Catholic persicution.

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phil112

Guest
Nor should he. That's why the phrase is "Tu est Petri."
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What does that have to do with anything?

One thing that has always mystified me about catholics is why they choose Peter over Paul. God chose Paul, Jesus taught Paul personally, and all that was done so the gentile would have access to the knowledge of salvation from God. Paul had to straighten Peter out when Peter acted stupid. Yet Peter has more credibility to a catholic than Paul. Not only does it not make sense, it isn't bible.
 
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What does that have to do with anything?

One thing that has always mystified me about catholics is why they choose Peter over Paul. God chose Paul, Jesus taught Paul personally, and all that was done so the gentile would have access to the knowledge of salvation from God. Paul had to straighten Peter out when Peter acted stupid. Yet Peter has more credibility to a catholic than Paul. Not only does it not make sense, it isn't bible.
Paul wasn't the one Christ asked to feed the sheep and lambs. Paul didn't call the First Council, nor was it Paul who decided things that day. It was Peter each time. Peter was the custodian of the Church. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles.
 
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phil112

Guest
Paul wasn't the one Christ asked to feed the sheep and lambs. Paul didn't call the First Council, nor was it Paul who decided things that day. It was Peter each time. Peter was the custodian of the Church. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles.
Man-made doctrine......you go ahead and bet your eternal destination on that. I'll stay obedient to scripture, thank you very much.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
I prefer my efforts to bear fruit, not to be empty.
 
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Man-made doctrine......you go ahead and bet your eternal destination on that. I'll stay obedient to scripture, thank you very much.
I prefer my efforts to bear fruit, not to be empty.
Again I find it so refreshing to find Protestants who think I am going to Hell, all the while I think they are going to Heaven. What fun it is to be among you.
 
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StoneThrower

Guest
on this site I have seen the most perfect example of radical Protestantism. It is truly frightening to see so many men and women lead into err by the teachings proposed my martin Luther and promulgated by the following heretical "reformers." I pray for every soul that has been lead astray that they would be brought back to the loving arms of the mother church. I also pray that suck teachings would be eradicated from the face of the Earth.

I am ok with being outside the mother church (small c on purpose as its no church at all)
I am also ok with being dammed to hell by your organization since it doesn’t speak on the authority of the word of God.
I am also ok with not being part of an organization that wants to include Islam in its mist.
I am ok with being outside The Great Whore of Babylon and an antichrist.
Were glad your hear though, that we get to pray for you while you hear the gospel!
Would you consider yourself a good person?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Paul wasn't the one Christ asked to feed the sheep and lambs. Paul didn't call the First Council, nor was it Paul who decided things that day. It was Peter each time. Peter was the custodian of the Church. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles.
Still it was James who was the leader of the church in Jerusalem. Peter never liked the Gentiles he considered them to be unclean hence the vision the Lord sent him. Paul's ministry was to the gentiles.

God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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StoneThrower

Guest
Biblical requirements for salvation. 1. repent and believe. 2. be baptized for the remission of sins. 3. remain a part of the body of Christ by continued works.
Thats not what your church teaches!!! You forgot works.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Still it was James who was the leader of the church in Jerusalem. Peter never liked the Gentiles he considered them to be unclean hence the vision the Lord sent him. Paul's ministry was to the gentiles.

God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes that's right but don't forget that the vision renewed his thinking. Peter said himself that God told him not to call anyone common or unclean.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
It wasn't until the First Vatican Council in 1870 that the Roman Catholic Church formally asserted as doctrine that Jesus Christ established the papacy with the apostle Peter and that the Bishop of Rome as Peter's successor bore the supreme authority (primacy) over the whole church.

Obviously, both Eastern Orthodox churches and Protestant denominations deny both of these claims as do I. History indicates that even the concept of papal rule of the whole church was established by slow and painful stages with Leo the first to attempt a biblical and theological bases of the papal claim.

Rome was prominent for the reason that it was the imperial capital with the largest and wealthiest assembly and despite persecutions of all kinds, the Roman congregation was large for its day making it influential.

The reason why early Christian writers, beginning with Irenaeus in the second century, refer to Peter and Paul as founders of the church in Rome and to subsequent bishops as successors of the apostles is because roots were important due to the fact that gnostic teachers were asserting a secret tradition arising from Christ and Gnosticism and orthodox Christianity were for a time locked in a serious struggle for supremacy that only one would survive. Many catholic Christians felt that a list of bishops traced back to Peter and Paul was a sure means of safeguarding the apostolic message. That's the reason why they were created and maintained.

Modern RCC doctrines surrounding the papal office did not yet even exist and no one, church leader or secular author, ever asserted that they did. The Bishop of Rome had honor yes but jurisdiction outside of Rome: no.

Rome's growing influence was a part of the increasingly complex church structure to emerge in the third and fourth centuries. Church organization developed in two important ways: (1) the authority of church councils and (2) the authority of certain bishops over other bishops.

