Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Because jews think they zeal for true God

If It use g, It mean jews think they have zeal for pagan god
Romans 10: 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Well, this is what the translator is saying Paul said.

I can think of three options:

Paul is wrong. (I don't think either of us would agree with that!)

The translator is wrong.

The Jews actually did have a zeal of God (Capitalized).

***********
But again, this is an important issue. Maybe it would be a good idea to pause for a while, and you can ponder the situation. Them you can let me know which option you like best.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Well, the question is
"Did the Jews have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge?"
Like what It say oN the verse, the whole verse mean not true God, read verse 3.For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
113
Romans 10: 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Well, this is what the translator is saying Paul said.

I can think of three options:

Paul is wrong. (I don't think either of us would agree with that!)

The translator is wrong.

The Jews actually did have a zeal of God (Capitalized).
Romans 10: 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Well, this is what the translator is saying Paul said.

I can think of three options:

Paul is wrong. (I don't think either of us would agree with that!)

The translator is wrong.

The Jews actually did have a zeal of God (Capitalized).

***********
But again, this is an important issue. Maybe it would be a good idea to pause for a while, and you can ponder the situation. Them you can let me know which option you like best.



***********
But again, this is an important issue. Maybe it would be a good idea to pause for a while, and you can ponder the situation. Them you can let me know which option you like best.
I am not agree with all your option

My interpretation is jews think they have zeal to true God but It is not, because true God must have Jesus as one of the element
 
May 4, 2020
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I am not agree with all your option

My interpretation is jews think they have zeal to true God but It is not, because true God must have Jesus as one of the element

I would say that they have zeal for God but not with the same understanding. They are trying to serve God but the do not understand that there is a trinity.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
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I would say that they have zeal for God but not with the same understanding. They are trying to serve God but the do not understand that there is a trinity.
So they don't have zeal oN trinity God
And the only true God is trinity God

There fore they don't have zeal oN true God.
 
May 4, 2020
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So they don't have zeal oN trinity God
And the only true God is trinity God

There fore they don't have zeal oN true God.
Well yes the
So they don't have zeal oN trinity God
And the only true God is trinity God

There fore they don't have zeal oN true God.


I do agree that Jews cannot be saved without Christ. But I wouldn’t call Judaism a false religion. If you did then that would mean that all of the men of God, like Moses, would be condemned to hell. Plus Our God instituted Judaism, so if Jews aren’t worshiping the one true God then Our God lied. Hebrews 13:8 points out that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. So the God of the Jews didn’t just become one with Christ at some random point. The God of the Old Testament and the Jews is our God. They are worshipping a person of the trinity instead of the whole trinity. Judaism isn’t false it’s incomplete Christianity because it doesn’t include the New Testament.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
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Well yes the




I do agree that Jews cannot be saved without Christ. But I wouldn’t call Judaism a false religion. If you did then that would mean that all of the men of God, like Moses, would be condemned to hell. Plus Our God instituted Judaism, so if Jews aren’t worshiping the one true God then Our God lied. Hebrews 13:8 points out that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. So the God of the Jews didn’t just become one with Christ at some random point. The God of the Old Testament and the Jews is our God. They are worshipping a person of the trinity instead of the whole trinity. Judaism isn’t false it’s incomplete Christianity because it doesn’t include the New Testament.
Yep, judaism in old testament era believe in Jesus, because they believe in what Moses wrote and jesus say, Moses wrote about jesus. Verse 46 say If you believe in Moses you believe Jesus

It mean judaism now that don't believe in Jesus, mean don't believe what Moses wrote, and Moses wrote what God tell him to wrote.
That mean they don't believe in true God.


John 5
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
May 4, 2020
21
10
3
Yep, judaism in old testament era believe in Jesus, because they believe in what Moses wrote and jesus say, Moses wrote about jesus. Verse 46 say If you believe in Moses you believe Jesus

It mean judaism now that don't believe in Jesus, mean don't believe what Moses wrote, and Moses wrote what God tell him to wrote.
That mean they don't believe in true God.


John 5
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


Yes I agree with you.
 
May 4, 2020
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Yes I agree with you.


I am new to this debate and I am trying to see where their is disagreement so I can pick a side but I don’t see the problem. I do not feel like going through all 85 of the previous pages to find the dispute so could you point it out. As it seems now I think you are talking about CCC 841 but I am not sure.
 
May 4, 2020
21
10
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Yep, judaism in old testament era believe in Jesus, because they believe in what Moses wrote and jesus say, Moses wrote about jesus. Verse 46 say If you believe in Moses you believe Jesus

It mean judaism now that don't believe in Jesus, mean don't believe what Moses wrote, and Moses wrote what God tell him to wrote.
That mean they don't believe in true God.


John 5
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


I think I know what you were trying to say but just to clarify, I wouldn’t say that the Old Testament Jews believed in Jesus but they did believe in the coming Messiah. In fact the Jews today are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah, but they don’t recognize Christ as the Messiah.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
113
I think I know what you were trying to say but just to clarify, I wouldn’t say that the Old Testament Jews believed in Jesus but they did believe in the coming Messiah. In fact the Jews today are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah, but they don’t recognize Christ as the Messiah.
Yep, but If you read what Jesus say, Seem to me Jesus say If you believe in moses( old testament) you believe in Me.
To That is mean Jesus believe OT jews believe in Him as a God (verse 46)

Some Jews make their own Jesus, Jesus that free them from Rome, like King David protect them from philistine. Jesus that only help from physical problem, not Jesus that focus on eternity.
And that is not what messiah Moses wrote about
 
May 4, 2020
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Yep, but If you read what Jesus say, Seem to me Jesus say If you believe in moses( old testament) you believe in Me.
To That is mean Jesus believe OT jews believe in Him as a God (verse 46)

Some Jews make their own Jesus, Jesus that free them from Rome, like King David protect them from philistine. Jesus that only help from physical problem, not Jesus that focus on eternity.
And that is not what messiah Moses wrote about

Yes Moses spoke very briefly about a prophet in Deuteronomy 18 which didn’t too much info. But other passages like Isaiah 53, Psalms 110, and Daniel 7 give more information for the Messiah. Many prophets in the Old Testament added on to what Moses said. Btw are you Catholic or Protestant. If you are Protestant which denomination?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
113
Yes Moses spoke very briefly about a prophet in Deuteronomy 18 which didn’t too much info. But other passages like Isaiah 53, Psalms 110, and Daniel 7 give more information for the Messiah. Many prophets in the Old Testament added on to what Moses said. Btw are you Catholic or Protestant. If you are Protestant which denomination?
I am Protestant, my family and my childhood was Mennonite but now I attend to baptist church
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,038
113
Like what It say oN the verse, the whole verse mean not true God, read verse 3.For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
Yes, you can certainly say that Romans 10:2 does not refer to the true God.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

In the King James quoted above, the word "God" is capitalized, meaning that the translator believes it refers to the true God.

If it refers to a false god, then it should say
Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of god, but not according to knowledge.

So translator was wrong.

Can you follow what I am saying there?
Do you agree with what I am saying there?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,038
113
I am not agree with all your option

My interpretation is jews think they have zeal to true God but It is not, because true God must have Jesus as one of the element
Does Paul say that the Jews think they have a zeal of God? Or does Paul say they have a zeal of God?

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

If the word "God" above does not refer to the true God, then it shouldn't be capitalized.
Would you agree with that?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,038
113
I would say that they have zeal for God but not with the same understanding. They are trying to serve God but the do not understand that there is a trinity.
Yes, that's clearly what Paul is saying.

Not only do Jews not understand the trinity, but they don't understand God's plan of righteousness.