Christians are Israel

[eternally-gratefull]

See if this helps.
Marriage in the spiritual context is God "dwelling within" His bride (mankind) for the purpose of becoming one flesh by bringing forth new life.

So Wolf... can you address these questions??? Abiding said he was going to after a nap... but I guess he was really really tired, as I see no response yet.

If Christians are Israel wouldn't Jesus Be incestuous with his Fathers wife??? The Nation Israel is portrayed as the WIFE of God the Father. God repeatedly states the Marriage is an EVERLASTING covenant. Christ Is the SON born of this MARRIAGE... be is betrothed to his BRIDE... which is the CHURCH. THIS is the NEW COVENENT. God is not a man that he should Lie... there are two covenants... Two Marriages... two distinct subjects... Christians and Israel???

I like this.

1. God created isreal out of gentile nations.
2. God created them to be his wife
3. God gave them covenants, and promised to fulfill them, based on his special love for them
4. God never promised they all would be saved, just his people. (which is where I think most of the confusion comes from)

5. Out of this marraige between God and his formed nation, comes a savior. the son of God (And Israel)
6. From this son. All mankind (whether from Israel or a Gentile) can be married to the son based on his gift. When this betrothal takes place. God actually adopts these people who will be the wife of the son into his family. Thus the church is the children not only of God, but of Israel (her offspring)
7. The old covenant (the one made between God and Isreal) could not save anyone, the new covenant is far greater, because everyone who falls into this covenant will be saved.
8. Both covenants are still binding, because it was God who made the covenant with Israel. thus he must keep his promises to them, because it was not based on what they did, but who they are. (not to mention. this covenant was never met to save anyone, thus it was never affective to give salvation) Same goes with the children, it is based on God and his promise, and not who we are or what we have done.

In the final pages of mankinds history on Earth will be a great battle between God, and his adversary (satan) who hates ALL of Gods family (be it Israel who gave birth to the son and are held in esteem by God) or her offspring, who are married into his family. During this battle. God will protect his chosen (isreal) but allow satan to have his way with her offspring (the church) for 3 1/2 years. at which time, he will totally defeat satan and the people of the world who follow him with his return to earth, as he promised the disciples in acts 1. At this time, all the things he promised all people (his nation, and her offspring) will come true. David will be on his throne, Isreal will live in peace. and the church will honor the messiah and worship him here on earth. AFter satan is losed. he tried one more time to fight, but is slaughtered and thus we enter eternity. one with our savior (no isreal, no gentile) to be with our God, and our husband forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where there not others in Jerusalem that were not Jews? The Lord made it clear to Peter that the gospel was not just for the Jews in his dream and encounter with Cornelius, plus Paul correcting him later on in regards of this matter. Therefore, we must conclude that Jerusalem and the surrounding region did not consist of Jews only, but a mixed ethnic group in which Peter was ignoring. Thus when James considers the 12 tribes in his book, He means all believers. Are you suggesting that the non-jewish ethnics are not included? If so you and James are making the same mistake Peter made.

Paul wrote to rome, did he not mean that his letter would also be applicable to all churches? or was paul being as someone stated earlier as respector of persons?

James wrote to his nation, Thats why he called them the 12 tribes. he wrote a personal letter to his people. does this mean he did not mean it would be applicable to all the church?

If James had meant to write his letter to all churches, no matter their ethnicity or bloodline, he would have said, "james to the churches scattered abroad" Think About it. Paul addressed the church. John addressed the 7 churches.

look at peter. In his first book, he addressed the dispersed (who are dispersed but isreal) In his second, he addressed all saved people. in his third, So even peter wrote a personal letter to his own people. then one written to everyone. But no one would deny his words are applicable to ALL people.

 

[zone]

Oslo wasn't exactly blessing Israel. Since the 70's we have been pressuring them to give up land for so called peace.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

 

[tribesman]

Q: Christians are Israel?

