Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[homwardbound]

I to play the drums but not when I'm worshipping God, especially when he tells me to sing only.

There is a literal singing only, like taking the Law of Moses literally and stumbling thereby you think , maybe?

Literal singing is that from the heart or a command that one has to do or else, one is in danger of the San Hedrin.
All the work of Christ prior to the cross our redemption, reconciliation, propitiation for sins all was under the law covenant of Moses given to the first Chosen to obey perfectly and if could not, they could not go to Heaven, and had to transfer their sins from them to an innocent animal once a year to be covered from prior sins

So what was Jesus' purpose? To fulfill the Law of Moses in truth as to what it was to mean, not in the literal sense as was taken for literally, as you see are for instruments.
Just saying hoping you see the Spiritual aspect here not the literal physical one that you are imposing

 

[homwardbound]

Where does the Bible say 'sing only.' You are adding in the 'sing only.' If you want to argue from Nadab and Abihu and say that harps, etc. are not commanded, then you can argue that. But if you say the verses you mentioned about singing and making melody in your heart say to 'sing only' then you are adding to scripture what is not there. These verses say nothing about not using other instruments.

Btw, using Nadab and Abihu's example is problematic because they were supposed to be using the temple fire, this was about the Old Testament temple and not the 'holy convocations' of the synagogue or the meetings of the church.

Also, my guess is you are completely comfortable with going to a church that does not follow explicit commands of scripture, including the command "Let all things be done unto edifying" regarding "every one of you" having a psalm, doctrine, tongue revelation, interpretation, the commands regarding speaking in tongues and interpretation, the command to let the prophets speak two or three and for the first to hold his peace if another sitting by receives a revelation, the statement, "For ye may all prophesy one by one....". Later Paul says that what he wrote to them were 'the commandments of the Lord'.

It is odd to me that some churches treat silence as a command, but ignore or even forbid what is explicitly commanded.

how about that have all things in unity?
Father dances around Son praising Son and Son dances around Father praising Father and Holy Spirit of God dancing around us praising us by Father and Son, and so we join in the unity you think?

All together now Praise and worship to Father ans Son, and praise and worship come right back at you, you think?
Is that unity or what?

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

Read the scripture closely, God did not say they did not build a fire the way he commanded them, he said they built a fire in a way he commanded them not (he never told them to build it that way), therefore your (and anybody else) that use the argument if the bible is silent on the matter, it is okay is proven wrong right here :

 Leviticus 10:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them.

Moses did as told by God, so did Noah, and Abraham and Paul and James when they saw the truth in God's love beyond measure they obeyed from the heart
And so now i obey from the Heart that Father has given me, with song and melody, whether i hear or play aninstrument, the song is always in my heart not the instrument

This is my story, this is my song, praising my Savior Jesus Chrsit all day long
Love you all and thank you

 

[homwardbound]

If God commands you to sing and you refuse to accept that command, then what would be the outcome for disobeying a command God has given?

Please Shava I need to know, God is going to kill me, whip me, tell me off or love me?

 

[homwardbound]

If God commands you to sing and you refuse to accept that command, then what would be the outcome for disobeying a command God has given?

Is your obedience perfect? so by what just said here you are what if you do not obey? Sounds like we are under Law still in the literal sense, are we?

 

[homwardbound]

why not? i know you've read Colossians 3:16 - did you read 3:17?

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
(Colossians 3:16-17)

and again in 3:23 --

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men

Motive is key is it not?

 

[homwardbound]

Breaking commandments I would assume would be a sin, so if you have commandments to sing only as we do, then I would assume it would be a sin.

And exactly why since not one can be perfect no not one, Christ came in our stead to be perfect for us, and to graft us in this perfect harmony with Father praising and dancing in the Spirit to one another in unity this I see here don't you? To use or not use instruments causes division and no unison, when Father, Son and Holy Spirit are in unison praising one another inviting us to just join in and do the same, all; together now, praise who and who praises back?

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus said: "LOVE GOD with ALL your heart". LOVE is the command! It has to do with GOD and also with people... If your are married, you surely know what your spouse like to hear sung. There is music in a heart who is in love. A joyful heart is noisy, by itself and, when singing to GOD (a spiritual being who is not selfish and selcentered like we all human are) he surely hear more than we can hear, noy matter it be a noise or music. Why Psalms were written to use INSTRUMENST along with VOICES?
It is not a SIN, except for you an others. Just imagine Jesus or GOD acting like those Pharisees Jesus faced and criticized.

