CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Here is another error. You are equating "action" with "work". They aren't the same. Paul's answer to the jailer absolutely REFUTES your comment here. The jailer was told TO BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus to be saved. What you do is twist that all up to line up with calvinism.
My scriptures harmonize, yours do not.
You are free to claim whatever you want to claim, but until you include a verse that SAYS what you SAY, you have no evidence.

Acts 16:30,31 refutes calvinism totally.
 
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An action of mankind is something that he does.
You still don't understand how the Bible uses "work". Rom 4:4,5 explains it. Work EARNS a wage. Grace doesn't. We are saved by grace, not by works.

When God quickens a spiritually dead person to be a spiritual person, there is no action on the part of the dead man.
God quickens a person who has believed. It is simultaneous or nearly so. But the believing occurs first. That is found in eph 2:5 and 8.

What verse do you think says that regenerate precedes believing?

That is why it is called quickening by God's grace. You are confusing the regenerate mans action to obtain deliverance as he sojourns here in this world, with his eternal deliverance, which requires no action on man's part.
This isn't clear at all. It's confusing.

Saved people don't "obtain deliverance". God delivers believers according to His will.
 
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Not so, if you want the scriptures to harmonize. We are to teach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. not to the unregenerate, because they would not understand it, thinking that it is foolishness.
Your statement is foolish. Everyone is able to understand the gospel, but calvinists seem unable to understand that fact.

When the Bible says that "no one has an excuse", it means people are accountable for their actions.

Why would a person be accountable if he isn't able to make free choices? But I doubt that calvinists would even understand this question.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Prove your claim with Scripture that supports your claim that they were "already born again". You keep giving your opinions, but you haven't provided any verse that says what you say.
The Gentiles already had the law written in their heart.
This doesn't help you. God did that to everyone. The Jews were given the law, but all the non Jews were given the law as well.

This means that anyone and everyone CAN understand God's laws.

The Jews, when they heard Peter's sermon accusing them of crucifying Christ, were pricked in their heart., and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "what must we do" Go read it.
They were convicted in their hearts that they crucified the Messiah!! I believe they were saved at that moment.

The people that heard Steven preach the same sermon, were cut to the heart, and stoned him to death.
Quite a diferent response, huh. They were offended by the truth.

Can you see the different reaction of the fleshy heart, and the heart of stone.
Nice try, but no dice. You are trying to fit your opinions into texts that don't even mention any of this. Unless you have verses that SAY what you SAY, you don't have any evidence.

Both groups were unsaved. One group was convicted by the truth and believed it, but the other group was offended and rejected it.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Only believers will be saved, as I have already proven by verses that say so.
This statement of yours sums up our differences. You believe that the unregenerate person has the ability to understand spiritual things, and I do not believe that they have that ability.

THE NATURAL MAN verses THE SPIRITUAL MAN: 1 Cor 2:14 - cannot discern the things of the Spirit. John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 6:63 - It is the Spirit (God) that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I speak unto you (his disciples) they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:65 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 17:2 - And thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (did he give eternal life to all mankind? )

I will add more later, time for church.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Only believers will be saved, as I have already proven by verses that say so.
This statement of yours sums up our differences.
That is correct. And I have already proven that salvation is through belief in Christ. With a long list of verses that plainly say that.

You believe that the unregenerate person has the ability to understand spiritual things, and I do not believe that they have that ability.
Another difference of ours is that you see the gospel as a spiritual issue, when it is a trust issue.

Because God created mankind with a conscience for understanding good and evil (Rom 2:14,15), no one has an excuse for not believng that God exists (Rom 1:19-21) and that they need salvation (Acts 4:12).

THE NATURAL MAN verses THE SPIRITUAL MAN: 1 Cor 2:14 - cannot discern the things of the Spirit.
The thrust of 1 Cor 2 is that Paul was addressing the spiritually mature believer (v.6) and Paul spoke of "the deep things of God" (v.10).

The gospel is about trusting in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for everyone. Those who believe are saved. 1 Cor 1:21

John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus was telling Nic that those born of the flesh are just that, flesh, but those born of the Spirit have a human spirit which enables them to worship God. John 4:24 and the woman at the well.

John 6:63 - It is the Spirit (God) that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I speak unto you (his disciples) they are spirit, and they are life.
We are born again spiritually by God. Our flesh doesn't profit anything.

