Charismatic - Losing Faith (Healing)

[eph610]

Paul was explaining the use of wine, if you read the context the idea was all things can be profitable. Today some people teach you can't even drink a glass of wine.

As far as thorn in my flesh, this is an OT comment and it always refers to rebellious people not sickness. And the REASON Paul had thus was because of his third heaven and radical miracle experiences. In order to have a Paul experience we need to be having these kinds of experiences also. And you have to change Jesus' words that whosoever believes in Me will do these works in order to come to this conclusion, which I am always apprehensive about doing.

Paul said in 2 Cor 12 the thorn in his flesh was a messenger of Satan. The thorn was not physical or an allegory, it was a demonic thorn sent to keep him from becoming prideful. I believe personally the thorn was a work of the flesh Paul had to constantly keep in check and submitted to the grace of Jesus and that was his anger/temper.

 

[eph610]

By His stripes we were healed. Never let go of that promise. Amen

We do not let go of the promise, we rest in the promise, which means we don't need to be confessing for the blessing all the time. I believe and rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

 

[eph610]

this is a wonderful testimony to both the healing power of our God and even more, to the faith which is faith and not the faith in faith nonsense that is spouted and touted

Abraham believed God for the impossible and his faith was accounted to him as righteousness

that is the faith that is accounted to us as righteousness

I too have been sideswiped and bushwhacked by Christians pounding on me for my 'lack' of faith. these same people, are off in the bushes somewhere, way off the track, while I plod on and trust God that He can and does keep me

I have been mocked by people I loved and they have never apologized for what they did...does not matter that I was 100% on track and they were utterly wrong.

and that is one of the main problems I have with this 'movement'...all the prophecies and so called miracles for the sake of supposedly feeling God...it's deception

when the prophecies do not come true, they just move on to another one

when someone is not healed, it's the person's fault

when someone tries to correct the lunacy, they are of the devil and squashing the Holy Spirit

faith, is not about how you feel

faith is trusting, day after day, IN God...not what He is going to do...because what if, what if, you find yourself all alone with all the people you loved and whom you thought loved you, lying about you, cutting you off and calling you demonic, while still calling themselves Christian and what if years later they have all torn apart lives and your life is getting stronger and better in the Lord and you look at the carnage and hurt over it, but still no one will admit what they did...what if your entire life and everything you believed in all goes to hell in a handbasket and you realize you had faith in people instead of God and He let everyone's heart have their way and He is the most grieved of all and when you turn to Him, you know it was unavoidable because you ever really only wanted the truth

when I look at the mess of the church and what passes for prophecy and so called healing and the miracles that are often demonic because no one seems to realize there is no growth and everyone just wants another miracle or another sign and its all about how good you feel, I pray for mercy and I pray for discernment and I pray for light..God's light on my path and that He keep me...because this world is on fire and the church is wearing flammable clothing

I have read the other posts where people are expressing their hearts...I have no problem with those...it is the insistence that the Bible says something that is does NOT say that destroys lives IMO, that I reject and I pray people wake up

Thanks Lauren!

I agree with all you said. here is another side note to my walk through of this health crisis.

I asked God to give me the strength to go to the Bible College graduation of 2 of our spiritual daughters who serve in ministry with us. I was in severe pain and it was only about the 2nd week of the trial. I promised our 2 daughters I would be there and relied on the grace of God to get me there.

I have been used to lay hands on the sick and they have recovered and I have asked elders of the church to anoint me with oil and pray for me. At all times when it came to healing on being used to deliver or receive it, the anointing on the hands was warm and sometimes comfortable hot to the touch. Remember this, I am going somewhere here.

We got to church for the graduation and I sat down and a WOF lady was sitting right in front of me that I did not know. I only knew her from her reputation and that was she is a self professed WOF teacher, evangelist and healer in our area. She went to a very famous WOF Bible School in OKand follows Ken Hagin Jr. and Kenneth Copeland and is ordained by Kenneth Copeland.

She was wearing all black a low cut top, revealing cleavage, and heavy black eye liner, and dyed black hair and immediate discernment is the same I get when confronted or sitting by any heavily involved WOFer, not anything good, only darkness and a coldness. So she turns to her husband and says some one around us has a neck injury and we must pray for their faith.

She turns around looks at me and my wife and proceeds to lecture us that my faith is woefully small and that I am already healed and need to walk it out. She then continued to tell me through a "word of Knowledge' that my diet and hidden sins caused the issue. Everything she said about my diet was wrong, because I eat very well. My wife asked her to mind her own business and she told us she would pray for my healing and the spirit of witchcraft off my wife because of her "rebellion"

Before I could do anything she was in her front of me pulling me and my wife up and I told her, DO NOT LAY HANDS ON ME AT ALL!!! like most WOFers she ignored that laid hands on the back of my neck and began praying. Her hands, were ice cold and the energy that tied to invade my body was ice cold. As she was praying her eyes opened and she dropped her hands from my neck and almost could not breathe and was staring at me like she had just seen a ghost. I looked her square in the eyes and told her, yeah thats right, you are feeling and seeing the Holy Ghost, now in the name of Jesus back off and get away from me witch. She and her husband scurried back to their seats and never said a word the rest of the service.

