Chosen by God - A study in Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
No man is denied grace and if they seek they shall find and they can chose to believe the Gospel that they hear.

How does a Calvinist even know they are saved... when they cannot believe.

I heard the Gospel and I chose to believe it for myself as truth and then I was regenerated.

God did not force me to believe, I responded to what I heard......... and guess what...... the Gospel was explained so well to me that I understood completely what I heard.

That is basic scriptural truth.
Eph 2:1 & 5 will not harmonize with your statement.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
I have stated this too multiple times.... LOL

Same like when "all" doesn't really mean "all" but then it does mean "all" sometimes.
You choose to ignore the verses of Scripture, wherein the language of Predestination and Election are clearly taught. Anyone who is truly seeking to understand God's Word cannot ignore any Scripture but must harmonize all of God's Word in order to come to the Truth.

You that argue that "all" must mean "all", in every case, are either not interested in harmonizing anything or are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Any good student of Scripture, knows that "all" must be either accepted as "all", if the context supports it or must be limited, if the context supports that.

How can the word "all" always mean "all" in the light of those verses which clearly teach God having chosen? God having Predestinated some? God using Election to obtain what those who were seeking, did not find?

I choose to not ignore these facts, if you do, then that's between you and God but this is no reason to belittle others. As a Christian, life has taught me, that when people resort to belittling another, it is because the facts no longer support their position.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
You treat the Word hypocritically, in one place what you take as the surface read is "clear and precise" yet in others such as John 3:16 you must amend it to fit with your doctrine.

I didn't say conditional election were true, but that if your use of the verses in 6:64-65 were to support any sort of election it would be conditional election. You forwarded those verses under a discussion on election so to then add the limiter that they are not speaking eternally but only to Jesus' ministry is backpeddaling. Are they supposed to demonstrate election or not?
I knew I shouldn't have replied to your comments. I pray the Lord forgive me for being foolish and doing so.
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
You choose to ignore the verses of Scripture, wherein the language of Predestination and Election are clearly taught. Anyone who is truly seeking to understand God's Word cannot ignore any Scripture but must harmonize all of God's Word in order to come to the Truth.

You that argue that "all" must mean "all", in every case, are either not interested in harmonizing anything or are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Any good student of Scripture, knows that "all" must be either accepted as "all", if the context supports it or must be limited, if the context supports that.

How can the word "all" always mean "all" in the light of those verses which clearly teach God having chosen? God having Predestinated some? God using Election to obtain what those who were seeking, did not find?

I choose to not ignore these facts, if you do, then that's between you and God but this is no reason to belittle others. As a Christian, life has taught me, that when people resort to belittling another, it is because the facts no longer support their position.

I also agree about the belittling.....I have been guilty of that also,God showed me it serves no purpose....be humble before the Lord,that way I haven gotten closer to hearing his word.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
I also agree about the belittling.....I have been guilty of that also,God showed me it serves no purpose....be humble before the Lord,that way I haven gotten closer to hearing his word.
Yes, I to have been drawn down by the foolishness of others. True believers, can never raise a dead person to higher heights, they are usually pulled down by there craftiness. If you get into a conversation with those in the world and love the world, it is always the Christian who falls into their way of talking after to much exposure. The person of the world, never becomes more godly in their speech. This is why we are instructed to separate ourselves from those who think like the world.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,674
8,221
113
I also agree about the belittling.....I have been guilty of that also,God showed me it serves no purpose....be humble before the Lord,that way I haven gotten closer to hearing his word.
Guilty as charged. But I think I'm getting better I really do.
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
Guilty as charged. But I think I'm getting better I really do.

You are,I haven’t seen you be rude,not once.....in fact,it makes me want to read your posts more....but as soon as a certain member comes in here,with the derogatory remarks.......I react at times but am learning not to,as it serves no purpose whatsoever.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,754
4,119
113
63
I also agree about the belittling.....I have been guilty of that also,God showed me it serves no purpose....be humble before the Lord,that way I haven gotten closer to hearing his word.
Me to , not long before you :)...
All the glory to God Amen...