I think more like Chrst just said truth as truth is and their own consciences convicted them. Any one trying to convict me outside of me, is forcing me and anyone they are telling to walk right or else are of the flesh whether they see it or not.
Anyway I was convicted by God that I need God and God showed me the way, the truth and the life is in Son, Jesus Christ. And told just praise and worship in thanksgiving and praise wherever I go and what ever I do and you will sing melody in your heart and ready to tell others of your joy and why?

So ask yourselves why? What did he do that is different from the Law of Moses? Is there a difference before and after the cross of Christ? Could this be what the song is melody in our hearts of thanksgiving and praise, for what we could not do he did for us in our stead?

 

[homwardbound]

Look at this sinner: View attachment 76200

Just get rid the world of music and get more empty benches at churches and empty souls, as well.

Does going to Church sitting in a pew, make one a Christian, anymore that one that goes to a hen house make them a hen?

 

[homwardbound]

The correct way to worship is with instruments that lift the soul to God
not guitar or drums
those are satanic

one's Motive is what will be judged, and many professed not possessed talkers have already missed the mark, just not yet revealed, and i pray the revealing comes so that those a faking it might be saved, change their arrogant minds of self righteousness using Father as their catalyst t trip man up, And i know Father will do accordingly to Father's will and show everyone truth to decide to God or man's service.
Thanks for those with ears to hear the melody from Father and thanks to those with plugged up ears for now, God will use it all for his divine purpose of love to all through Son

 

[homwardbound]

First the greek word used in Ephesians 5:19;Collosians 3:16 the phrase ἔχειν ψαλμόν is used of one who has it in his heart to sing or recite a song. When paul Gave instruction it was on how to USE the gifts, not a direct command to have them. and in Corinthians 13 it clearly shows the gifts that are done away with. So i DO know that those who add too or take away from the Authority, The written scriptures, will be punished for it, just as the for-fathers and prophets before us who disobeyed or added to the Word.

yes all flesh works done of and in the flesh with the wrong motive will all burn up, and yet after that we ourselves go through the fire too, praying We do not burn up. Maybe ask God to turn on the kiln right now, asking for the Holy Ghost fire to burn up all flesh dross here now today, and be set free in Spirit and truth, maybe?

 

[homwardbound]

Satan doesn't have the power to create. Therefore, the guitar and drums can't, in and of themselves, be intrinsically evil.

I know and am convinced that everything is clean of itself by Jesus Christ.
Therefore it is what I do with anything that keeps it clean or defiles it, I am chewing on that one?

 

[homwardbound]

It's a fact that we both can't be right, so what should we do to alleviate this issue. What happens to the one that's wrong? Why is it that these two verses, Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19 can be interpreted differently, why? If we are not sure about the two verses in question, who do we turn to for telling us what they mean? Do we look at all of the different concordances to determine which is correct? Who is it that we can trust to tell us what is the truth of these two verses, who? I came to my conclusion by studying everything on it I could and looking at the fact that the N.T. doesn't mention using instruments in worship and the fact my interpretation tells me that the two verses mean to sing only in worship and that the fact that after all this time that has gone by without instruments something tells me that this, using instruments isn't what we are to do. I hear preachers that believe it's ok to use instruments in worship because of cultural change, whatever that means, and others say they finally see in the O.T. scriptures, again after all this time that it actually says it's ok to use instruments in worship, folks if that don't seem odd as a three dollar bill then I just don't know. With all that said I'm going to go by what I know to be the truth, that's right, what I know, so everybody else has to do what they know to be right.

What happens to those of us that are wrong?

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[homwardbound]

Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

And so the whole of the book, the word of truth is:

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[homwardbound]

Free from WHAT?

From sin all taken by Christ at the death, he made us holy before Father

Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[homwardbound]

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

Jesus Christ is also the Paraklete or the "another Comforter" Jesus promised when He said I will come to you.

However, unless you believe in universalism while Jesus paid for the sins OF THE WORLD He said that neither He not His disciples were OF THE WORLD. That is why He said that God HIDES from the Wise, Sophists meaning speakers, singers and instrument players.

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil

So just a select few, no free choice as to either beleive or not is that what you say here?
No one is saved by the death of Christ we are to agree to be dead with Christ at the death to flesh with Christ daily, so that we might see the new life daily and worship Father daily in Spirit and truth, which today is the only way Father is served

 

[Shava]

What happens to those of us that are wrong?