Almost immediately when she grabbed me the Holy Spirit told me one word: Witch

He then said fear not, you are protected allow her to continue for I will show her who I am through you.
My wife said later she was witch and had come against her in prayer.

3 weeks later one of our spiritual daughters told us, wow I was on the platform waiting for service to begin and saw the witch attempting to come against you. We had never said a word to her about the issue

Many will come in my name...do not be mislead

TO be clear, normally I would never allow a stranger to lay hands on me, let a lone a woman that is not my wife

 

[UnderGrace]

eph610,

Thank you, thank you for sharing this!

You share an important testimony here, one that needs to be told. The are indeed wolves in sheep's clothing and what they teach does great harm to the body of Christ and to those who are searching.
They seem to bring light but they bring darkness instead.

Interesting that when people began to catch on to the "word of faith" as a lie it was then transformed into something else, like the believer is redeemed from disease and illness through the cross and the shed blood of Jesus, and even through communion too.

If Jesus atoned for our illness and disease on the cross one would think it would come as a package deal, yet I have seen many believers die from illness. But then there is always the catch worked in, it is because one has not believed enough, that is why it did not happen.

No answer from these teachers when one has faith, loves and knows God, believes, yet healing, whether divine or by medical intervention does not happen. Your experience tells us from where the false teacher draws his or her power, it is not from anything good.

Thanks Lauren!

I agree with all you said. here is another side note to my walk through of this health crisis.

I asked God to give me the strength to go to the Bible College graduation of 2 of our spiritual daughters who serve in ministry with us. I was in severe pain and it was only about the 2nd week of the trial. I promised our 2 daughters I would be there and relied on the grace of God to get me there.

I have been used to lay hands on the sick and they have recovered and I have asked elders of the church to anoint me with oil and pray for me. At all times when it came to healing on being used to deliver or receive it, the anointing on the hands was warm and sometimes comfortable hot to the touch. Remember this, I am going somewhere here.

We got to church for the graduation and I sat down and a WOF lady was sitting right in front of me that I did not know. I only knew her from her reputation and that was she is a self professed WOF teacher, evangelist and healer in our area. She went to a very famous WOF Bible School in OKand follows Ken Hagin Jr. and Kenneth Copeland and is ordained by Kenneth Copeland.

She was wearing all black a low cut top, revealing cleavage, and heavy black eye liner, and dyed black hair and immediate discernment is the same I get when confronted or sitting by any heavily involved WOFer, not anything good, only darkness and a coldness. So she turns to her husband and says some one around us has a neck injury and we must pray for their faith.

She turns around looks at me and my wife and proceeds to lecture us that my faith is woefully small and that I am already healed and need to walk it out. She then continued to tell me through a "word of Knowledge' that my diet and hidden sins caused the issue. Everything she said about my diet was wrong, because I eat very well. My wife asked her to mind her own business and she told us she would pray for my healing and the spirit of witchcraft off my wife because of her "rebellion"

Before I could do anything she was in her front of me pulling me and my wife up and I told her, DO NOT LAY HANDS ON ME AT ALL!!! like most WOFers she ignored that laid hands on the back of my neck and began praying. Her hands, were ice cold and the energy that tied to invade my body was ice cold. As she was praying her eyes opened and she dropped her hands from my neck and almost could not breathe and was staring at me like she had just seen a ghost. I looked her square in the eyes and told her, yeah thats right, you are feeling and seeing the Holy Ghost, now in the name of Jesus back off and get away from me witch. She and her husband scurried back to their seats and never said a word the rest of the service.

Almost immediately when she grabbed me the Holy Spirit told me one word: Witch

He then said fear not, you are protected allow her to continue for I will show her who I am through you.
My wife said later she was witch and had come against her in prayer.

3 weeks later one of our spiritual daughters told us, wow I was on the platform waiting for service to begin and saw the witch attempting to come against you. We had never said a word to her about the issue

Many will come in my name...do not be mislead

TO be clear, normally I would never allow a stranger to lay hands on me, let a lone a woman that is not my wife

 

[popeye]

Lol

All that is needed around here is to connect supposed witches to WOF. They will confirm you,fawn you,and hang on every word that maligns that segment of the body of Christ.

Wooopeee

 

[Cee]

Because it is so much better to blame God. Oh God doesn't want you well... that's just SO much better.

 

[Cee]

Roger,

You're obviously bitter about something. Your snide remarks are not appreciated. I've already told you this once. I suggest you get right with God.

I'm not one bit concerned about exposure, what do you condemn me for? For believing Scripture? For believing God when He says He will heal all of our diseases??? Then so be it. I pray you forgive whoever has caused you harm. But I'm done with your defilement.