Councils arose when churches in various areas began sending their pastors (or bishops) to meetings to discuss common problems. These were at first irregular, but during the third century these provincial councils began to meet annually. In theory, the bishops from the churches were all equal, but in practice this was seldom the case. The pastors of the churches established by the apostles possessed an informal spiritual prestige, and the bishops from the larger cities exercised authority in certain matters over the pastors from smaller towns. As the church grew it adopted, quite naturally, the structure of the empire.

This meant that the provincial town of the empire became the episcopal town of the church and above the provinces in the empire was the metropolis, so bishops in these larger cities soon supervised the bishops in the provinces of that area. Finally, the empire was divided into several major regions, so within the church, people came to think of the church at Rome exercising authority in Italy, Carthage in North Africa, Alexandria in Egypt, Antioch in Syria, and so on.

As the churches within the province thrust out into the countryside, usually through a preaching tour of the bishop, other churches were established to meet the needs of the converts. At first these churches were cared for by clergy sent out from the city. Ministers who served them, however, were not bishops. They were called "priests" from presbyter, the Greek word for "elder." These priests in the country parishes were consecrated and controlled by the city bishop, but they could administer the sacraments.

Thus, as the fourth century began, the catholic churches were establishing general policies by regular regional councils of bishops and handling day-to-day affairs under the oversight of bishops in each area. General councils of the church arose only after Constantine's conversion. To settle major issues troubling the churches the emperor convened synods of bishops from a wide area. Arles, in 314, was a general council of the churches in the West, and Nicaea, in 325, the first General Council of the whole church. The decrees of these and later councils became the law of the church.

This is how the bishop of Rome soared to major importance on the wings of these developments. The Council of Nicea recognized the bishops of Alexandria, Antioch, and Rome as preeminent in their own areas. Jerusalem was granted an honorary primacy. Thus, by 325 the policy of patriarchates, that is, the administration of church affairs by bishops from three or four major cities, was confirmed by conciliar action.

It was Bishop Damasus (366-384) who first stated "Although the East sent the apostles, yet because of the merit of their martyrdom, Rome has acquired a superior right to claim them as citizens" as the prelude to Leo's grasp for ultimate power of the papacy claiming a dynasty of Peter the Prince of the Church that never existed before.

And for good reason, the Gospels make clear that preeminence among the followers of Christ was not to be according to the pattern of the princes of the world who exercise lordship and authority. Furthermore, Peter continued to be notoriously unstable. Even in the Matthew 16:23 passage Jesus rebuked him and called him "Satan" for not understanding "the things that be of God" and Peter denied his Lord in the moment of crisis. Paul criticized him as an unreliable disciple. Etc... etc... etc... Peter was not the "custodian of the Church." He was, like others, an apostle. But Leo's theory assumes that the grant of authority was not to Peter personally but to his office as bishop of Rome and that identification of authority with a particular office is nowhere in the text.

Leo prevailed because a barbarian attack on Italy made the imperial court at Ravenna desperate for the support of any authority that might help to hold the empire in the West together. Thus, in 445 the Emperor Valentinian issued a decree instructing Aetius, the Roman commander in Gaul, to compel the attendance at the papal court of any bishop who refused to come voluntarily. The emperor's edict turned Leo's claim into law.

The imperial document read: "As the primacy of the Apostolic See is based on the title of the blessed Peter, prince of the episcopal dignity, on the dignity of the city of Rome, and on the decision of the Holy Synod, no illicit steps may be taken against this See to usurp its authority. For the only way to safeguard peace among the churches everywhere is to acknowledge its leadership universally."

If history shows anything, it's that the power hungry always seem to find a way to exploit trouble into opportunity to advance themselves. And Leo was power hungry and like so many manipulators of troubled times successful too.

Of course, he started a schism in the process that continues to this day.

"Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. "But the greatest among you shall be your servant." -Matthew 23:11


Paul wasn't the one Christ asked to feed the sheep and lambs. Paul didn't call the First Council, nor was it Paul who decided things that day. It was Peter each time. Peter was the custodian of the Church. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Lol @ Malachi. I had a good laugh reading your post. Sure, Luther was a piece of work but then so are a lot of Catholics.

I'm not sure how loving the arms of "the mother church" are when its headed by people like Pope John XII who was so depraved a synod had to be commenced on account of his depravity. Witnesses were called and the crimes of the pope established, from fornication with numerous women who were named, to blinding Benedict his spiritual father, to the murder of a cardinal, to toasting Satan at St. Peter's altar. Before a verdict was issued; however, he was killed by a husband who found the unrepentant pontiff in bed having sex with his wife. You can find Pope John XII on the official Roman Catholic list of popes each known as "His holiness, Vicar of Christ."

Do you really want to get a non-Lutheran educated Protestant started? I'm normally gentle with Catholics on this site; however, I don't take kindly to people who want to eradicate me and my Christian epistemology "from the face of the earth."


on this site I have seen the most perfect example of radical Protestantism. It is truly frightening to see so many men and women lead into err by the teachings proposed my martin Luther and promulgated by the following heretical "reformers." I pray for every soul that has been lead astray that they would be brought back to the loving arms of the mother church. I also pray that suck teachings would be eradicated from the face of the Earth.
 
