Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

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kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
345
225
43
I accept cessationism

1 - the completed canon fits with the context of Gods revelation in 1 co 13. Also in Ephesians 4.

2 the death of the apostles also completed the work of the Holy Spirit through sign and ministry gifts

3 the objective experience of signs wonders and miracles now is that they are at least very very rare (since God can still work according to His will they are still possible)

If the gifts were for now we should have clear and obvious biblical signs and wonders etc
Hi Wattie,

Does Paul write about the canon of scripture anywhere chapter 13 (or anywhere else in 1 Corinthians, for that matter) though? The idea is foreign to the context. Other than that, now that we have the completed scriptures, do you now “know fully, even as you are fully known “? The last New Testament book was written 35 years after 1 Corinthians. Would it be persuasive for Paul to say, “We know love will never end because it will last more than 35 years “?
I think you’re very mistaken in your view. The perfect has to be the parousia, when we no longer see “through a glass, darkly” but see face to face. This phrase is used throughout Old Testament of people seeing God.
So no, can’t accept your view - but this doesn’t change our being brothers and encouraging each other, of course.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,734
1,041
113
London
You are avoiding his question. I too would like to know of the countries that this is happening because it is not happening here. Even the pentecostals go to the hospitals regularly.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who disbelieve expect to see miracles. If somebody was raised from the dead before your very eyes you would not believe, or you would not believe it was God.

You won't see, stop looking for evidence, you'll get eye strain. God will hide it from you.

Miracles are for believers.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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It never ceases to amaze me how people who disbelieve expect to see miracles. If somebody was raised from the dead before your very eyes you would not believe, or you would not believe it was God.

You won't see, stop looking for evidence, you'll get eye strain. God will hide it from you.

Miracles are for believers.
Are you another who do not distinguish miracles from signs?
 
Jun 18, 2020
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It never ceases to amaze me how people who disbelieve expect to see miracles. If somebody was raised from the dead before your very eyes you would not believe, or you would not believe it was God.

You won't see, stop looking for evidence, you'll get eye strain. God will hide it from you.

Miracles are for believers.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who disbelieve expect to see miracles.
Just answer the question and stop with the smoke screen. You have nothing but claims just like the Mormons and RCC.

If somebody was raised from the dead before your very eyes you would not believe, or you would not believe it was God.
I most certainly do believe in miracles, it is the baseless claims of miracles that I don't believe in.

You won't see, stop looking for evidence, you'll get eye strain. God will hide it from you.
No one "looks for evidence" of the ongoing, that is absurd. This is why by nature the pentecostal narrative is bogus.

Miracles are for believers.
Read your Bible, miracles are for both believers and non-believers. I can't believe you wrote this.
 
Jun 18, 2020
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Using the example of manna is like displaying oranges to try and show that apples don't exist.

With the manna, the Scripture clearly says that when the Israelites started growing their own food, the manna stopped. But there are no clear statements in Scripture that the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts of the Spirit have ceased.

The main reason we don't see regular miracles in our churches is because of unbelief, hypocrisy, paganistic ceremony and ritual, and occult practices. All that Cessationists are doing is blaming God for the failures of the church to be totally faithful to His Word.
Using the example of manna is like displaying oranges to try and show that apples don't exist. With the manna, the Scripture clearly says that when the Israelites started growing their own food, the manna stopped.
The example of manna is a great instance of God ending a miraculous time without the need to explaiin it's end or even giving a warning. The Hebrews just noticed it stopped and accepted it.

It's end was recorded, but not that it was to end. This is an important point to understand.

But there are no clear statements in Scripture that the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts of the Spirit have ceased.
This is childish, of course there is "no clear statement in Scripture" that the gifts were to cease, the same as there was no mention that the manna was to cease. You will find no mention of when the gifts did cease because the canon was closed.

The main reason we don't see regular miracles in our churches is because of unbelief, hypocrisy, paganistic ceremony and ritual, and occult practices.
These same sins were going on during the 1st century as well. What is your point?

All that Cessationists are doing is blaming God for the failures of the church to be totally faithful to His Word.
What gall. All that continualists are doing is labeling the mundane as miraculous in order to push their narrative of mysticism.
When the miraculous does return and it will the pentecostals will regret their attempts at calling their babble and healings as supernatural movements of the Holy Spirit. They will be in awe of what real physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit looks like.