 

[Cee]

To those who seek out the things of God, who truly desire to know the Spirit and follow Him. I pray that as you seek you shall find. But for those who think they are wise, I pray that you discover you are foolish so that you may become wise. Every day I seek to be a foolish instrument in His hand, to not be wise in my own eyes, but to grow in wisdom that can only come from His Spirit. I believe this is one of the most important things we can do. It is to listen to the mouth of babes, it is to listen to the fools around us, but to be instructed by the Spirit of God. He is alive. He continually declares the things of Christ to us. Know His voice. He alone is your Teacher. Listen for His voice in those around you especially those who He highlights to you. Remember it is the honor we show that allows us to receive each others reward. Even Paul was loathe to correct in person preferring to use a letter whenever possible. Let us follow his example. I pray that we will be people of honor and trust. True Bereans that seek Scripture eagerly with all readiness and not skepticism. But that we would grow in fullness of being like our Lord. And the world will know the reality of Who He is. I've enjoyed my time with most of you. Thank you for sharing with me and letting me share with you. May the gospel of His Kingdom invade your lives and in those the Lord places around you. Bless you all!

Christopher

 

[UnderGrace]

Because it is so much better to blame God. Oh God doesn't want you well... that's just SO much better.

Blame God, there is a big difference between accepting and blaming.

I agree Roger was out of line in that list post, I should have read more closely had to unlike, even though I agree with some of what he wrote.

God does not need us to defend Him, His ways are perfect, this is how we abide in Him. Abiding in Him is the key and if we are sick He gives strength even when healing does not come so that He is glorified.

It is all about bringing Glory to Him and healing is only one way, but not the only way!

 

[eph610]

Because it is so much better to blame God. Oh God doesn't want you well... that's just SO much better.

I never blamed God for the health trial I went through, I trusted him and counted it all joy, just as the Word told me to.
It was a beautiful time of intimacy and fellowship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and I would not trade it for anything.

 

[eph610]

Spot on post!

During my trial, I found myself praying John 17.1, Father glorify me in this hour so that I may glorify you

 

[notuptome]

Because it is so much better to blame God. Oh God doesn't want you well... that's just SO much better.

Roger,

You're obviously bitter about something. Your snide remarks are not appreciated. I've already told you this once. I suggest you get right with God.

I'm not one bit concerned about exposure, what do you condemn me for? For believing Scripture? For believing God when He says He will heal all of our diseases??? Then so be it. I pray you forgive whoever has caused you harm. But I'm done with your defilement.

I have nothing but pity for you. It is not me that is harmed but the Lord Jesus.

You have been seduced by the new age mysticism that teaches it can make God do what they want when they want it. You defile yourself not me.

What is the OP left with? Has any encouraged him or have all suggested it's his fault?

God heals to proclaim His righteousness. God withholds healing to proclaim His righteousness. It is Gods righteousness not mans righteousness. It is God Who is faithful not man.

Until we are in the kingdom of God there will be sickness and disease.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LaurenTM]

Thanks Lauren!

I agree with all you said. here is another side note to my walk through of this health crisis.

I asked God to give me the strength to go to the Bible College graduation of 2 of our spiritual daughters who serve in ministry with us. I was in severe pain and it was only about the 2nd week of the trial. I promised our 2 daughters I would be there and relied on the grace of God to get me there.

I have been used to lay hands on the sick and they have recovered and I have asked elders of the church to anoint me with oil and pray for me. At all times when it came to healing on being used to deliver or receive it, the anointing on the hands was warm and sometimes comfortable hot to the touch. Remember this, I am going somewhere here.

We got to church for the graduation and I sat down and a WOF lady was sitting right in front of me that I did not know. I only knew her from her reputation and that was she is a self professed WOF teacher, evangelist and healer in our area. She went to a very famous WOF Bible School in OKand follows Ken Hagin Jr. and Kenneth Copeland and is ordained by Kenneth Copeland.

She was wearing all black a low cut top, revealing cleavage, and heavy black eye liner, and dyed black hair and immediate discernment is the same I get when confronted or sitting by any heavily involved WOFer, not anything good, only darkness and a coldness. So she turns to her husband and says some one around us has a neck injury and we must pray for their faith.

She turns around looks at me and my wife and proceeds to lecture us that my faith is woefully small and that I am already healed and need to walk it out. She then continued to tell me through a "word of Knowledge' that my diet and hidden sins caused the issue. Everything she said about my diet was wrong, because I eat very well. My wife asked her to mind her own business and she told us she would pray for my healing and the spirit of witchcraft off my wife because of her "rebellion"

Before I could do anything she was in her front of me pulling me and my wife up and I told her, DO NOT LAY HANDS ON ME AT ALL!!! like most WOFers she ignored that laid hands on the back of my neck and began praying. Her hands, were ice cold and the energy that tied to invade my body was ice cold. As she was praying her eyes opened and she dropped her hands from my neck and almost could not breathe and was staring at me like she had just seen a ghost. I looked her square in the eyes and told her, yeah thats right, you are feeling and seeing the Holy Ghost, now in the name of Jesus back off and get away from me witch. She and her husband scurried back to their seats and never said a word the rest of the service.

Almost immediately when she grabbed me the Holy Spirit told me one word: Witch

He then said fear not, you are protected allow her to continue for I will show her who I am through you.
My wife said later she was witch and had come against her in prayer.

3 weeks later one of our spiritual daughters told us, wow I was on the platform waiting for service to begin and saw the witch attempting to come against you. We had never said a word to her about the issue

Many will come in my name...do not be mislead

TO be clear, normally I would never allow a stranger to lay hands on me, let a lone a woman that is not my wife

there are people walking around, that others look up to, that are either pretending to be Christians and operating in another spirit, or, someone who is seduced and deceived and seducing and deceiving others...but boy oh boy...let's not go there!

