Catholicism vs Protestantism

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Catholics don't want to discriminate against Jews or force Jews to convert.

As I understand it, Catholic evangelism basically consists of having church services that are open to the public and things like television and internet broadcasts.

And both Jews and gentiles are invited to attend, watch, listen in, etc.
This is clear evidence of how Catholics have no sense of the need for salvation by grace through faith. They view salvation as a church function and not an individual responsibility.

God demands that men be saved. Those who will not receive Christ will continue to eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,451
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This is clear evidence of how Catholics have no sense of the need for salvation by grace through faith. They view salvation as a church function and not an individual responsibility.

God demands that men be saved. Those who will not receive Christ will continue to eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Agree. Individual repentance and salvation comes first. Only after this event does the saved person become integrated into the body, the Church.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Agree. Individual repentance and salvation comes first. Only after this event does the saved person become integrated into the body, the Church.
The cross is empty. The tomb has been opened and found to be empty.

Proclaim the resurrection of Christ. Trust in His finished work on Calvary. Salvation by grace through faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
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And we call Abraham father
We call Abraham a word meaning "the father of all nations" in respect to our Father not seen. Call no man on earth father.

If the Holy Spirit would of desired to name Abram according to what the eyes see .There would need no need to change his name . He was the father of one nation. His wife another. The signified understanding used in parables "our father not seen the. . . father of all".

Genesis 17:5King James Versio Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

They were worshiping the fathers Legion as as God . Unlike Paul after his conversion he worshiped the God of the fathers.

We must be careful how we hear and understand.

When Jesus was faced with that kind of opposition. He applied one the think not doctrines warning as a loving commandment to the believer. The unbelieving faithless Jew led by the oral traditions as a law of the father we rebuked that served a law of the fathers. Jesus called them a brood of vipers using poison to represent the false gospel of men.

They were calling men on earth as if together they made up the source of faith coming form our unseen father . In effect he informed them that if he created a bride from the lively stones of all nations as children of God "born again" that does make up the spiritual house .They as atheist fools refused to be born from above.

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Mathew 23:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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We call Abraham a word meaning "the father of all nations" in respect to our Father not seen. Call no man on earth father.
"Father of many nations" is not "in respect to our Father not seen". It's simply the meaning of the word.

They were worshiping the fathers Legion as as God . Unlike Paul after his conversion he worshiped the God of the fathers.
No, they were not "worshiping" the fathers.

The unbelieving faithless Jew led by the oral traditions as a law of the father we rebuked that served a law of the fathers.
Meaningless word salad, again.

They as atheist fools refused to be born from above.
They weren't atheists. They believed in the existence of God; atheists don't. I've explained this to you already. Why are you so resistant to learning even simple facts?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The Bible isn't written like a newspaper, imo.

I didn't say "must be Peter successor".
Peter may or may not have been in Rome. It doesn't follow from either condition that Peter had no successor.

I'll try to put it more simply.
Maybe Peter was in Rome. There may have been a successor, or there may not have been.

Maybe Peter wasn't in Rome. There may have been a successor, or there may not have been.
So you believe Peter have successor? And who is his successor?

How about other apostle, does they have successor top?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I'm not sure if Judaism is the right word, but Paul is definitely saying that the route is physical Israel, imo.

Romans 11: 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh, and may save some of them.
Is this verse mean judaism and Christian the same religion?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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That's true! But there's a lot of overlap, imo. From what I can see of Catholic evangelism in most places now, it's basically opening the doors of the church and saying, "come on in and check it out".

And that invitation is for everyone, Jew and gentile.


John 1: 46 Nathanael said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him,

"Come and see."




I don't understand what you are saying there.

This is a quote from one of vatican publication

Quote

1. A brief history of the impact of "Nostra aetate" (No.4) over the last 50 years

1. "Nostra aetate" (No.4) is rightly counted among those documents of the Second Vatican Council which have been able to effect, in a particularly striking manner, a new direction of the Catholic Church since then. This shift in the relations of the Church with the Jewish people and Judaism becomes apparent only when we recall that there were previously great reservations on both sides, in part because the

history of Christianity has been seen to be discriminatory against Jews, even including attempts at forced conversion (cf. "Evangelii gaudium", 248).


The background of this complex connection consists inter alia in an asymmetrical relationship: as a minority the Jews were often confronted by and dependent upon a Christian majority. The dark and terrible shadow of the Shoah over Europe during the Nazi period led the Church to reflect anew on her bond with the Jewish people.

End quote.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...i_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

So vatican admit about discrimination and force conversion in the past, I am not make the story up
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Catholics don't want to discriminate against Jews or force Jews to convert.

As I understand it, Catholic evangelism basically consists of having church services that are open to the public and things like television and internet broadcasts.

And both Jews and gentiles are invited to attend, watch, listen in, etc.

Than read this

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...i_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html


Quote

because the history of Christianity has been seen to be discriminatory against Jews, even including attempts at forced conversion (cf. "Evangelii

End quote

And some years ago I talk to ex catholic from Poland, she said when she young, she went to Catholic Church, and she heard story that Jews kill Jesus, Jews kill Christian etc, the story to stimulus hatred against Jews.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I believe it is mentioned in the Bible.
Acts 28: 16 When we entered into Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard, but Paul was allowed to stay by himself with the soldier who guarded him.

