Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

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Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Hebrews 12
A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken

18For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assemblya of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
The covenant of Hebrews 12 is talking about the blood covenant. That has arrived

ZECH.9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definately prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

old testament...blood of bulls and goats; the shadow of Christ

He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And theres the 2nd

Nothing to do with the Covenant of Hebrews 8
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
No, I don't believe they are going to hell. First of all, I don't believe in the fairy tale of an everburning hell. That is a rehash of the book The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri. Secondly, I don't believe this is the only day of salvation. In fact, I thin kthat this is the day of the early small harvest. I really believe there will be some, but a very few who go into the Lake of Fire. They will, in full understanding, choose NOT to go the way of God. Most today are not choosing death in full consciousness...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Most today are not choosing death in full consciousness.
lol that's another thread whether hell is forever or not.
so where are they be? Christ said they are people who is gonna be blessed by Him, didn't He?
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

old testament...blood of bulls and goats; the shadow of Christ

He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And theres the 2nd

Nothing to do with the Covenant of Hebrews 8
You should know that simply by reading Hebrews 8

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Hebrews 8 was written after the risen Christ and it clearly says "Behold the days come". Its not here yet. Its coming
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Who are you to say someone's belief is heresy.


read about the dog pack in miscellaneous? It would do you good. It is very familiar.
what a hypocrite you are.

defending DUAL COVENANT heresies...then calling people dog packers (which incidentally is not what you think it is unless you're accusing me of being a male homosexual).

why don't you listen to Shaul?
he talked about heresy, and he talked dogs.


Philippians 3
Righteousness Through Faith in Christ

1Finally, my brothers,a rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.

2Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

......

rubbish is actually excrement.

"though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless."

all that RIGHTEOUSNESS.....he counted it all - all that former life as dung.

and who were the dogs he warned about?

and what heresy was he warning of?

are you calling Paul a false teacher and a dog?

Galatians 1
No Other Gospel

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servantb of Christ.

Paul Called by God
11For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.c 12For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

13For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when he who had set me apart before I was born,d and who called me by his grace, 16was pleased to reveal his Son toe me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;f 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I believe Yeshua, not a bunch of sculptured words utilized from the Word to form an idol. The Blood of Christ is all anyone need understand for salvation, not an orchestrated theology of man, not even of yours.

If you wish to push your theology, that being the Lutheran religion, then you ought to do so in your own web page.

May Yahweh bless you by the Blood of Yeshua.


Now rather than accuse and liable more, why not show where the Word teaches Jesus Christ is the Sabbath of God, the Seventh Day and not simply the rest (sabbath) which is a word not fully translated in most versions of the Bible....
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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hey wall:

do you agree with your pal:

"Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. It is ready to and will at the return of Christ."

???
Yes at His return. As His people are gathered (1Cor.15) for the 1000yr period of rest. I believe scriptures below


EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.


DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

Yes Zone after Christ returns. The gathering to the 1000 yr period of rest. Verse 8- Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. That includes HIS Sabbath Zone

ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP before me, saith the Lord.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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yes, people hate God. including you (unless you are not people now).
only way to love God of course if you have been justified by the Holy Spirit, God himself.
Well, almost...

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And I suspect that is what you meant.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
Well, almost...

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And I suspect that is what you meant.
yes, this is what I have been talking about for hours lol
anyway according to wall, your friend, you can't receive the Holy Spirit unless firstly you keep the 10 commandments.
i don't know if you agree with him.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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You should know that simply by reading Hebrews 8

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Hebrews 8 was written after the risen Christ and it clearly says "Behold the days come". Its not here yet. Its coming
The interesting part is to whom the Covenant is made with...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Yes at His return. As His people are gathered (1Cor.15) for the 1000yr period of rest. I believe scriptures below


EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.


DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

Yes Zone after Christ returns. The gathering to the 1000 yr period of rest. Verse 8- Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. That includes HIS Sabbath Zone

ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP before me, saith the Lord.

right. so we're still under the old Covenant which wasn't made obsolete [by Christ's Coming, His death and resurrection] and vanished away with the temple and all traces of the Mosaic system in 70AD.

okay.

that means you're not saved.

as for the rest of your dispensationalism



there's no future 1,000 year temporary kingdom after the Lord Comes.
but live in that world if you want to.
hardly anybody ever emerges from it.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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The interesting part is to whom the Covenant is made with...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
FULFILLED - FIRST ADVENT AND PENTECOST < Spirit poured out on THEM - Power from on High.

the wise were saved and became CHRISTIANS.

the gentiles received the gospel and are in the Kingdom already.

the rest died in sin and unbelief.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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yes, this is what I have been talking about for hours lol
anyway according to wall, your friend, you can't receive the Holy Spirit unless firstly you keep the 10 commandments.
i don't know if you agree with him.
Well, I agree with Luke and my friend Wall...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Do you agree with Luke and the Bible?
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
Well, I agree with Luke and my friend Wall...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Do you agree with Luke and the Bible?
Yes, but not to your interpretation.
God has given the Holy Ghost which justifies and saves us, therefore we obey God.
 
J

josh123

Guest
yes, this is what I have been talking about for hours lol
anyway according to wall, your friend, you can't receive the Holy Spirit unless firstly you keep the 10 commandments.
i don't know if you agree with him.
lol... wall said that? when the bible specifically said "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," so please tell me where it says you have to keep the commandment to receive the holy spirit...
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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right. so we're still under the old Covenant which wasn't made obsolete [by Christ's Coming, His death and resurrection] and vanished away with the temple and all traces of the Mosaic system in 70AD.

okay.

that means you're not saved.

as for the rest of your dispensationalism
I just knew you would have one of those new books that were written that change the words "waxeth old" to obsolete.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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lol... wall said that? when the bible specifically said "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," so please tell me where it says you have to keep the commandment to receive the holy spirit...
I just did...Look up a couple of posts to #172
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Yes, but not to your interpretation.
God has given the Holy Ghost which justifies and saves us, therefore we obey God.
Wait, what? All I did was quote the book of Acts. So now it is incorrect?
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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right. so we're still under the old Covenant which wasn't made obsolete [by Christ's Coming, His death and resurrection] and vanished away with the temple and all traces of the Mosaic system in 70AD.

okay.

that means you're not saved.

as for the rest of your dispensationalism
Whats dispensationalism?
 
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josh123

Guest
IF you are saying that in order to be save everyone must first keep the 10 commandments.. then would that be a cult? an ultimate religion? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [h=3]John 3:5 and how does one receive this gift? "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," now please tell me what does keep the commandments have to do with this?[/h]
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
Wait, what? All I did was quote the book of Acts. So now it is incorrect?
No, you only interpret that as you like.
Read Psalms 14 and Romans 3.
There is none righteous no not one.
There is none that seeks after God.
There is none that does good, no not one.
so if all you want is an applaud to your righteousness, welcome to reality.