John 6:65 - And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Jesus gave us the answer to who will come to Him in John 6:45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

This verse is quite clear. Those who have listened and learned from the Father, who teaches everyone, will come to Him. Says so plainly.

John 17:2 - And thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (did he give eternal life to all mankind? )
John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 all of these verses say plainly that those who believe POSSESS (have) eternal life.

John 10:28 Jesus states that He is the One who gives eternal life. Which is to believers, per the verses above.

I will add more later, time for church.
I just got back. I'll wait for the time zone differences if any. :)
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I asked a question, plz be kind enough to answer. To whom was Romans 11 speaking to??
it’s a letter the whole letter is written to the church at that time at Rome and the letter was the. Circulated through all the churches even today.

the letter is addressed to the church it’s why it’s entitled “ Paul’s epistle to the Romans”

“by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:5-7‬ ‭

There’s no difference in Jew and gentile that’s part of the old creation in Christ there’s no difference

It’s for anyone who believes the gospel all Of the epistles are for anyone who has a heard and believes the gospel for our learning and understanding as are all the prophets for us who believe the gospel

it’s a letter there were no chapters or bereee when it was given so early in the letter Paul’s making this point to the church who believes and wants To and is willing to understand ….

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then a little later after one would hear and accept this point Paul has made he’s explained “ flesh and blood doesn’t make you israel , the promise of Christ makes you Israel”

“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off,

and thou standest by faith.

Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, And shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:20-21, 23, 25-27, 32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s making the point that if we don’t continue in faith we can be cut out like they were . What matters is remaining faithful to God not our flesh or dna

and if they repent and believe the gospel they can be grafted back in if we don’t repent and continue on faith we can be removed and cast out as they were is what he’s saying
thier rejection of him sent the gospel to all and of they repent and accept the one gospel they can also be saved as gentiles were who repent and believe

it’s no impact if one is a former Jew or gentile it means zero now the only thing rhat can save us into his one kingdom is to hear and believe Jesus and the gospel if we’re born a Jew , gentile male female dark skinned light skinned English speaking or Vietnamese speaking none of that matters not

This is what matters

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To believe or not believe that is the question , is your flesh born of an Israeli woman ? Is not the question

this matters and this those who believe either Jew or gentile are israel Gods chosen and are put together with the saints of old and made into one kingdom that will inherit a new and everlasting promised land ahead whole new earth will Be Gods kingdom. And he will walk among us

One creation is doomed is has a covenant of flame and fire

another creation is created by the gospel new people born and promised new things better things than Those that are perishing and doomed to destruction
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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FreeGrace2 said:
Here is another error. You are equating "action" with "work". They aren't the same. Paul's answer to the jailer absolutely REFUTES your comment here. The jailer was told TO BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus to be saved. What you do is twist that all up to line up with calvinism.

You are free to claim whatever you want to claim, but until you include a verse that SAYS what you SAY, you have no evidence.

Acts 16:30,31 refutes calvinism totally.

The Jailer had the same heart as did the Jews that were prick in their heart, and both the Jaller and the Jews responded in the same manner, by asking "what must I do to be saved". I showed you, by scripture, the different response from those that had been born again, with the new fleshy heart that could be pricked to feel guilt (The Jailer and the Jews), and those, that still had the heart of stone, who nashed on Steven with their teeth

Your false interpretation of the scriptures are taking honour away from God, and giving it to man. Saved=delivered. Eternally delivered people can be delivered from their guilty conscience by believing, repenting, accepting, confessing, etc. Which are the works of the regenerate person, not the unregenerate person. None of these works will deliver you eternally.

I pray that more of God's elect people could see, and understand the doctrine that Jesus taught, because it is the most comforting, and God honouring, and the only doctrine of truth.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Please prove this claim with an example that shows disharmony.

You make many claims but you do not provide any verses that SAY what you SAY.

I don't know why you say that. I most always give the book, chapter and verse along with my comments. When you call my hand on those that I fail to do so, I respond back to you with a scripture.

I have proved my comments to harmonize with scripture.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Here is another error. You are equating "action" with "work". They aren't the same. Paul's answer to the jailer absolutely REFUTES your comment here. The jailer was told TO BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus to be saved. What you do is twist that all up to line up with calvinism.

You are free to claim whatever you want to claim, but until you include a verse that SAYS what you SAY, you have no evidence.