They will be called to account for such foolishness and not just the ones on TV.
 
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
I accept cessationism

1 - the completed canon fits with the context of Gods revelation in 1 co 13. Also in Ephesians 4.

2 the death of the apostles also completed the work of the Holy Spirit through sign and ministry gifts

3 the objective experience of signs wonders and miracles now is that they are at least very very rare (since God can still work according to His will they are still possible)

If the gifts were for now we should have clear and obvious biblical signs and wonders etc
Well said.
 
Jun 18, 2020
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By the way, one thought I had about the passage in Mark 16 is that we don't have the original authored document. All we have are manuscripts that date back to the Fourth Century AD. Some have the passage included, and others don't. My view is that by the Fourth Century, there were those who believed that signs and wonders had ceased, and others who believed that they were still evident. So the cessationist ones edited the passage out, while the "continualists" left it in.
I know of no Bible that excludes the verses you are talking about. Do you know of any?

There are a number of Bibles that do exclude certain verses but not Mark 16.

What you think may have happened during the Fourth Century AD is not germaine, the verses are there.

You are just casting doubt on the completeness of the Bible.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,259
2,894
113
You are avoiding the question. When was the last time you saw someone raised from the dead in your church, or even someone who is blind who could see, or lame that could walk?

Do you not realized that now, all the so-called healing miracles are mostly back problems, muscles aches etc?

When the disciples of John was asking him that question, Jesus did all those miracles immediately, regardless of the level of faith on the recipients. Do you seriously think all of those recipients have 100% faith in him during that time?

That is what signs were meant to be during the gospel time. Now, we put so much dependence on the faith of the receivers as an excuse why they are not happening now, which to cessationalists, is faulty thinking.

no, I am not you are not accepting my answer. You don't want an answer you want to debate. You ask unreasonable out of context outlandish questions like :

"When was the last time you saw someone raised from the dead in your church, or even someone who is blind who could see, or lame that could walk?"

If I gave you the testimony you would dismiss it with a medical explanation. For example, if aman fell on the floor dead and You came to him and started CPR for 5 minutes and his heart was not beating, then he came back to life the heart starting beating after five minutes and he now is back and awake.

Did you do that or was it, God?

Answer this and I will answer your questions directly about my church and the things you listed.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,259
2,894
113
So Ronair's point was that, just as manna suddenly stopped coming down from heaven for the nation Israel in Joshua 5:12, signs and wonders have also suddenly stopped for all of us now.

Only the most stubborn Christian would continue to insist that signs and wonders are still happening in this dispensation of grace.

So Ronair does not have to prove from scripture that they have stopped, anyone with a brain to think will see that they have indeed stopped.

But don't worry, when the Tribulation period begins for Israel in the 70th week, I believe God will once again rain food down from Heaven to feed the Jews when they take Jesus's advice to sell all they have and flee to the mountains.

As I stated, that 70th week will see signs and wonders making a comeback.
To take the context of manna from heaven and to allegorize it with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is an error. Your result to name-calling about stubborn Christians But the very verse you used to refute the gifts of the Holy Spirit being for today was Joshua 5:12 and were stubborn? If a person says the word of says that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped and you say that person doesn't have to prove from scripture that statement, then you have made that person words authoritative ND YOU SHOULD NOT BE LISTEN TOO.

lol. yOU GO RIGHT AHEAD and make claims that the Bible the word of God says something and not able to show it scripture and we are "stubborn" because we ask to show me, then so be it.

LOL and you say Pentecostals are u unbiblical Hahahaha LOl ROTFL
 

Simona1988

Active member
Mar 15, 2021
100
70
28
Maybe I'm more stupid than the rest of you but I would have liked a definition of the two words. Not all Christians hear the word 'continuationism' every day. Never mind, from the posts out here, I think I figured out what each term signifies.

If continuationist mean that you believe the Holy Spirit still works in the church (signs and wonders), with the believers, granting them a gift, than I am a continuationist.

I saw that people who are continuationists are also Pentecostal.