I don't go into all that I know or have experienced, but I don't come by it the easy way.

I don't like to say too much because I don't want to hurt others or offend them and often enough, they will see your warning as not of God...so, best to pray and just rebuke what you know is not of God under your breath..that works too!

but you sure had an open confrontation...

I can't even say all I know LOL!...only to those I know and trust who know I am not looney haha

witch, can actually be a witch, or a Christian operating in the wrong spirit...but some people praying in tongues give me the willy nillies...you can always tell

there is no end to it...

 

[eph610]

there are people walking around, that others look up to, that are either pretending to be Christians and operating in another spirit, or, someone who is seduced and deceived and seducing and deceiving others...but boy oh boy...let's not go there!

I don't go into all that I know or have experienced, but I don't come by it the easy way.

I don't like to say too much because I don't want to hurt others or offend them and often enough, they will see your warning as not of God...so, best to pray and just rebuke what you know is not of God under your breath..that works too!

but you sure had an open confrontation...

I can't even say all I know LOL!...only to those I know and trust who know I am not looney haha

witch, can actually be a witch, or a Christian operating in the wrong spirit...but some people praying in tongues give me the willy nillies...you can always tell

there is no end to it...

I know the voice of the shepherd and the voice of the stranger I do not follow.

I appreciate what you are saying between the lines and will accept that wisdom.

 

[Cee]

If God was withholding healing for His righteousness, why would anyone go to a doctor?

But I do agree on one point. Sickness and disease will be removed when the Kingdom of God comes. I agree.

Mark 1:15 And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

Why did Jesus say some will not taste of death before the Kingdom comes? Because Holy Spirit came with power.

Here's Paul explaining the Kingdom of God is already here:

1 Co 4:19But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

Even Paul says we need to stop all this talk. And reveal the power of God.

So yes, I agree when the KINGDOM of God is manifested the WILL of God is as well. So while it is God's Will that people be healed it is the POWER Of God that manifests it.

That's why we are commanded to pray like thus:

Matt 6:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Pray then like this:


“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[SUP][b][/SUP]
on earth as it is in heaven.

There is sickness on Earth, but not in Heaven. So we are praying for Earth to be like Heaven. Where there is NO sickness.

And the Kingdom of God in Holy Spirit?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Which of these Scriptures do you not agree with? I fully realize you are waiting for the Kingdom to come with Jesus, and yes that is true, but that's not why Jesus left. He actually left so that Holy Spirit could COME.

John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

So while you think arguing against the things of the Spirit is furthering the Kingdom of God you are actually opposing it. Because the things of the Spirit ARE the Kingdom of God. We are NOT defending ourselves against the enemy, we are ATTACKING and judging the works of the enemy. Or did you not read this Scripture?

Mark 3:22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” 23And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. 27But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

What are the goods of the enemy? The CAPTIVES!


28“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”


Coming against the Spirit of God is never a good thing.

And in case you think we are still on the defense have you read this?

17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[SUP]b[/SUP] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[SUP]c[/SUP] shall not prevail against it.

Gates don't attack. We do.

And here's how we attack.

19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

We've been given the keys to come against the schemes of the enemy. But first we have to SEE what the enemy is doing! The enemy is trying to say, oh if you say it's the enemy you condemn people stuff, NO! It's the enemy not the people. We come against him! In the name of Jesus, we cast out the enemy!

Do you think only the disciples had to come against the enemy? And now suddenly we don't? Because we have a bigger book? Seriously? This entire thing has been twisted!

We are to be PRAYING for the Will of God to manifest here on Earth. That means the Will of God is not ALWAYS being manifested here on Earth. Because if it was, Jesus wouldn't have NEEDED to trick the enemy. And ALL would be saved. It is the enemy who BLINDS the eyes of men from the glorious gospel.

If the WILL of God was fully manifested here on Earth as it is in Heaven, there would be NO sickness.

AND NO! I am not convincing God to heal the sick. I am believing that when HIS WILL is fully manifested (HIS KINGDOM) that people are NOT sick. Because there is NO sickness in Christ. Are we in Christ or not? You say well yes we are in the Spirit, but not in the soul and the flesh. AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

You say oh we will suffer, did Jesus suffer with sickness? NO. How did Jesus suffer then?

Matt 16:21From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Jesus suffered because of the RELIGIOUS people of His day. And why did they come against Him? Because He made Himself equal with God, they thought He told God what to do, but He didn't HE AGREED WITH GOD'S WILL. And that's why the KINGDOM of God was at hand and within... because it's connected to His Will like I showed you in the Lord's prayer.

WHEN THE ENEMY IS VANQUISHED THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL BE FULLY MANIFESTED. So why do you think God uses sickness??

Don't you understand Revelation is a picture of the KING and thus the Kingdom of God manifesting. There is no death or sickness? Why because those are ENEMIES not friends of God. God IS Life.

Why do you think JESUS gave the keys of the Kingdom to us? To bind what IS NOT in Heaven and Loose what IS in Heaven? Because the KINGDOM of God IS being manifested here on Earth! THROUGH US! Through HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Don't you understand this Scripture?