Acts 16:30,31 refutes calvinism totally.
The Jailer had the same heart as did the Jews that were prick in their heart, and both the Jaller and the Jews responded in the same manner, by asking "what must I do to be saved".
The text says nothing about the jailer's heart. You are making this up. Stick with what the text says. You're adding things.

I showed you, by scripture, the different response from those that had been born again, with the new fleshy heart that could be pricked to feel guilt (The Jailer and the Jews), and those, that still had the heart of stone, who nashed on Steven with their teeth
You are simply applying other verses to different texts. Without evidence. Stick with the text.

Your false interpretation of the scriptures are taking honour away from God, and giving it to man.
Please explain carefully how I take honor away from God and give it to man. That is ridiculous. It is God's plan to save those who believe.

Saved=delivered. Eternally delivered people can be delivered from their guilty conscience by believing, repenting, accepting, confessing, etc. Which are the works of the regenerate person, not the unregenerate person. None of these works will deliver you eternally.
I don't need more of this preaching. I know very well what the the word means in various texts.

I pray that more of God's elect people could see, and understand the doctrine that Jesus taught, because it is the most comforting, and God honouring, and the only doctrine of truth.
So, there's only 1 doctrine of truth? Could you boil it down to a sentence or few?
 

ForestGreenCook

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You still don't understand how the Bible uses "work". Rom 4:4,5 explains it. Work EARNS a wage. Grace doesn't. We are saved by grace, not by works.

Not according to your interpretations of scripture, such as Gal 2:16 where you change the wording to make Jesus faith, to be your faith, making your faith responsible for justifying yourself, when in truth, Jesus faith is what justifies us.

We are delivered (saved) eternally by grace. The born again people are delivered, (saved), here in time, by our good works. When are you ever going to be able to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures?
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Please prove this claim with an example that shows disharmony.

You make many claims but you do not provide any verses that SAY what you SAY.
I don't know why you say that. I most always give the book, chapter and verse along with my comments.
Actually, you don't.

When you call my hand on those that I fail to do so, I respond back to you with a scripture.
And I have shown how the verses you use don't support your claims.

What you do is re-define words to fit your theology.

I have proved my comments to harmonize with scripture.
No, they don't. And again, I look forward to this "1 doctrine of truth" that Jesus taught. I can't imagine what you are referring to.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
You still don't understand how the Bible uses "work". Rom 4:4,5 explains it. Work EARNS a wage. Grace doesn't. We are saved by grace, not by works.
Not according to your interpretations of scripture,
No, the problem is with YOUR interpretation of Scripture.

such as Gal 2:16 where you change the wording to make Jesus faith, to be your faith, making your faith responsible for justifying yourself, when in truth, Jesus faith is what justifies us.
I've already shown you that half of the translations on biblehub.com DON'T have "of" or "from" in that verse. You're stuck on the KJV.

My own interlinear shows the word means "in". Further, consider ALL the verses that speak of people believing in Christ. That is their action. You claim all the verses about "faith in Christ" refers to "the faithfulness of Christ". You ignore the verses, like Acts 16:31 that show that people must believe to be saved.

And Paul's answer to the jailer nails it. He wanted to know what he MUST DO and Paul's answer was to believe. Something the jailer MUST DO to be saved. Your views are not in line with Scripture.

[QUOT]We are delivered (saved) eternally by grace. [/QUOTE]
No, we are not. And the Bible doesn't say that. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith. Not by works. Leaving out that part seems to me to be dishonest. Our faith is what we believe in.

The born again people are delivered, (saved), here in time, by our good works.
Not all the time. Just read Hebrews 11. And this isn't the issue anyway.

When are you ever going to be able to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures?
It seems you're the one with the difficulty. In every verse that clearly shows the person must believe in Christ for salvation, you default to this unbiblical notion.

The jailer wasn't concerned with being delivered from some temporal danger. The earthquake was over when he got to the prison.

And Paul's answer had nothing to do with being delivered from some temporal danger.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.
33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.
34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.

In v.34, it is clear that the jailer "had come to believe in God" (Jesus Christ).

This has nothing to do with earthly dangers, as you claim.

John 8-
30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

These verses are very clear. People were believing IN Him. This is what faith is; believing in Jesus. And Jesus wasn't speaking about temporal dangers.
 