I come from a Pentecostal family, but got baptized in the Eastern Orthodox Church. The priest to whom I confess, told me that from all denominations, Pentecostals are the most close to the orthodox church. That surprised me very much. He said the reason we are so close is because both of us believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit (that we can still receive them in these days).
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,259
2,894
113
Maybe I'm more stupid than the rest of you but I would have liked a definition of the two words. Not all Christians hear the word 'continuationism' every day. Never mind, from the posts out here, I think I figured out what each term signifies.

If continuationist mean that you believe the Holy Spirit still works in the church (signs and wonders), with the believers, granting them a gift, than I am a continuationist.

I saw that people who are continuationists are also Pentecostal.

I come from a Pentecostal family, but got baptized in the Eastern Orthodox Church. The priest to whom I confess, told me that from all denominations, Pentecostals are the most close to the orthodox church. That surprised me very much. He said the reason we are so close is because both of us believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit (that we can still receive them in these days).

First off you are not stupid. There are terms those who would like to keep us sepreate use.
 
Mar 17, 2021
464
127
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Using the example of manna is like displaying oranges to try and show that apples don't exist. With the manna, the Scripture clearly says that when the Israelites started growing their own food, the manna stopped.
The example of manna is a great instance of God ending a miraculous time without the need to explaiin it's end or even giving a warning. The Hebrews just noticed it stopped and accepted it.

It's end was recorded, but not that it was to end. This is an important point to understand.

But there are no clear statements in Scripture that the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts of the Spirit have ceased.
This is childish, of course there is "no clear statement in Scripture" that the gifts were to cease, the same as there was no mention that the manna was to cease. You will find no mention of when the gifts did cease because the canon was closed.

The main reason we don't see regular miracles in our churches is because of unbelief, hypocrisy, paganistic ceremony and ritual, and occult practices.
These same sins were going on during the 1st century as well. What is your point?

All that Cessationists are doing is blaming God for the failures of the church to be totally faithful to His Word.
What gall. All that continualists are doing is labeling the mundane as miraculous in order to push their narrative of mysticism.
When the miraculous does return and it will the pentecostals will regret their attempts at calling their babble and healings as supernatural movements of the Holy Spirit. They will be in awe of what real physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit looks like.


They will be called to account for such foolishness and not just the ones on TV.
Praying in tongues, casting out demons, and praying for miracles of healing are not limited to the Pentecostal denominations. I know that Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Baptist churches all have continuist believers who believe that the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts are still active today. This is because these folk read the Bible and believe it.

Miracles don't have to happen all the time for folk to believe in them and freely ask God to be their help in their time of need. God works with miracles according to His own will with folk who believe the Bible; but one thing is true, miracles will never happen with those who refuse to believe in a miracle-working God and who read nonsense into Scripture that isn't there.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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no, I am not you are not accepting my answer. You don't want an answer you want to debate. You ask unreasonable out of context outlandish questions like :

"When was the last time you saw someone raised from the dead in your church, or even someone who is blind who could see, or lame that could walk?"

If I gave you the testimony you would dismiss it with a medical explanation. For example, if aman fell on the floor dead and You came to him and started CPR for 5 minutes and his heart was not beating, then he came back to life the heart starting beating after five minutes and he now is back and awake.

Did you do that or was it, God?

Answer this and I will answer your questions directly about my church and the things you listed.
No problem answering your question there. Do you know why Jesus waited more than 3 days before resurrecting Lazarus? (John 11:6)

It is so that every Jew will know that that sign must come from God. (John 11:17)

So your example above does not fit that category. My answer would be "It may be God, but it may not be".

That is what a sign is suppose to be. A miracle that, when it happens, no one will have any doubt that only God could do it.

Now I will wait for your answer to my question, as you have promised.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Maybe I'm more stupid than the rest of you but I would have liked a definition of the two words. Not all Christians hear the word 'continuationism' every day. Never mind, from the posts out here, I think I figured out what each term signifies.

If continuationist mean that you believe the Holy Spirit still works in the church (signs and wonders), with the believers, granting them a gift, than I am a continuationist.

I saw that people who are continuationists are also Pentecostal.

I come from a Pentecostal family, but got baptized in the Eastern Orthodox Church. The priest to whom I confess, told me that from all denominations, Pentecostals are the most close to the orthodox church. That surprised me very much. He said the reason we are so close is because both of us believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit (that we can still receive them in these days).
You must first understand the distinction between signs and miracles.

