we say you do and what you actually do.

Read my later posts in the thread. You all DO defiy Mary, no matter what adjective you use to distance yourselves from such fact.
Click to expand...
You won't stop them from thinking about Mary the way they do because it has been ingrained in them since a very young age. What we do is keep Christ before them and magnify Him, the cross and His death, burial and resurrection. When we keep that before them we are keeping the gospel before them and having them look at the gospel. Then we can relate to the fact that Mary was chosen among women, as a virgin to bare the Son of God and to name Him Jesus. You bring in the how Jesus was sought out and worshiped as a babe and continue to show how He grew in grace and wisdom and later was about His Father's business and slowly separated from His earthly family to do the work of His Father in the gospel of John. You can show how Mary so often pondered things that He said and did and never quite sure of those things and what they meant. Then you can relate the gospels and the central theme of each one and how they relate to Christ.

The word of God is sent to sanctify and set people apart unto the truth. To discredit Mary does nothing but cause reaction and division because of the deep seated root of admiration they have for her in their heart. We must always draw attention unto Christ and little by little they will begin to see Christ high and lifted up and sitting at the right hand of God with no mention of Mary. Once we show them that Jesus Christ was not only the Son of God and the Son of man but also was God manifest in the flesh, the Holy Spirit will take these truths and begin to use them to minister Christ to their hearts and open their understanding to things they have never had. We need to feed them a little at a time to keep them hungry for God the same way we are feed and hunger after the things of God, not all at once but a little at a time, to create a capacity for more.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
#64
dscherck said:
Actually, you're just proving my point. You still don't know what we actually teach. You still assume we teach something else. We don't offer new sacrifices or re-sacrifice Jesus in the Eucharist. Nor do we depend on ourselves to save us, we depend on Christ.
Click to expand...

1. You claim you have the real blood and flesh of Christ, this you are sacrificing him again. It does not matter if you say you do not believe this. What you think you believe and reality is not true.


2. You do to depend on yourself. You depend on your work of taking the eucharist, acts of penance, your work of baptism, you depend on things you do. Depending on Christ is faith in his work on the cross. and that alone. Again what you say you believe and reality does not line up.
3. I do know what you teach, The problem is you do not know what you teach, if you did, you would not follow it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
StMichaelTheArchangel said:
If its all God's word then why are there books removed from the canon? There should have been at least 72 books not 66. The Protestant Reformers removed at least 8 books from the inspired word of God.

The Catholic canon is 72, the Orthodox canon is 76.

This was a bad mistake because the books it removed were most edifying. One such book they removed which is notable is called the "Wisdom of Sirach", you should go and read it. Along with the Wisdom of Solomon and the rest of the Deuterocanonical books.
Click to expand...

If one wants a bible which contradicts itself. it is fine to have 72 or 76. But if one wants a bible which does not contradict itself then they will follow the 66.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#66
#66
1still_waters said:
This is from part of the Rosary prayer.

They call Mary, holy Queen, our life, our hope.

Jesus is the only holy one. Jesus is our only life. Jesus is our only hope.

I post this very short example because Catholics are very good at taking an 'accusation', then saying, "Hey we don't do that'." : Then giving an explanation that puts a frogs hair distance between what they say they do and what they were accused of. In essensce if there is only a frogs hairs distance, you're still kinda doing it!

Anyways this serves as a clear example that they DO treat Mary how we claim they DO treat Mary. They can't wiggle outta this one with a frogs hair distance argument.

The Hail, Holy Queen: Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley, of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus; O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

*
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure why I'm bothering with this since I don't know how or if this thread will be redacted at some future date, but here I go.

How often have we heard people refer to their children as their life? We are not inclined to take this literally. It doesn’t mean that their children have taken the place of God in their lives. It simply expresses how important their children are to them.

So with Mary. She is special but not because she has any super power of her own. She is our life because she is the channel the Father chose to bring us her Son. She is our sweetness and our hope for the same reason. We love her so much because she is God’s Mother. Such consideration of Mary does not diminish the reality of who her Son is; rather, it magnifies it. She is special because of how much more special he is. Or do we think that he doesn’t deserve a mother who could be our life, our sweetness, and our hope? Her soul and everything about her magnifies the Lord.