A: Yes.

Gal.3

[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[15] Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[20] Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[21] Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Q: Christians are Israel?

A: Yes.

there is a problem with what you posted. actually a few.

1. According to the passage. there is no jew or greek. thus there is no Isreal.
2. According to your passage, we are in abraham. Not sure if you remember, but Isreal is the name given to jacob, who was but one son of Abraham.

either way, the passage you have does not say Christians are israel in any part of it.

 

[zone]

ok, as I promised when I got home, I would look up the word "possess" as used in the hebrew in Jer 30: 8

the word is used as a "perfect" tense verb,, meaning it is a one time act with is perfected (will last forever)

EG: peter was of national israel.
shouldn't he have said something other than this?:


2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness

~

"in keeping with his promise"

Galatians 3:7
Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

Romans 3:30
since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Romans 15:8
But I say that Yeshua The Messiah ministered to the circumcision for the sake of the truth of God, so as to confirm The Promise of the fathers.
ABPE

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 10:1
I Am the Good Shepherd
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

19There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. 20Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” 21Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

~

14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.


Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

Hebrews 12:27
The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

~

i wonder if we could make a close study of this one day:

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

love ya bud
z

 

[tribesman]

there is a problem with what you posted. actually a few.

1. According to the passage. there is no jew or greek. thus there is no Isreal.
2. According to your passage, we are in abraham. Not sure if you remember, but Isreal is the name given to jacob, who was but one son of Abraham.

either way, the passage you have does not say Christians are israel in any part of it.

Christians are Jacob, the Israel of God, in the covenant of promise.

Gal.6

[15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
[16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom.9

[1] I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
[2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
[3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
[4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
[5] Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
[9] For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
[10] And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
[11] ( For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
[12] It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
[13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
[14] What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[15] For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
[16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

[24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
[25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
[27] Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
[28] For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
[29] And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Stephen63]

Poor 'ole dead horse, once again wore down to the mane and saddle horn. Somebody go get a broom and put under it so we can ride it another 10,000 miles.

 

[zone]

Poor 'ole dead horse, once again wore down to the mane and saddle horn. Somebody go get a broom and put under it so we can ride it another 10,000 miles.

...tag..

 

[nathan3]

No i dont think im descended from them. Salvation is open to whom so ever will believe on The Saviour . But if you get into were the tribes are today and who they are in actuality then its a bit of a study . But the scriptures are there to give you a precise account of all your questions; it answers.

 

[tribesman]

.. But if you get into were the tribes are today and who they are in actuality then its a bit of a study...

Correct. But its important to point out that it has nothing to do with anyone's right standing before God and salvation. There's but one people of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG: peter was of national israel.
shouldn't he have said something other than this?:


2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness

~

"in keeping with his promise"

Galatians 3:7
Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

Romans 3:30
since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Romans 15:8
But I say that Yeshua The Messiah ministered to the circumcision for the sake of the truth of God, so as to confirm The Promise of the fathers.
ABPE

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 10:1
I Am the Good Shepherd
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

19There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. 20Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” 21Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

~

14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.


Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

Hebrews 12:27
The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

~

i wonder if we could make a close study of this one day:

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

love ya bud
z

Zone, I love ya sis, but come on.

Peter was already told by Christ not to worry about the time or season he was going to restore isreal and the kingdom (Acts 1) . He told him The important thing is not when he will do that. But where his eternal destination lies. So why would we expect Peter to worry about that more than his eternal destiny?

the topic was jer 30. when God will restore Israel, and they will possess the land. and the Gentiles who enslaved them are destroyed. What that has anything to do with eternity I have no clue. Eternity is for us all. The promises made in Jer 30 are only for a select group of people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christians are Jacob, the Israel of God, in the covenant of promise.

You still did not prove anything.