All signs are miracles but not all miracles are signs.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,259
2,894
113
No problem answering your question there. Do you know why Jesus waited more than 3 days before resurrecting Lazarus? (John 11:6)

It is so that every Jew will know that that sign must come from God. (John 11:17)

So your example above does not fit that category. My answer would be "It may be God, but it may not be".

That is what a sign is suppose to be. A miracle that, when it happens, no one will have any doubt that only God could do it.

Now I will wait for your answer to my question, as you have promised.
Yes, I do know why Jesus waited four days before resurrecting Lazarus.

and you lack integrity, with your inept answer "it may be God, but it may not be"

then you can't say what IS not God when it is a pentacostel operating in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, can you? If you are incapable of saying it is God who brings one BACK FROM THE DEAD no matter if it is 5 minutes or four days.

Your pride is very telling. You do not even know what is an act of God from HIS Attributes and say what you know God can do from the word of God.
Don't you ever say to me what is an act of God or what is not of God when you are clueless? Your comment to my question was not even pithy it was pathetic.

I have seen the dead risen back to life but not in our Church we have not had anyone died in our services or sleeping.

Each Sunday we have seen people get saved that is the greatest miracle of all. We have seen through prayer God heal cancer, hips, hearing, eyesight, and many more. God even uses doctors to heal too if you did not know.

We have seen marriages restored, addiction broken and people set free. None of those things to you are praise worthy, you can take that up with God.

I believe that Healing is not necessarily a miracle. You can close your mouth now and you might learn something.


Healing is a return to its natural function or back to normal. God created the human body with healing in it. But over time the body ages and dies slowly because the flesh is not saved. So when Doctors say they have done all they can we approach the Lord God and ask Him to heal in the name of Jesus. God says yes, no, and not yet. that is what the church can do every day pray and ask God to heal and anoint with oil according to James 5.

When the word of God is preached the gospel message God confirms the word with signs and wonders Acts we see Jesus did, and what Acts 4:33 talks about the works testify that Jesus is alive.

it is very sad of you not to have the understanding that no person dies without God know or having a part of it.

I am placing you back a mute so I don't see your foolish comments.
 
Mar 17, 2021
464
127
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You must first understand the distinction between signs and miracles.

All signs are miracles but not all miracles are signs.
I think this is just a play on words and splitting hairs. A miracle in the context of evangelism is a sign that Jesus Christ is really alive today. Most unbelievers don't believe the Bible, so most of the quoting of Scripture to the unsaved is just a waste of time. There is nothing magic in Scripture quotes that suddenly cause an unbeliever to be enlightened and convicted of his own sin. Using the Scripture to try and convince unbelievers can be a type of sorcery in the belief that the written Scripture itself has some sort of power to cast some type of spell on the unbeliever, much like a love potion given to someone to make them fall in love with the giver.

It is not the written text of Scripture that enlightens the unsaved. It is the Holy Spirit who does that. He can speak through the Scripture, and can speak equally effectively through someone talking about the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

Quoting Scripture and talking Christian jargon to an unsaved person would work only if that person was brought up in church and had a basic belief in God anyway. I was a person like that. I believed in God and already believed the Bible was His Word, and so when I was shown the salvation Scriptures I believed them and make my decision to embrace Christ.

But the same technique doesn't work for an unsaved person who doesn't believe the Bible is true. There needs to be something more. Often the godly example of genuine believers can have a major effect on unsaved people, and so when they are witnessed to, they can see that the believer is living what he is talking about. This often happens with unsaved family members, wives or husbands, or workmates, who have been in close contact with the believer over many years. Even my brother, who gets angry every time he sees a church and believers all Christians are hypocrites, told me that because I have maintained my faith and the same message to him about Christ over the last 45 years, there has to be something in it.

Cult members and those brainwashed by the occult are the hardest to reach for Christ. They need more than religious words and quotes from the Bible. They need to know that the living Christ is more powerful than the gods and demonic entities they follow. It was the demonstrated power of the Holy Spirit through miraculous healing and deliverance from demons that turned multitudes of pagans to Christ and overturned the Roman Empire. The pagans saw that the power of Jesus Christ was superior to their own pagan gods, so they turned away from their gods to Jesus Christ. None of those pagans would have been won to Christ through the Cessationist word-based evangelism that many modern churches serve up. It is not that they want to see the power of the Holy Spirit. They need to see it.