Reference: In the prayer "Hail, Holy Queen," we call Mary "our life, our sweetness, and our hope." Is this proper? | Catholic Answers

“Blessed Rosary of Mary, sweet chain linking us to God”
Click to expand...
This one is actually very easy. The closer we draw to Mary the closer we draw to her Son and hence to God since Mary always points towards her Son.

39. What has been said so far makes abundantly clear the richness of this traditional prayer, which has the simplicity of a popular devotion but also the theological depth of a prayer suited to those who feel the need for deeper contemplation.

The Church has always attributed particular efficacy to this prayer, entrusting to the Rosary, to its choral recitation and to its constant practice, the most difficult problems. At times when Christianity itself seemed under threat, its deliverance was attributed to the power of this prayer, and Our Lady of the Rosary was acclaimed as the one whose intercession brought salvation.
Click to expand...
The situation being referred to here is not literal spiritual salvation (as in saving a soul), but to physical salvation from enemies, this is apparent when you bold the whole sentence instead of just one specific portion. The cases of physical salvation referred to are ones like the Battle of Lepanto where the entire fleet prayed the Rosary for victory over the Ottomans in battle, after the victory the Pope declared the anniversary of the battle the feast of Our Lady of Victory, and later this was changed to simply Our Lady of the Rosary.


From the earliest ages of the Catholic Church a Christian people, whether in time of triumph or more especially in time of crisis, has addressed prayers of petition and hymns of [b}praise[/b] and veneration to the Queen of Heaven. And never has that hope wavered which they placed in the Mother of the Divine King, Jesus Christ; nor has that faith ever failed by which we are taught that Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, reigns with a mother's solicitude over the entire world, just as she is crowned in heavenly blessedness with the glory of a Queen.
Click to expand...
First comes the praise portion. There are hymns praising Mary for her virtue which was in itself a miraculous grace from God. Now Mary reigns as Queen of Heaven because of her Sons position as the King which according to Hebrew practice makes her the Queen.

Again from Pope Pius XII. One they consider infallible.

"from her union with Christ she receives the royal right to dispose of the treasures of the Divine Redeemer's Kingdom;"

link-->Pope Pius XII on Mary's Queenship
Click to expand...
The treasures spoken of here are grace and they are poured out upon Earth by Christ on account of Mary's intercession.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#67
#67
eternally-gratefull said:

If one wants a bible which contradicts itself. it is fine to have 72 or 76. But if one wants a bible which does not contradict itself then they will follow the 66.
Click to expand...
I've never seen a contradiction in my 72 book canon.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
#68
SantoSubito said:
I've never seen a contradiction in my 72 book canon.
Click to expand...
Of course not. How would you. You depend on others to interpret for you so why would you see a contradiction?

Can you show me in leviticus where Moses is instructed to tell the children of Isreal to make penance for their sins?
 
PopClick

PopClick

Senior Member
#69
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
138
63
#69
StMichaelTheArchangel said:
My question to the Protestants is if the Bible contains the truth of God, how are you so sure of its authenticity?

what is it that convinces you Protestants that the Bible is the Infallible Word of God? Just because somebody told you so?

But how would we know if it really was the Word of God and not a counterfeit?

Catholics and Orthodox do not just blindly believe in what somebody tells us is the Truth. We don't just blindly believe in a holy book of our liking. We hold that the Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), and therefore we have solid evidence of where the Truth of God is and of the Bible. With the Church, we have ample evidence which backs up the Bible as Truth because the Church made the Bible. The Church is what gave us the New Testament canon of Scripture. It is what selected the 27 books of the NT. Therefore, if you don't trust it you cannot trust the Bible.

Without the Church though, you may as well believe in whatever 'holy' book you come across, or whatever anyone else teaches (A Muslim or a Buddhist) since you since you don't have a pillar of truth to walk on. Go ahead, pick up a Koran or any other holy book, they're all the same right? So where is the proof that one of them is the true Word of God? All of them speak the same thing, "pick me, I am the Truth".
Click to expand...
So... I shouldn't believe anyone who tells me that the Bible is the truth... unless they're wearing a funny hat? :confused:

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#70
#70
eternally-gratefull said:
Of course not. How would you. You depend on others to interpret for you so why would you see a contradiction?