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StoneThrower

Guest
What do you think repent, be baptized, and obey God are?
Baptism is an ordinance, it is symbolic of the new birth that has all ready taken place, our Lord commands us to do it, it to show the world we are his and have been bought with a price, but it doesn't save you! The thief on the cross wasn't baptized yet Christ said today you will be with be in paradise.
Salvation is by repentance and faith and thats all.
 
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StoneThrower

Guest
Again I find it so refreshing to find Protestants who think I am going to Hell, all the while I think they are going to Heaven. What fun it is to be among you.
One of the main reasons is your understanding of salvation and the power of God. You have a pitiful God that is not powerful enough to save anyone on his own, and needs the assistance of man for salvation to occur.

What an insult to the one that created you, that he would take on a body of dust that he created, and put up with abuse by that creation, suffer and die at the hands of it to save it, and then have them turn around and say thats not enough, in our self righteousness we are going to insert our selves in the process that we can steel some of your glory.

God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble.
 
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Baptism is an ordinance, it is symbolic of the new birth that has all ready taken place, our Lord commands us to do it, it to show the world we are his and have been bought with a price, but it doesn't save you! The thief on the cross wasn't baptized yet Christ said today you will be with be in paradise.
Salvation is by repentance and faith and thats all.
to believe that any of the sacraments are mere symbol is to greatly undermine the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
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One of the main reasons is your understanding of salvation and the power of God. You have a pitiful God that is not powerful enough to save anyone on his own, and needs the assistance of man for salvation to occur.

What an insult to the one that created you, that he would take on a body of dust that he created, and put up with abuse by that creation, suffer and die at the hands of it to save it, and then have them turn around and say thats not enough, in our self righteousness we are going to insert our selves in the process that we can steel some of your glory.

God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble.
this view of God is in fact the pitiful... our God is mighty enough to bring all to salvation, but loving enough to give us the opportunity to be involved in our own salvation. God wants a relationship, not robots.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Again I find it so refreshing to find Protestants who think I am going to Hell, all the while I think they are going to Heaven. What fun it is to be among you.
My what a holier than thou attitude! I only care what the bible teaches about Christ and salvation by grace.

I do have a great concern for Catholics who give equal authority to church tradition and scripture. I am concerned that they are like Simon the sorcerer who had a knowledge of God but never had any heart belief. Simon was very religious on the outside and very far from God on the inside. Desiring the image of power by not wanting any true relationship with God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Jesus is holier than thou
Follow him
men are not holy
ignore them
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Luther said
Follow God's word and obey his commandments
If someone is not doing that it is your duty to tell them that
if you take it wrong, well, at least we tried.

if you speak without a bible verse, it means you dont have the truth, pretty simple.

Thy word is truth
opinions kill people
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
By the way sarcasm is of another spirit...
Jesus never uses sarcasm

and if we are not living like Jesus we need to repent

what I would say is
THANK YOU for telling me my fault
I will search the Bible and come out of BABYLON confusion some more!

lovely attitude, Jesus would give you all power in heaven and earth to do right

Worshipping idols in a church is not right
and teaching people it is right will get you in trouble

so
Just throw them away and take your bible and learn of Jesus the meek and lowly one.

6 If the lookout sees the sword coming but doesn't blow the trumpet to warn the people, when the sword comes and takes away any of them, they are taken away in their sin, but I'll hold the lookout responsible for their blood. 7 You, human one, I've made you a lookout for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear me speaking, you must give them warning from me. 8 If I pronounce a death sentence on wicked people, and you don't warn them to turn from their way, they will die in their guilt, but I will hold you responsible for their blood. 9 But suppose you do warn the wicked of their ways so that they might turn from them. If they don't turn from their ways, they will die in their guilt, but you will save your life. 10 You, human one, say to the house of Israel: This is what all of you are saying: "How our transgressions and our sins weigh on us! We waste away because of them. How can we live?" 11Say to them, This is what the LORD God says: As surely as I live, do I take pleasure in the death of the wicked? If the wicked turn from their ways, they will live. Turn, completely turn from your wicked ways! Why should you die, house of Israel? 12 You, human one, say to your people: The righteousness of the righteous doesn't rescue them when they begin to sin. Nor does the wickedness of the wicked make them stumble if they turn from their wickedness. If the righteous sin, their righteousness won't protect them. 13 Even if I've told the righteous they will live, none of their righteous deeds will be remembered if they trust in their righteousness and do wrong. They will die because of their evil deeds. 14 And even if I have pronounced a death sentence on the wicked, if they turn from sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they return pledges, make restitution for robbery, and walk in life-giving ten commandments in order not to sin—they will live and not die. 16 None of the sins they've committed will be remembered against them. They've done what is just and right, and they will live. 17 Yet your people say, "My Lord's way doesn't measure up." Isn't it their ways that don't measure up? 18 When the righteous turn from their righteousness to do wrong, they will die because of it. 19 And when the wicked turn from their wickedness to do what is just and right, it is for that reason they will live. 20 Yet you say, "My Lord's way doesn't measure up." I judge each one of you according to your ways, house of Israel!

There goes once saved always saved and catholicism. (same thing)
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Isn't that just AWESOME ?!?