But if the church can't produce it, then all its attempts to win the lost will go down the gurgler.

Actually, in the Book of Acts, the miracles and signs were for the salvation of the lost, and not for the self-indulgence of religious people. The reason we don't see the miracles and signs today is because religious people want them for themselves and because they don't have a lot of concern for the lost, they don't try and ask God to be able to speak the Word with boldness to the unsaved and to ask Him to accompany their preaching with signs and wonders in the name of Jesus.

So, the signs and wonders are not for selfish religious pelicans who want them just to bolster their church's reputation and assert that their particular church group or denomination is superior to others and at the cutting edge of what God is doing in their city.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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Yes, I do know why Jesus waited four days before resurrecting Lazarus.

and you lack integrity, with your inept answer "it may be God, but it may not be"

then you can't say what IS not God when it is a pentacostel operating in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, can you? If you are incapable of saying it is God who brings one BACK FROM THE DEAD no matter if it is 5 minutes or four days.

Your pride is very telling. You do not even know what is an act of God from HIS Attributes and say what you know God can do from the word of God.
Don't you ever say to me what is an act of God or what is not of God when you are clueless? Your comment to my question was not even pithy it was pathetic.

I have seen the dead risen back to life but not in our Church we have not had anyone died in our services or sleeping.

Each Sunday we have seen people get saved that is the greatest miracle of all. We have seen through prayer God heal cancer, hips, hearing, eyesight, and many more. God even uses doctors to heal too if you did not know.

We have seen marriages restored, addiction broken and people set free. None of those things to you are praise worthy, you can take that up with God.

I believe that Healing is not necessarily a miracle. You can close your mouth now and you might learn something.


Healing is a return to its natural function or back to normal. God created the human body with healing in it. But over time the body ages and dies slowly because the flesh is not saved. So when Doctors say they have done all they can we approach the Lord God and ask Him to heal in the name of Jesus. God says yes, no, and not yet. that is what the church can do every day pray and ask God to heal and anoint with oil according to James 5.

When the word of God is preached the gospel message God confirms the word with signs and wonders Acts we see Jesus did, and what Acts 4:33 talks about the works testify that Jesus is alive.

it is very sad of you not to have the understanding that no person dies without God know or having a part of it.

I am placing you back a mute so I don't see your foolish comments.
You asked me a question, and I answered it.

What more do you want?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
I think this is just a play on words and splitting hairs. A miracle in the context of evangelism is a sign that Jesus Christ is really alive today. Most unbelievers don't believe the Bible, so most of the quoting of Scripture to the unsaved is just a waste of time. There is nothing magic in Scripture quotes that suddenly cause an unbeliever to be enlightened and convicted of his own sin. Using the Scripture to try and convince unbelievers can be a type of sorcery in the belief that the written Scripture itself has some sort of power to cast some type of spell on the unbeliever, much like a love potion given to someone to make them fall in love with the giver.

It is not the written text of Scripture that enlightens the unsaved. It is the Holy Spirit who does that. He can speak through the Scripture, and can speak equally effectively through someone talking about the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

Quoting Scripture and talking Christian jargon to an unsaved person would work only if that person was brought up in church and had a basic belief in God anyway. I was a person like that. I believed in God and already believed the Bible was His Word, and so when I was shown the salvation Scriptures I believed them and make my decision to embrace Christ.

But the same technique doesn't work for an unsaved person who doesn't believe the Bible is true. There needs to be something more. Often the godly example of genuine believers can have a major effect on unsaved people, and so when they are witnessed to, they can see that the believer is living what he is talking about. This often happens with unsaved family members, wives or husbands, or workmates, who have been in close contact with the believer over many years. Even my brother, who gets angry every time he sees a church and believers all Christians are hypocrites, told me that because I have maintained my faith and the same message to him about Christ over the last 45 years, there has to be something in it.

Cult members and those brainwashed by the occult are the hardest to reach for Christ. They need more than religious words and quotes from the Bible. They need to know that the living Christ is more powerful than the gods and demonic entities they follow. It was the demonstrated power of the Holy Spirit through miraculous healing and deliverance from demons that turned multitudes of pagans to Christ and overturned the Roman Empire. The pagans saw that the power of Jesus Christ was superior to their own pagan gods, so they turned away from their gods to Jesus Christ. None of those pagans would have been won to Christ through the Cessationist word-based evangelism that many modern churches serve up. It is not that they want to see the power of the Holy Spirit. They need to see it.