I can see how much you are growing in the word @jackrosie ...
...xox...
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You choose to ignore the verses of Scripture, wherein the language of Predestination and Election are clearly taught. Anyone who is truly seeking to understand God's Word cannot ignore any Scripture but must harmonize all of God's Word in order to come to the Truth.

You that argue that "all" must mean "all", in every case, are either not interested in harmonizing anything or are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Any good student of Scripture, knows that "all" must be either accepted as "all", if the context supports it or must be limited, if the context supports that.

How can the word "all" always mean "all" in the light of those verses which clearly teach God having chosen? God having Predestinated some? God using Election to obtain what those who were seeking, did not find?

I choose to not ignore these facts, if you do, then that's between you and God but this is no reason to belittle others. As a Christian, life has taught me, that when people resort to belittling another, it is because the facts no longer support their position.
Here is your dogma in a nutshell

Grace is extended to only some, those that God has pre-selected.

In your dogma if you present it accurately it is....

Jane Smith is deliberately foreordained to commit her sins
Is hated by God
Is predestined to hell because God withholds His Grace, salvation is intentionally ``out of reach`` for her.
Is deliberately excluded from the atoning sacrifice of Jesus
Jane Smith will be judged by a god and sent to hell because he favored someone else over her
This is a god who essentially goes against his own commandments where believers are called to love those he hates?

Tell me do not see a problem here?
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
please could you explain this in plain English? thanks. :)
Those who forward unconditional election play a game with Scripture where their interpretation is the "plain language" one place, and another they must supply additional words to fit their doctrine. They mishandle Scripture by treating it unevenly so that it bends to fit their doctrine.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Romans 1 does not have reference to the spiritually dead man, but to the regenerated man.
Could you explain how romans 1 is referring only to people born again? ( We.ll lay aside the fact no one was ' born again ' until after the resurrection)
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
Sorry that's not working for me. I think you're missing the point of the passages. A very significant and profound point.
A point you're reading into the text that need not be there. The reason reformed think the "plain text" supports their position is because they never remove the modern biased lenses. They never see past their indoctrination to look for particular election and see the text as the ancients would have seen it. They never take the time to read any theology outside of the Augustine-Luther-Calvin heritage or connect with other views of Scripture. There's a reason that particular election didn't become an issue until after Calvin, and why free will was never an issue until Augustine. These things are men's rationalizing God's purposes and twisting God into the image of themselves rather than the true plan of God.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
I do notice that those supposed Christians who reject the doctrine of election are very prone to criticizing God the Father, hurling condemnations such as:
-hypocrite
-unjust
-merciless
-unfair
-tyrannical

Such condemnations are diametrically opposed to what the Bible says about God the Father.
So let me ask you: are these condemnations coming from these detractors as a result of the Spirit testifying with our spirit? To make matters worse, if the doctrine of election is true (which I am certain that it is) why are these people not being taught of God to believe it?
We're not criticizing God the Father, we're criticizing the monster you try to twist Him into. The idea that God's sovereignty is His principle attribute and that power is sufficient to represent His glory is counter to His revealed nature. God's glory is in His loving care for all of His creation, in His perfect justice. If a system forwards a god that is void of those qualities it is not God but an idol. Calvin's god has no bearing on the true God and is nothing more than man's fantasy to have power over another man, which is exactly why the Geneva council was so horrendous putting men to death rather than being a true representation of Christ on Earth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
Romans 1 does not have reference to the spiritually dead man, but to the regenerated man.
Really? How could anyone arrive at that conclusion? Romans 1 is all about those who rejected the truth about God and were spiritually blinded. Thus God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Their foolish hearts were darkened.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (v 21)

If you were unable to discern this, then you should really go back to square one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.