Maybe the guard thought that a large group of Christians, who would be Paul's friends, would be too dangerous.
But a group of Jewish leaders, who were suspicious of Paul already, would be less of a problem.
It doesn't say in the Bible, if so I believe Luke wrote it
 
Mar 28, 2016
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"Father of many nations" is not "in respect to our Father not seen". It's simply the meaning of the word.
Yes, the meaning of the word. . . Father of all the nations, a law not subject to change. It's simply the meaning of the word. Prior (Abram) one nation pertaining to the flesh of that nation. Big difference one nation and all .Walking by faith (eternal) or walking by sight .(temporal) Which Master today?

No, they were not "worshiping" the fathers.
Yes, they were "worshiping" the fathers as if they corrupted flesh and blood made up our one Father in heaven not seen .

They tried to make sola scriptural their nemesis to no effect.

The law of God as it is written continually got in the way of the law of the fathers.(oral traditions of men) Can't serve two masters .The things seen the temporal and that not seen Faith (eternal).

Paul the serial murderer before the total work over added some light to the picture..

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished Acts 22:3-5

Still working to make sola scriptura without effect as God's law .they set out to appy the cain foundation. Out of sight out of mind. ( atheist)

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Acts 24;5-6

The law of walking by sight, marvel not .

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24: 13-14

Paul worshiped the God whom the believing fathers worshiped. The atheistic Jew used to represent mankind. They worshiped the fathers seen as gods in the likeness of men .Its what atheist do make the word of God without effect.

Atheist as fools always shoot themselves in the foot.

Saul when around murdering Christians to fulfill his atheistic religious belief As in. . "out of sight out of mind " The Cain foundation". Just open ones eyes and murder the mis-perceived competition as those who do wrestles against flesh and blood (faithless) .

They weren't atheists. They believed in the existence of God; atheists don't. I've explained this to you already. Why are you so resistant to learning even simple facts?
.
They believed in the existence of their own god, the god of imagination of the own hearts. . . its desperately wicked beyond knowing. No God in their heart.

Christians believed in the existence of God; atheists don't.they create thir own like the Jews (law of the fathers.

I've explained this to you already. Why are you so resistant to learning even simple facts
I've explained this to you already. Why are you so resistant to learning even simple facts of the law of faith ?

You have offered the idea of dividing unbelief "atheism" from unbelief as if there was a limbo in between like partial atheist. The kingdom of the father of lies cannot be divided. no limbo in between/ .Faith or no faith. No man can serve two masters. Not even Jesus the Son of man who dared not be called Good master. having the same erthen body as us. We kown where he derived His power from .the eternal not seen

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We must be careful how we hear when seeking His approval according to that loving commandment. ...Homework is needed to seek the approval of the Teacher. The teacher gives us the proper tools. Its a open book test for trying the spirits to see if they are of our Father or of men( earthen vessels.)

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Atheists deny the one source of the faith of God (not seen) .Having their faith coming from the imagination of their own hearts after the the things seen. This show they are fools, atheists . philosophers with no circular reasoning tool as a law needed to complete the circuit. Unlike philosophy short circuited the tool of atheist. .Making all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) without effect.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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This is clear evidence of how Catholics have no sense of the need for salvation by grace through faith. They view salvation as a church function and not an individual responsibility.

God demands that men be saved. Those who will not receive Christ will continue to eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
do you believe that a person can be saved and remain separate from the body of Christ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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do you believe that a person can be saved and remain separate from the body of Christ?
And the formal church may not the body of Christ.

Not because the organization register as a church mean the body of Christ. 2 or 3 people worship together with honest doctrine is the body of Christ

If we reside where we are the only Christian and we worship Jesus, we are member of the body
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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The questions are then what is the body and how do we know they are the body?

do you believe that a person can be saved and remain separate from the body of Christ?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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We call Abraham a word meaning "the father of all nations" in respect to our Father not seen. Call no man on earth father.
Not "all nations", "many nations".
Abraham was visible, and you can see today the Nations that he fathered. A visible father of visible Nations

In addition to that, he is also the father of those who live by faith. And yes, that fatherhood is unseen.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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do you believe that a person can be saved and remain separate from the body of Christ?
If you describe the body of Christ as the catholic church then my answer is absolutely.

A man becomes part of the body of Christ by being born again by grace through faith according to the word of God. This is evidenced by the Holy Spirit witnessing with his spirit that he is a child of God.

No rituals no sacred relics and no traditions are necessary to be saved from sin. Gods grace is given to those who believe and trust Christ to save them from their sins. Christ saves because He is able and will to receive all who come to Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So you believe Peter have successor? And who is his successor?

How about other apostle, does they have successor top?
I don't know. Maybe Peter had a successor, maybe God has continued to call apostles.


I can accept the possibility that God continued to lead the church through councils of the apostles and elders like the one done in Acts 15. Or not.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Is this verse mean judaism and Christian the same religion?
No, I don't think it means that.

Also, the modern word Judaism hadn't been invented when Paul wrote the book of Romans.