But if the church can't produce it, then all its attempts to win the lost will go down the gurgler.

Actually, in the Book of Acts, the miracles and signs were for the salvation of the lost, and not for the self-indulgence of religious people. The reason we don't see the miracles and signs today is because religious people want them for themselves and because they don't have a lot of concern for the lost, they don't try and ask God to be able to speak the Word with boldness to the unsaved and to ask Him to accompany their preaching with signs and wonders in the name of Jesus.

So, the signs and wonders are not for selfish religious pelicans who want them just to bolster their church's reputation and assert that their particular church group or denomination is superior to others and at the cutting edge of what God is doing in their city.
As I said to you, because you can't/unwilling to distinguish between signs and miracles, that is why you are not understanding the point that cessationalists are making.

Note, you can understand a point without agreeing with it.
 
Mar 17, 2021
464
127
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Yes, I do know why Jesus waited four days before resurrecting Lazarus.

and you lack integrity, with your inept answer "it may be God, but it may not be"

then you can't say what IS not God when it is a pentacostel operating in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, can you? If you are incapable of saying it is God who brings one BACK FROM THE DEAD no matter if it is 5 minutes or four days.

Your pride is very telling. You do not even know what is an act of God from HIS Attributes and say what you know God can do from the word of God.
Don't you ever say to me what is an act of God or what is not of God when you are clueless? Your comment to my question was not even pithy it was pathetic.

I have seen the dead risen back to life but not in our Church we have not had anyone died in our services or sleeping.

Each Sunday we have seen people get saved that is the greatest miracle of all. We have seen through prayer God heal cancer, hips, hearing, eyesight, and many more. God even uses doctors to heal too if you did not know.

We have seen marriages restored, addiction broken and people set free. None of those things to you are praise worthy, you can take that up with God.

I believe that Healing is not necessarily a miracle. You can close your mouth now and you might learn something.


Healing is a return to its natural function or back to normal. God created the human body with healing in it. But over time the body ages and dies slowly because the flesh is not saved. So when Doctors say they have done all they can we approach the Lord God and ask Him to heal in the name of Jesus. God says yes, no, and not yet. that is what the church can do every day pray and ask God to heal and anoint with oil according to James 5.

When the word of God is preached the gospel message God confirms the word with signs and wonders Acts we see Jesus did, and what Acts 4:33 talks about the works testify that Jesus is alive.

it is very sad of you not to have the understanding that no person dies without God know or having a part of it.

I am placing you back a mute so I don't see your foolish comments.
The bottom line, and which our fine feathered friend doesn't understand, is that Jesus is the baptizer with the Spirit and the giver of the gifts. When He was in the flesh he demonstrated what Christian ministry was all about. Then he told His disciples that He was to go away to be their advocate and intercessor in Heaven, but He would not leave them to fall down the gurgler. He said that He would continue to be with them in the Person of the Holy Spirit who would fully represent Him. And the great difference would be that when He was with them in the flesh, He was outside of them, but the Holy Spirit will indwell them. So, having the Holy Spirit within them was the same has having Jesus in them. "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

Our friend actually insults the Lord by accusing Him of being an indian giver. He is denying the Scripture: "The gifts and calling of God are without repentance". This means that when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, He sent Him along with His whole toolbox of supernatural gifts to be used to build up the body of Christ. He did not tell the Holy Spirit at the end of the 1st Century to give the toolbox back to Him. It's like telling a motor mechanic, "You can have the toolbox to fix the cars this year, but at the end of the year, you can't use them anymore, and all you can use next year is just one crescent wrench to fix the cars." That's about as ridiculous as it sounds, but that is what Cessationists are doing to the church. They are effectively saying that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were subject to repentance after the canon of Scripture was completed. In fact, the completion of Scripture was just another valuable tool added to the toolbox to give a solid foundation for the supernatural gifts to continue be used effectively as the Holy Spirit distributes them.

What Cessationists have done is to empty the toolbox of all the effective tools, and put in the service manual instead. It's like training the mechanic to know everything in the service manual, but not let him have the tools to use that knowledge to actually fix the cars.