ForestGreenCook

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You are simply applying other verses to different texts. Without evidence. Stick with the text.
You fail to believe the difference in the unregenerate man, and the regenerate man. God has exchanged their heart from a heart of stone (the unregenerate man) to a heart of flesh, that is soft enough to be pricked to feel spiritual guilt ( the regenerate man)
Ezk 36:26-28.
 

ForestGreenCook

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I look forward to this "1 doctrine of truth" that Jesus taught. I can't imagine what you are referring to.
Matt 7:28-29 - And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine, for he taught them as one having authority.

1 Tim 1:3 - As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine.

1 Tim 4:13 - Till I come, give attendance to reading, exhortation, to doctrine. verse 16 - Take heed unto thyself, and unto THE doctrine, continue in them, for in doing this thou shall save (deliver) thyself, and them that hear thee. Preaching the doctrine of Jesus can deliver Timothy, who has already been delivered eternally, here in time, and also deliver the lost sheep that hear him.

1 Tim 6:1-3 - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren, but rather do them service, because they bare faithful, and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is accordance to godliness.

Titus 2:1 - But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine.

2 John 1:10 - If there come any unto you, and bring not THIS doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
 

ForestGreenCook

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And Paul's answer to the jailer nails it. He wanted to know what he MUST DO and Paul's answer was to believe. Something the jailer MUST DO to be saved. Your views are not in line with Scripture.
Yours are right in line with eternal deliverance, by things you must do, which is good works.
Your statement is foolish. Everyone is able to understand the gospel, but calvinists seem unable to understand that fact.

When the Bible says that "no one has an excuse", it means people are accountable for their actions.

Why would a person be accountable if he isn't able to make free choices? But I doubt that calvinists would even understand this question.

If you can not see yourself, as well as myself also, in Romans 1, then you are not humble enough to see the truth. These people had heard the word, and believed it, but became disobedient. You must be so indoctrinated in your false belief that you cannot have an open mind to receive the truth of the scriptures.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
You are simply applying other verses to different texts. Without evidence. Stick with the text.
You fail to believe the difference in the unregenerate man, and the regenerate man.
Nonsense. I understand it better than you do. You believe that God regenerates a person so they will believe. Go find such a verse.

God has exchanged their heart from a heart of stone (the unregenerate man) to a heart of flesh
You FAIL to accept that this follows believing in Christ. I doubt that you even understand what "believing in Christ" means.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
I look forward to this "1 doctrine of truth" that Jesus taught. I can't imagine what you are referring to.
Matt 7:28-29 - And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine, for he taught them as one having authority.
The question was about what this 1 doctrine of truth is. This verse doesn't explain it.

1 Tim 1:3 - As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine.
1 Tim 4:13 - Till I come, give attendance to reading, exhortation, to doctrine. verse 16 - Take heed unto thyself, and unto THE doctrine, continue in them, for in doing this thou shall save (deliver) thyself, and them that hear thee. Preaching the doctrine of Jesus can deliver Timothy, who has already been delivered eternally, here in time, and also deliver the lost sheep that hear him.
1 Tim 6:1-3 - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren, but rather do them service, because they bare faithful, and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is accordance to godliness.
Titus 2:1 - But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine.
2 John 1:10 - If there come any unto you, and bring not THIS doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
You speak of this "1 doctrine of truth" that Jesus taught, and you throw these 9 verses at me, which Paul taught.

So, I STILL don't know what you mean by "1 doctrine of truth that Jesus taught".

I guess you can't explain it.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
And Paul's answer to the jailer nails it. He wanted to know what he MUST DO and Paul's answer was to believe. Something the jailer MUST DO to be saved. Your views are not in line with Scripture.
Yours are right in line with eternal deliverance, by things you must do, which is good works.
That wasn't what Paul told the jailer. He told the jailer he would be saved by believing in Jesus Christ. It is very clear to me that you are basically clueless about what Paul taught.

If you can not see yourself, as well as myself also, in Romans 1, then you are not humble enough to see the truth. These people had heard the word, and believed it, but became disobedient. You must be so indoctrinated in your false belief that you cannot have an open mind to receive the truth of the scriptures.
When are you going to explain this "1 doctrine of truth that Jesus taught"? I'm waiting.

You certainly have demonstrated how little you understand about what the jailer was asking about and what Paul's answer was.

The text spells it out clearly and yet you think eternal deliverance is by doing good works.

Are you not aware that the Pharisees of Jesus' day thought that as well???