Can you show me in leviticus where Moses is instructed to tell the children of Isreal to make penance for their sins?
Click to expand...
Leviticus is lousy with them. Just look at every time God prescribed a sacrifice for sin, or anytime someone fasts and wears sack-cloth because of their sin.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#71
#71
What i don't understand is why Catholics want to be labeled Christian as well to begin with. You're Catholic, so why not leave it at that? Why this fight to force yourself into Christianity? You obviously maintain beliefs that are contrary to traditional Christianity so why not just say a Catholic is a Catholic? Why this need to be accepted within Christianity?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
#72
SantoSubito said:
Leviticus is lousy with them. Just look at every time God prescribed a sacrifice for sin, or anytime someone fasts and wears sack-cloth because of their sin.
Click to expand...
yet leviticus is Gods laws to them, and what they are supposed to do when they did sin to recieve atonement.

you say it is lousy? why? it was there law.. so why were they adding to the law and doing penance when it was never commanded?

there is but one contradiction
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#73
#73
This is to address the "Advocate" portion people have been arguing about.

An important that you have to keep in mind is that all the Marian Antiphons are translations from the official Latin versions. In Latin the Salve Regina is this:

Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae;
vita, dulcedo et spes nostra, salve.
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae.
Ad te suspiramus gementes et flentes
in hac lacrimarum valle.
Eia ergo, advocata nostra,
illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte.
Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui,
nobis post hoc exsilium ostende.
O clemens, o pia, o dulcis Virgo Maria.

The bolded portion is what people are disputing. Literally translated it would be "I call or summon" but translated in context without being adopted wholesale into English (where it has a different meaning) it would be "One called to aid", "an attendant (a friend who supports)", or "witness/supporter".
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#74
#74
eternally-gratefull said:
yet leviticus is Gods laws to them, and what they are supposed to do when they did sin to recieve atonement.

you say it is lousy? why? it was there law.. so why were they adding to the law and doing penance when it was never commanded?

there is but one contradiction
Click to expand...
Lousy as in littered with, I'm not sure if using Lousy in that way is a Southernism but it may be. Penance requires repentance, and penance is a voluntary self-imposed or prescribed suffering or sacrifice because of one's sin.

Most people desire to pray more or read the Bible more after they've sinned and felt sorrow for those that sin (repentance) that extra prayer and Bible reading is then penance.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
#75
SantoSubito said:
Lousy as in littered with, I'm not sure if using Lousy in that way is a Southernism but it may be. Penance requires repentance, and penance is a voluntary self-imposed or prescribed suffering or sacrifice because of one's sin.

Most people desire to pray more or read the Bible more after they've sinned and felt sorrow for those that sin (repentance) that extra prayer and Bible reading is then penance.
Click to expand...
1. Again, it is not mentioned in leviticus. Something this major which is required to remove sin would have been mentioned in leviticus if it was required. It was Gods law to the nation of Israel.
2. Then what your saying is that we must do something like extra prayer or read the bible or whatever to have that sin forgiven??
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#76
#76
eternally-gratefull said:
1. Again, it is not mentioned in leviticus. Something this major which is required to remove sin would have been mentioned in leviticus if it was required. It was Gods law to the nation of Israel.
2. Then what your saying is that we must do something like extra prayer or read the bible or whatever to have that sin forgiven??
Click to expand...
We've been over this before doing penance is not a requisite for receiving forgiveness. The point though is that God always required something from Israel for forgiveness, usually a sacrifice. In the NT the nature of penance (and of forgiveness) is changed because of Christ, penance itself is the outward reality of an interior disposition.

For example, my neighbor would most likely forgive me if by some accident I broke one of his windows, but even if he forgave me that does not mean I should not pay for his window.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#77
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#77
Mary was a virgin, but she wasn’t perfect. I would like to believe most Catholics don’t believe that she was perfect.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#78
#78
resurrection33 said:
Mary was a virgin, but she wasn’t perfect. I would like to believe most Catholics don’t believe that she was perfect.
Click to expand...
Well Catholics have to believe in the Immaculate conception De Fide, which includes the belief that Mary was preserved by God's grace from sin for her entire life.

If a Catholic willfully rejects a De Fide dogma they in effect excommunicate themselves.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#79
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#79
SantoSubito said:
Well Catholics have to believe in the Immaculate conception De Fide, which includes the belief that Mary was preserved by God's grace from sin for her entire life.

If a Catholic willfully rejects a De Fide dogma they in effect excommunicate themselves.
Click to expand...
I doubt that.
 
H

humblemark57

Guest
#80
#80
Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.