Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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sure!
would you agree that if in the end a person's interpretation is contradicted by what is stated in the passage, then the interpretation cannot be correct?

because worshipping God is not the same as believing in Jesus.

Peter and Paul and all the other apostles and Christians at the time wanted as many Jews as possible to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and to believe in him.

of course we still want the same thing today!


because they are blinded.

ὅτι ζῆλον θεοῦ ἔχουσιν

it literally says
"that zeal for God they have."

it does not say that they do not have a zeal for God.
nor does it say that they only think they do.
So you believe the interpretation correct?

What do you mean by blind?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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how people not believe Torah worship true God?
I think you will find the answer to that when
(and I mean this as gently as possible)
you are willing to deal honestly with Romans 10:2.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So you believe the interpretation correct?
no, I believe your interpretation is incorrect because it is contradicted by a statement in the verse.

What do you mean by blind?
it's like this
John 12:39 For this cause they couldn't believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 "He has blinded their eyes and he hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, and would turn, and I would heal them."

that verse also talks about their hearts being hardened
Romans 11:25 For I don't desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won't be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

and
Acts 28:26 saying, 'Go to this people, and say, in hearing, you will hear, but will in no way understand. In seeing, you will see, but will in no way perceive.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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because they are blinded.
So you believe Jews is blind so they can not see God than not worship true God

But you believe that blind Jews zeal to true God.

Seem not follow to me.

Blind > not worship true God and blind also make them not zeal to true Gid
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I think you will find the answer to that when
(and I mean this as gently as possible)
you are willing to deal honestly with Romans 10:2.
Please be honest with john 5

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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no, I believe your interpretation is incorrect because it is contradicted by a statement in the verse.


it's like this
John 12:39 For this cause they couldn't believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 "He has blinded their eyes and he hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, and would turn, and I would heal them."

that verse also talks about their hearts being hardened
Romans 11:25 For I don't desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won't be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

and
Acts 28:26 saying, 'Go to this people, and say, in hearing, you will hear, but will in no way understand. In seeing, you will see, but will in no way perceive.
That is why I don't believe these harden heart have zeal to true God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Quote
In September 1995, Pope John Paul II issued a statement claiming that recognition of the primacy of the Pope is essential for unity. An article in a 1995 Southern Cross read, “Pope: For unity, all churches must accept papal authority.”iv

End quote

Seem to me Catholic want to be the boss
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Quote

For the Catholic Church, this unity does not only apply to the Reformation churches, but includes all the people of the world:

Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time.v

All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God...And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.vi

End quote
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So you believe Jews is blind so they can not see God than not worship true God
I don't think that follows.

it's true that if a person is blinded, then they cannot worship in spirit and in truth.

but it is possible to worship imperfectly.

But you believe that blind Jews zeal to true God.

Seem not follow to me.

Blind > not worship true God and blind also make them not zeal to true Gid
well, then, I believe your dispute is with Paul, not with me.

if we check the original language

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/10-2.htm

ὅτι ζῆλον θεοῦ ἔχουσιν

it literally says
"that zeal for God they have."

"blind also make them not zeal to true Gid"

"zeal for God they have."
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
8,980
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Please be honest with john 5

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
absolutely!

the Jews as a group do not believe Moses, and they do not believe Jesus.

it does not follow that therefore they cannot have a zeal for God.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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absolutely!

the Jews as a group do not believe Moses, and they do not believe Jesus.

it does not follow that therefore they cannot have a zeal for God.
Jew do not believe Moses. Moses not wrote from himself, He wrote from YHWH, or God
Didn't believe what Moses wrote mean do not believe in God

How people do not believe God have zeal to God?
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Quote
In September 1995, Pope John Paul II issued a statement claiming that recognition of the primacy of the Pope is essential for unity. An article in a 1995 Southern Cross read, “Pope: For unity, all churches must accept papal authority.”iv

End quote

Seem to me Catholic want to be the boss
This sounds right.

All though you have hundreds of denominations there are only two choices:
1) follow the Man of No Sin, Jesus
or
2) follow the man of sin, Pope.