1. In the first. he said peace upon them (all who believe and does those things) And upon isreal (the topic of his discussion) 2 distinct people groups.
2. In the second. Paul is refuting the notion from those from isreal who think that their flesh inheritance is eternal life. He is not saying that all people who are born of God are Isreal. He is saying being fleshly Isreal does not account for anything.

Try to think of Context. and who is being spoken to and of and you will see the context.

There is niether jew or greek. That is ALL I need to know. if there is niether jew or gree. then the Church is not jewish or greek, nor is it Isreal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Correct. But its important to point out that it has nothing to do with anyone's right standing before God and salvation. There's but one people of God.

thats the whole point in a nutshell. The prophesy of Isreal in the OT, her sin, her dispersion, her restoration, has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's right standing before God.

the problem is, people want to make it do with this. if they would separate the two. then they would see the difference.

 

[zone]

Zone, I love ya sis, but come on.

Peter was already told by Christ not to worry about the time or season he was going to restore isreal and the kingdom (Acts 1) . He told him The important thing is not when he will do that. But where his eternal destination lies. So why would we expect Peter to worry about that more than his eternal destiny?

the topic was jer 30. when God will restore Israel, and they will possess the land. and the Gentiles who enslaved them are destroyed. What that has anything to do with eternity I have no clue. Eternity is for us all. The promises made in Jer 30 are only for a select group of people.

but He did restore them
Pentecost was when they received the Power from on High to be priests and kings in the kingdom.
they were still thinking in terms of THIS WORLD VS THE WORLD TO COME...until He opened it to them.

Luke 24:32
They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”

Jesus WAS the Restoration.
He has the keys to the Kingdom.
He's King.

thing is, where are you going when you die?
i presume you believe your soul will be with the Lord; then at the Last day you'll get your glorified body (?)
that's what i believe.

so....if that's what happens, if we're saying the Jewish people MUST inherit earthly Jerusalem come what may, and that Jesus MUST sit in a physical Temple in earthly Jerusalem, we are pretty much saying everybody who died in Christ and is with Him now....will come back without their glorified bodies....

(unless there's more than one Resurrection)

.....and what....? reign over flesh ppl on this earth?

who will be reigning? Jews or Christians?
who will they be reigning over?

like.....unless you have a new earth and eternity for everybody who dies in the Lord PLUS, and concurrent with, this old earth and old jerusalem for unbelieving jews (who somehow magically believe as a solid block all at once when somehow gentiles are no longer reigning over them???), the inheriting the soil in Jerusalem which now is makes zero sense. at all.

as for gentiles ruling over jews today...what does that mean??
who is ruling over jews today?
WHO?

gentiles don't like being pushed off their land mean gentiles are ruling over jews?
gentiles who don't like being threatened daily with annihilation are ruling over jews?
i don't get it.

Christians are all over the world.
from every kindred tongue and nation, right?

and their inheritance is Jesus, and New Jerusalem.

so...like i just do not get what all this war and killing and chaos and mayhem over unbelieving jews getting the Temple Mount is for? if it isn't the Real promise, is it really worth all that blood? is that Our Lord?

if someone could explain to me about that 3rd Temple, it might make sense. where is that anywhere in scripture? ezekiel is the only possible hint....but a close look at his temple shows it is not a literal physical future temple.....but is an Hebraic picture-glimpse first of JESUS, and then of New Jerusalem, where Jesus is the Light of it - no temple at all!

NO GAPS



so again: Re: Christians are Israel

yes, they are....by virtue of being one with the TRUE ISRAEL:

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

Romans 8:9
Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

 

[tribesman]

You still did not prove anything.

1. In the first. he said peace upon them (all who believe and does those things) And upon isreal (the topic of his discussion) 2 distinct people groups.

Gal.6:15-16 is not talking about 2 distinct groups.

2. In the second. Paul is refuting the notion from those from isreal who think that their flesh inheritance is eternal life. He is not saying that all people who are born of God are Isreal. He is saying being fleshly Isreal does not account for anything.