Acts 2:17“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Or this one???

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Please not this is NOT the new Earth. And the glory of God is already covering the Earth. It is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory that will cover the Earth.

What is this KNOWLEDGE???

Jeremiah 31:34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

How do you know the Lord??? Through His Spirit! Come on!

1 Co 2:7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Co 2:11For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

1 Co 2:16“For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Are you in that WE? I know I am. My eyes have been opened to the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God. This is the Kingdom of God!

Why did Paul pray THIS prayer?

Ephesians 1:16I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe

It's so we can SEE the glory of God in our own lives! Remember the knowledge of His glory is FILLING the Earth. Your life preaches Christ! Why else do you think YOU ARE AN EPISTLE READ BY MEN?

Do you not see that your life is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory? You are FILLED by the Lord of Glory! And when you AGREE with Him His Kingdom manifest IN your life and THROUGH your life!

Your life is to be read by all! Who's the ALL? Why is creation eagerly waiting for the manifestation of the sons of glory?

2 Co 3:2You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Co 3:7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?

THE MINISTRY OF THE SPIRIT! Has even MORE glory on it. Remember knowledge of HIS GLORY covering the Earth? Remember Spirit of God on ALL flesh? Remember then sons and daughters will PROPHESY and see the things of God!!!

I won't even go into Revelation, but remember God is an ALL consuming fire.

Back to the glory!

2 Co3: 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Who is convicting us of righteousness? HOLY SPIRIT IS. This IS the ministry of righteousness! The Kingdom of God is working it's way THROUGH you. So that as you see the LORD who is SPIRIT.

2 Co 3:16But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17Now the Lord[SUP]d[/SUP] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

2 Co 3:18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Please NOTE the Spirit of God working His way through our lives! Please NOTE the Kingdom of God is in the Spirit of God! Please NOTE the Will of God and the Kingdom of God connected! Please NOTE that in the LAST DAYS His Spirit is being poured out on all flesh! Please NOTE that we are entering into a HEAVENLY KINGDOM in CHRIST!

Or do you not understand THIS Scripture?

Acts 17:2 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Why do you think Paul said he was CRUCIFIED to the world? Because when you enter into His Kingdom, in Christ, in the Spirit of God, when you die to this world and it's fleshly conclusions!

So YES I agree when the KINGDOM OF GOD is fully manifested there will be NO sickness. We have His Spirit! And in His Spirit is the Kingdom of God! The Spirit of God is the one who transforms us, who heals us, who sets us free! And we are to pray for His Will to be done here! And that INCLUDES healing! And when the enemy who brings sickness comes, we are to come against Him with the authority and power of God! All of creation is waiting for the SONS (and DAUGHTERS) of God to be manifested!

And that includes you. And as you turn to His Spirit, the Lord of Glory, the knowledge of His glory is seen on the Earth.

C.

 

[notuptome]

If God was withholding healing for His righteousness, why would anyone go to a doctor?

But I do agree on one point. Sickness and disease will be removed when the Kingdom of God comes. I agree.

Mark 1:15 And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

Why did Jesus say some will not taste of death before the Kingdom comes? Because Holy Spirit came with power.

Here's Paul explaining the Kingdom of God is already here:

1 Co 4:19But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

Even Paul says we need to stop all this talk. And reveal the power of God.

So yes, I agree when the KINGDOM of God is manifested the WILL of God is as well. So while it is God's Will that people be healed it is the POWER Of God that manifests it.

That's why we are commanded to pray like thus:

Matt 6:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Pray then like this:


“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[SUP][b][/SUP]
on earth as it is in heaven.

There is sickness on Earth, but not in Heaven. So we are praying for Earth to be like Heaven. Where there is NO sickness.

And the Kingdom of God in Holy Spirit?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Which of these Scriptures do you not agree with? I fully realize you are waiting for the Kingdom to come with Jesus, and yes that is true, but that's not why Jesus left. He actually left so that Holy Spirit could COME.

John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

So while you think arguing against the things of the Spirit is furthering the Kingdom of God you are actually opposing it. Because the things of the Spirit ARE the Kingdom of God. We are NOT defending ourselves against the enemy, we are ATTACKING and judging the works of the enemy. Or did you not read this Scripture?

Mark 3:22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” 23And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. 27But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

What are the goods of the enemy? The CAPTIVES!


28“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”


Coming against the Spirit of God is never a good thing.

And in case you think we are still on the defense have you read this?

17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[SUP]b[/SUP] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[SUP]c[/SUP] shall not prevail against it.

Gates don't attack. We do.

And here's how we attack.

19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

We've been given the keys to come against the schemes of the enemy. But first we have to SEE what the enemy is doing! The enemy is trying to say, oh if you say it's the enemy you condemn people stuff, NO! It's the enemy not the people. We come against him! In the name of Jesus, we cast out the enemy!

Do you think only the disciples had to come against the enemy? And now suddenly we don't? Because we have a bigger book? Seriously? This entire thing has been twisted!

We are to be PRAYING for the Will of God to manifest here on Earth. That means the Will of God is not ALWAYS being manifested here on Earth. Because if it was, Jesus wouldn't have NEEDED to trick the enemy. And ALL would be saved. It is the enemy who BLINDS the eyes of men from the glorious gospel.