The sides have been chosen.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
8,980
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Jew do not believe Moses. Moses not wrote from himself, He wrote from YHWH, or God
Didn't believe what Moses wrote mean do not believe in God
I think you switched from
believe
to
believe in.
How people do not believe God have zeal to God?
exactly!
the Bible teaches both of them, doesn't it?
the Bible says Jews don't believe Moses.
and
the Bible says Jews have a zeal for God.

it's like Nicodemus saying, "How can these things be?"
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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755
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This sounds right.

All though you have hundreds of denominations there are only two choices:
1) follow the Man of No Sin, Jesus
or
2) follow the man of sin, Pope.

The sides have been chosen.
Yep, I believe a lot will follow man of sin as foretold in rev 13
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I think you switched from
believe
to
believe in.

exactly!
the Bible teaches both of them, doesn't it?
the Bible says Jews don't believe Moses.
and
the Bible says Jews have a zeal for God.

it's like Nicodemus saying, "How can these things be?"
My brother Dan, the problem is on your interpretation and your zeal to defend catholic, make you do what ever you can to make Catholic like not lie

Definition of zeal
: eagerness and ardent interest in pursuit of something : FERVOR
her zeal to succeed strained her relationships


I don't understand you believe Jews have zeal to God but don't worship a God.

That because ccc 841 say Muslim and us adore the same God. And you try to to cover up this lie
That why you say adore God do not mean adore Jesus

You know that Jesus God, am i correct?
How Muslim that don't believe Jesus God adore God?

This lie is the one that you try to cover, to make look like not lie
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Yep, I believe a lot will follow man of sin as foretold in rev 13
Man of Sin is office of Pope. 2nd beast of Rev has been completely fulfilled.
2nd beast of Rev was the middle ages Roman Catholic Church, it took 1600 yrs to completely fulfill.
have you ever heard this before???

Modern Day Roman Catholic Church (20th century onward) is the beginnings of fulfillment of Prostitute of Babylon. It may take another 1000 yrs or longer for this to be completely fulfilled as well. she includes many of the denominations that are in the process of moving back toward ecumenical communication and partial communion and eventually full communion with the RCC.

For example, every denomination that recites the Nicene Creed is pledging allegiance to the RCC, which is the pope, which is the man of sin.

This is all happening already. It has been happening for a long time now. Yet is has all been under the radar. This is what a strong delusion looks like. To fool the world for a paltry 7 years is not a strong delusion. I mean Hitler fooled the world for longer than 7 years.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,650
755
113
Man of Sin is office of Pope. 2nd beast of Rev has been completely fulfilled.
2nd beast of Rev was the middle ages Roman Catholic Church, it took 1600 yrs to completely fulfill.
have you ever heard this before???

Modern Day Roman Catholic Church (20th century onward) is the beginnings of fulfillment of Prostitute of Babylon. It may take another 1000 yrs or longer for this to be completely fulfilled as well. she includes many of the denominations that are in the process of moving back toward ecumenical communication and partial communion and eventually full communion with the RCC.

For example, every denomination that recites the Nicene Creed is pledging allegiance to the RCC, which is the pope, which is the man of sin.

This is all happening already. It has been happening for a long time now. Yet is has all been under the radar. This is what a strong delusion looks like. To fool the world for a paltry 7 years is not a strong delusion. I mean Hitler fooled the world for longer than 7 years.
I believe Pope is the man of sin, but I don't know if 7 years tribulation already happen, what I know is it will start with 7 years peace agreement with Israel than in the middle of that agreement the antichrist/ pope will break that agreement and start apply mark of the beast to every body.
I may wrong, but I never heard that agreement happen yet.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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I believe Pope is the man of sin, but I don't know if 7 years tribulation already happen, what I know is it will start with 7 years peace agreement with Israel than in the middle of that agreement the antichrist/ pope will break that agreement and start apply mark of the beast to every body.
I may wrong, but I never heard that agreement happen yet.
The tribulation is not just 7 years. We are in the tribulation.

The tribulation started in the 1st century AD --> and continues --> all the way until Christ's Return:

The pope (Holy Father) already applies his mark by saying, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and making the sign of the cross +

The middle ages Roman Catholic Church with the Holy Roman Empire already had their Inquisitions where they killed many Jews who would refused to be marked with the sign of the cross +