Try to think of Context. and who is being spoken to and of and you will see the context.

There is niether jew or greek. That is ALL I need to know. if there is niether jew or gree. then the Church is not jewish or greek, nor is it Isreal.

The context is that the church is Jacob. It follows from that context that believers are Jacob and unbelievers are Esau. Regardless of their earthly ancestry.

Rom.9

[1] I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
[2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
[3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
[4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
[5] Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


[13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
[14] What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[15] For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
[16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
[17] For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
[18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
[19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
[21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
[24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
[25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
[27] Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
[28] For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
[29] And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[BarlyGurl]

I like this.

Thank you eternal...

Kind of makes MARRIAGE being a picture of Christ and the Church.... take on a greater significance and the brings into focus WHY marriage of our times has become the subverted mess of confusion in it has.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

but He did restore them
Pentecost was when they received the Power from on High to be priests and kings in the kingdom.
they were still thinking in terms of THIS WORLD VS THE WORLD TO COME...until He opened it to them.

Luke 24:32
They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”

Jesus WAS the Restoration.
He has the keys to the Kingdom.
He's King.

thing is, where are you going when you die?
i presume you believe your soul will be with the Lord; then at the Last day you'll get your glorified body (?)
that's what i believe.

so....if that's what happens, if we're saying the Jewish people MUST inherit earthly Jerusalem come what may, and that Jesus MUST sit in a physical Temple in earthly Jerusalem, we are pretty much saying everybody who died in Christ and is with Him now....will come back without their glorified bodies....

(unless there's more than one Resurrection)

.....and what....? reign over flesh ppl on this earth?

who will be reigning? Jews or Christians?
who will they be reigning over?

like.....unless you have a new earth and eternity for everybody who dies in the Lord PLUS, and concurrent with, this old earth and old jerusalem for unbelieving jews (who somehow magically believe as a solid block all at once when somehow gentiles are no longer reigning over them???), the inheriting the soil in Jerusalem which now is makes zero sense. at all.

as for gentiles ruling over jews today...what does that mean??
who is ruling over jews today?
WHO?

gentiles don't like being pushed off their land mean gentiles are ruling over jews?
gentiles who don't like being threatened daily with annihilation are ruling over jews?
i don't get it.

Christians are all over the world.
from every kindred tongue and nation, right?

and their inheritance is Jesus, and New Jerusalem.

so...like i just do not get what all this war and killing and chaos and mayhem over unbelieving jews getting the Temple Mount is for? if it isn't the Real promise, is it really worth all that blood? is that Our Lord?

if someone could explain to me about that 3rd Temple, it might make sense. where is that anywhere in scripture? ezekiel is the only possible hint....but a close look at his temple shows it is not a literal physical future temple.....but is an Hebraic picture-glimpse first of JESUS, and then of New Jerusalem, where Jesus is the Light of it - no temple at all!

NO GAPS



so again: Re: Christians are Israel

yes, they are....by virtue of being one with the TRUE ISRAEL:

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

Romans 8:9
Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

No. Pentecost is when he gave all mankind the power to be children of God and recieve the Holy Spirit.

It was never prophesied that salvation had anything to do with the restoration of the children of Isreal. so why do you keep making it one?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gal.6:15-16 is not talking about 2 distinct groups.

well actually yeah it is. It is talking to Christians. And to jews who are trying to add the law to salvation.

The context is that the church is Jacob. It follows from that context that believers are Jacob and unbelievers are Esau. Regardless of their earthly ancestry.

Thats not the context at all. The context is God chose the seed through jacob and Not through esau. (the firstborn, who should have had the inheritance) He did it his way, not our way.. would you like to try again??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like this.

Thank you eternal...

Kind of makes MARRIAGE being a picture of Christ and the Church.... take on a greater significance and the brings into focus WHY marriage of our times has become the subverted mess of confusion in it has.

and Also why God holds such a high regard to marriage, it pictures us and him.