If the WILL of God was fully manifested here on Earth as it is in Heaven, there would be NO sickness.

AND NO! I am not convincing God to heal the sick. I am believing that when HIS WILL is fully manifested (HIS KINGDOM) that people are NOT sick. Because there is NO sickness in Christ. Are we in Christ or not? You say well yes we are in the Spirit, but not in the soul and the flesh. AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

You say oh we will suffer, did Jesus suffer with sickness? NO. How did Jesus suffer then?

Matt 16:21From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Jesus suffered because of the RELIGIOUS people of His day. And why did they come against Him? Because He made Himself equal with God, they thought He told God what to do, but He didn't HE AGREED WITH GOD'S WILL. And that's why the KINGDOM of God was at hand and within... because it's connected to His Will like I showed you in the Lord's prayer.

WHEN THE ENEMY IS VANQUISHED THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL BE FULLY MANIFESTED. So why do you think God uses sickness??

Don't you understand Revelation is a picture of the KING and thus the Kingdom of God manifesting. There is no death or sickness? Why because those are ENEMIES not friends of God. God IS Life.

Why do you think JESUS gave the keys of the Kingdom to us? To bind what IS NOT in Heaven and Loose what IS in Heaven? Because the KINGDOM of God IS being manifested here on Earth! THROUGH US! Through HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Don't you understand this Scripture?

Acts 2:17“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Or this one???

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Please not this is NOT the new Earth. And the glory of God is already covering the Earth. It is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory that will cover the Earth.

What is this KNOWLEDGE???

Jeremiah 31:34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

How do you know the Lord??? Through His Spirit! Come on!

1 Co 2:7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Co 2:11For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

1 Co 2:16“For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Are you in that WE? I know I am. My eyes have been opened to the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God. This is the Kingdom of God!

Why did Paul pray THIS prayer?

Ephesians 1:16I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe

It's so we can SEE the glory of God in our own lives! Remember the knowledge of His glory is FILLING the Earth. Your life preaches Christ! Why else do you think YOU ARE AN EPISTLE READ BY MEN?

Do you not see that your life is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory? You are FILLED by the Lord of Glory! And when you AGREE with Him His Kingdom manifest IN your life and THROUGH your life!

Your life is to be read by all! Who's the ALL? Why is creation eagerly waiting for the manifestation of the sons of glory?

2 Co 3:2You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Co 3:7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?

THE MINISTRY OF THE SPIRIT! Has even MORE glory on it. Remember knowledge of HIS GLORY covering the Earth? Remember Spirit of God on ALL flesh? Remember then sons and daughters will PROPHESY and see the things of God!!!

I won't even go into Revelation, but remember God is an ALL consuming fire.

Back to the glory!

2 Co3: 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Who is convicting us of righteousness? HOLY SPIRIT IS. This IS the ministry of righteousness! The Kingdom of God is working it's way THROUGH you. So that as you see the LORD who is SPIRIT.

2 Co 3:16But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17Now the Lord[SUP]d[/SUP] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

2 Co 3:18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Please NOTE the Spirit of God working His way through our lives! Please NOTE the Kingdom of God is in the Spirit of God! Please NOTE the Will of God and the Kingdom of God connected! Please NOTE that in the LAST DAYS His Spirit is being poured out on all flesh! Please NOTE that we are entering into a HEAVENLY KINGDOM in CHRIST!

Or do you not understand THIS Scripture?

Acts 17:2 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Why do you think Paul said he was CRUCIFIED to the world? Because when you enter into His Kingdom, in Christ, in the Spirit of God, when you die to this world and it's fleshly conclusions!

So YES I agree when the KINGDOM OF GOD is fully manifested there will be NO sickness. We have His Spirit! And in His Spirit is the Kingdom of God! The Spirit of God is the one who transforms us, who heals us, who sets us free! And we are to pray for His Will to be done here! And that INCLUDES healing! And when the enemy who brings sickness comes, we are to come against Him with the authority and power of God! All of creation is waiting for the SONS (and DAUGHTERS) of God to be manifested!

And that includes you. And as you turn to His Spirit, the Lord of Glory, the knowledge of His glory is seen on the Earth.

C.

No wonder you are messed up. You just took a blender to the bible. You have taken snippets and mixed them together in a meaningless hodge-podge.

Israel not the church looks for a kingdom of God on the earth. The church looks for a kingdom in heaven apart from the earth. Both of these are future expectations not present realities.

All this because you cannot cope with the concept that God may sacrifice your body to sickness and disease to glorify Him.

I have seen great saints of God endure horrific suffering and perish. Despite pain and anguish they remained faithful to the Lord. Rejoicing that their hope was not here but in heaven. A great testimony to their love for Christ and how the Lord comforted them during their suffering.

When testing comes will you endure or will you fold up and collapse?

Your entire theology seems to be that you will exercise your authority to have Christ heal you. You believe that you can compel God to do what you think is right and if God does not obey you then God is in sin.

I will study this further but it is very concerning.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

Cee,

This sounds a lot like kingdom theology. I am not all the up on all this different belief systems, although I am trying, but there are just too many now a days .....but you might as well just say it if that is what you are preaching.

Is this all part of the new apostolic reformation as well or whatever the term is now ...I think it is manifest destiny or Benjamin Generation that is also preached in some circles.

If God was withholding healing for His righteousness, why would anyone go to a doctor?

But I do agree on one point. Sickness and disease will be removed when the Kingdom of God comes. I agree.

Mark 1:15 And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

Why did Jesus say some will not taste of death before the Kingdom comes? Because Holy Spirit came with power.

Here's Paul explaining the Kingdom of God is already here:

1 Co 4:19But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

Even Paul says we need to stop all this talk. And reveal the power of God.

So yes, I agree when the KINGDOM of God is manifested the WILL of God is as well. So while it is God's Will that people be healed it is the POWER Of God that manifests it.

That's why we are commanded to pray like thus:

Matt 6:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Pray then like this:


“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[SUP][b][/SUP]
on earth as it is in heaven.

There is sickness on Earth, but not in Heaven. So we are praying for Earth to be like Heaven. Where there is NO sickness.

And the Kingdom of God in Holy Spirit?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Which of these Scriptures do you not agree with? I fully realize you are waiting for the Kingdom to come with Jesus, and yes that is true, but that's not why Jesus left. He actually left so that Holy Spirit could COME.

John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

So while you think arguing against the things of the Spirit is furthering the Kingdom of God you are actually opposing it. Because the things of the Spirit ARE the Kingdom of God. We are NOT defending ourselves against the enemy, we are ATTACKING and judging the works of the enemy. Or did you not read this Scripture?

Mark 3:22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” 23And he called them to him and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. 27But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.

What are the goods of the enemy? The CAPTIVES!


28“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”


Coming against the Spirit of God is never a good thing.

And in case you think we are still on the defense have you read this?

17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[SUP]b[/SUP] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[SUP]c[/SUP] shall not prevail against it.

Gates don't attack. We do.

And here's how we attack.

19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

We've been given the keys to come against the schemes of the enemy. But first we have to SEE what the enemy is doing! The enemy is trying to say, oh if you say it's the enemy you condemn people stuff, NO! It's the enemy not the people. We come against him! In the name of Jesus, we cast out the enemy!

Do you think only the disciples had to come against the enemy? And now suddenly we don't? Because we have a bigger book? Seriously? This entire thing has been twisted!

We are to be PRAYING for the Will of God to manifest here on Earth. That means the Will of God is not ALWAYS being manifested here on Earth. Because if it was, Jesus wouldn't have NEEDED to trick the enemy. And ALL would be saved. It is the enemy who BLINDS the eyes of men from the glorious gospel.

If the WILL of God was fully manifested here on Earth as it is in Heaven, there would be NO sickness.

AND NO! I am not convincing God to heal the sick. I am believing that when HIS WILL is fully manifested (HIS KINGDOM) that people are NOT sick. Because there is NO sickness in Christ. Are we in Christ or not? You say well yes we are in the Spirit, but not in the soul and the flesh. AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

You say oh we will suffer, did Jesus suffer with sickness? NO. How did Jesus suffer then?

Matt 16:21From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Jesus suffered because of the RELIGIOUS people of His day. And why did they come against Him? Because He made Himself equal with God, they thought He told God what to do, but He didn't HE AGREED WITH GOD'S WILL. And that's why the KINGDOM of God was at hand and within... because it's connected to His Will like I showed you in the Lord's prayer.

WHEN THE ENEMY IS VANQUISHED THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL BE FULLY MANIFESTED. So why do you think God uses sickness??

Don't you understand Revelation is a picture of the KING and thus the Kingdom of God manifesting. There is no death or sickness? Why because those are ENEMIES not friends of God. God IS Life.

Why do you think JESUS gave the keys of the Kingdom to us? To bind what IS NOT in Heaven and Loose what IS in Heaven? Because the KINGDOM of God IS being manifested here on Earth! THROUGH US! Through HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Don't you understand this Scripture?

Acts 2:17“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Or this one???

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Please not this is NOT the new Earth. And the glory of God is already covering the Earth. It is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory that will cover the Earth.

What is this KNOWLEDGE???

Jeremiah 31:34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

How do you know the Lord??? Through His Spirit! Come on!

1 Co 2:7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Co 2:11For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

1 Co 2:16“For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Are you in that WE? I know I am. My eyes have been opened to the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God. This is the Kingdom of God!

Why did Paul pray THIS prayer?

Ephesians 1:16I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe

It's so we can SEE the glory of God in our own lives! Remember the knowledge of His glory is FILLING the Earth. Your life preaches Christ! Why else do you think YOU ARE AN EPISTLE READ BY MEN?

Do you not see that your life is the KNOWLEDGE of His glory? You are FILLED by the Lord of Glory! And when you AGREE with Him His Kingdom manifest IN your life and THROUGH your life!

Your life is to be read by all! Who's the ALL? Why is creation eagerly waiting for the manifestation of the sons of glory?

2 Co 3:2You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Co 3:7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?

THE MINISTRY OF THE SPIRIT! Has even MORE glory on it. Remember knowledge of HIS GLORY covering the Earth? Remember Spirit of God on ALL flesh? Remember then sons and daughters will PROPHESY and see the things of God!!!

I won't even go into Revelation, but remember God is an ALL consuming fire.

Back to the glory!

2 Co3: 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Who is convicting us of righteousness? HOLY SPIRIT IS. This IS the ministry of righteousness! The Kingdom of God is working it's way THROUGH you. So that as you see the LORD who is SPIRIT.

2 Co 3:16But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17Now the Lord[SUP]d[/SUP] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

2 Co 3:18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Please NOTE the Spirit of God working His way through our lives! Please NOTE the Kingdom of God is in the Spirit of God! Please NOTE the Will of God and the Kingdom of God connected! Please NOTE that in the LAST DAYS His Spirit is being poured out on all flesh! Please NOTE that we are entering into a HEAVENLY KINGDOM in CHRIST!

Or do you not understand THIS Scripture?

Acts 17:2 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Why do you think Paul said he was CRUCIFIED to the world? Because when you enter into His Kingdom, in Christ, in the Spirit of God, when you die to this world and it's fleshly conclusions!

So YES I agree when the KINGDOM OF GOD is fully manifested there will be NO sickness. We have His Spirit! And in His Spirit is the Kingdom of God! The Spirit of God is the one who transforms us, who heals us, who sets us free! And we are to pray for His Will to be done here! And that INCLUDES healing! And when the enemy who brings sickness comes, we are to come against Him with the authority and power of God! All of creation is waiting for the SONS (and DAUGHTERS) of God to be manifested!

And that includes you. And as you turn to His Spirit, the Lord of Glory, the knowledge of His glory is seen on the Earth.

C.

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually is seems to me we are entering into the kingdom of the anti-christ....although it would be nice if it were not so!!

 

[Cee]

No, my entire theology is about AGREEING with God so His Kingdom will be manifested here on Earth. I already have an illness my friend, but I don't attribute it to God's will. I rejoice in the freedom in Christ. And I believe more and more as His Kingdom manifests in my life, His Will be more and more fully manifested. Do I seem at all upset at God? I took a "blender" of the Bible because when dealing with "paradigms" it's important to draw as many connection points as possible.

I will also take entire chapters to discuss context with every single Scripture I posted. I am not trying to get God to do anything! He is actually convincing ME!

But if you take ANYTHING away from the Scriptures I posted it is this, the Will of God, the Kingdom of God, and the Spirit of God are ALL connected. We are lead not by the law, but by the Spirit.

When He says or promises something, WE agree.

Did you know that AMEN means SO BE IT? That's our way of saying, YES, as it is in Heaven so shall it be here on Earth! This is Praying for the Will of God to be here on Earth as it is in Heaven. The Kingdom of God manifesting in us and through us.

This is why OBEDIENCE is so critical to manifesting the Kingdom of God. We come into obedience with the things of the Spirit and of God.

2 Co 1:20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

This Scripture shows us a few things:

1. The promises of God are yes in Christ.
2. We "AMEN" or "AGREE" with them.
3. When they manifest His glory is revealed.

Let's talk more about the glory of God!

John 11:4When Jesus heard this, He said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it."

How was the Son of God glorified through it? By the sickness NOT ending in death!!

And after Lazarus is raised what happens?

John 11:40 Jesus replied, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God.

Here Jesus connects the power of God with believing in Him:
John 10:38 But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."

And this is the same with us, may people know that Christ is in me, and I in Christ. And Christ is in the Father, and the Father is in Him. The Spirit of Christ is now united with our spirit. And working His Kingdom through our soul (renewing the mind), and through our body (healing), and through our friends (discipleship), and through our homes, our work, it is all unto Him.

For the cause of Christ is Christ in us! The hope of glory!

1 Co 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Psa 145:11-12 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom And talk of Your power; To make known to the sons of men Your mighty acts And the glory of the majesty of Your kingdom.

When Moses asked to see the GLORY of God what did the Lord say?

Exodus 33:18-20 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!" And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion." But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

The goodness and kindness of God causes us to turn to Him. And the glory of the Lord, who is Spirit, transforms us into His image from one degree of glory to another. This is the ministry of RIGHTEOUSNESS. And it is glorious.

No wonder you are messed up. You just took a blender to the bible. You have taken snippets and mixed them together in a meaningless hodge-podge.

Israel not the church looks for a kingdom of God on the earth. The church looks for a kingdom in heaven apart from the earth. Both of these are future expectations not present realities.

All this because you cannot cope with the concept that God may sacrifice your body to sickness and disease to glorify Him.

I have seen great saints of God endure horrific suffering and perish. Despite pain and anguish they remained faithful to the Lord. Rejoicing that their hope was not here but in heaven. A great testimony to their love for Christ and how the Lord comforted them during their suffering.

When testing comes will you endure or will you fold up and collapse?

Your entire theology seems to be that you will exercise your authority to have Christ heal you. You believe that you can compel God to do what you think is right and if God does not obey you then God is in sin.

I will study this further but it is very concerning.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

It strikes me that Cee does not believe we are following his revelation, and
his long explanation will convince us.

It is not clear what he is saying other than perhaps the Latter reign concept
of NAR and other movements.

The fact they all want these massive explanations which do not quite add up
shows their enthusiasm but not sense.