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Those that are wrong in not worshipping correctly would be subjected to whatever God sets forth as punishment, or maybe the person truly believes that his way of thinking is correct and God feels that he was doing what he thought to be right, and I would think there would be no punishment, but I'm not God. Paul believed that he was doing the will of God by persecuting Christians, so he done it out of ignorance, so I would think the same for this issue, that God would understand and not do anything to the person who is doing this out of ignorance. Worshipping God is a serious duty that is to be done correctly.

 

[homwardbound]

Good morning to you, and wishing you a great day. I hope you will allow me to use this information that I find to be the best explanation on what you're asking, which is a copy and paste, but as I said I really like how he explains what he's talking about. ANALYSIS OF THE COMMAND
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father." (COLOSSIANS 3:17). It is important to note that right after the admonition to sing comes this reminder: do all in the name of the Lord Jesus. This means to do the things we do based upon His say so. The music we offer to God the Father must be according to Jesus' direction and not different from it. In the preceding verses we have seen exactly what Jesus commanded in His covenant.
Consider again the passage in Ephesians which probably contains the most information about what is truly Christian music:
"Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord." (EPHESIANS 5:19).
1) Speaking (lalountes) speak, proclaim, say. This word is used many times in the New Testament. It has to do with delivering spoken messages.
2) To one another (eautois) yourselves. The speaking is done by the same ones that are being addressed.
3) Psalms (yalmos) Song of praise. In the New Testament, can refer to the Psalms of the Old Testament as well as songs of praise and joy.
4) Hymns (umnois) Song of praise. Perhaps different from Psalms because of arrangement.
5) Spiritual songs (pnematikais; wdais) Songs pertaining to the spirit and contrasted with that which is fleshly or carnal.
6) Singing (adontes) vocal musical expressions of testimony or exhortation.
7) Making melody (yallontes) Originally, this word meant to pluck the strings, as you would with a harp. But gradually it came to include singing. Finally, its primary meaning came to be to sing. This is its meaning in New Testament times. This passage not only tells us to sing (i.e "pluck the strings"), it tells us exactly what instrument to use! See next:
8) Heart (kardia) Heart, mind. As we sing, we are to pluck the strings of our hearts. We are to sing with the spirit and the understanding. The only instrument that we are authorized by the authority of Christ to use as we sing is our hearts. In fact, not only are we permitted to use the heart, we are commanded to use it. If you are not singing with the heart, then do not sing at all.

HISTORY SPEAKS
"Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." (II JOHN 9). The fact of the matter is that the teaching of Christ does not authorize the use of any instrument other than the heart to be used in the singing of praises unto God. The New Testament gives no command or example of it use by Christians in the worship of God. It was centuries before musical instruments became accepted. Christians of early centuries opposed their use in worship.
Many references cite Pope Vitalian I (666 A.D.) as the one who first introduced musical instruments into the worship of the church. However, the Catholic Encyclopedia says that a strong objection to its use remained pretty general until at least the twelfth century.
One of the chief aims of the Protestant Reformation leaders was to reform the music of the worship by doing away with the instruments. Martin Luther said, "An organ in the worship of God is an ensign of Baal." John Calvin stated' "Musical instruments in the celebration of praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of other shadows of the law...men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in such noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing." John Wesley put it this way; "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither seen or heard." These statements are from the founders of the Lutheran, Reformed and Methodist churches!
The greatest Baptist preacher of all time was Charles Spurgeon, who said; "I'd as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery." Though it is so common place in houses of worship today, it has not always been so. There have been many battles fought throughout history over the issue. Instrumental music in worship is probably here to stay, but it took long enough to get here! It did not arrive until centuries after Christ for one reason: He never authorized its use and that used to mean something to people. It still should!

Singing hymns is a part of the Lord's will and Divinely authorized for our worship of God. The words of these songs are designed to praise God as well as encourage one another. As in all we do in the Lord's name, let us do all we can to make our singing the best it can be, always focusing on the heart first; the part with which God is most concerned. Then let us also concentrate on making the sounds as pleasing to the human ear as the abilities God gave us will allow.

Reprinted From the Bradley Banner Bradley Church of ChristBradley, IllinoisJune 20, 1993

Thank you for your view, and this is not my same view, do we agree to disagree about whether instruments are to be used or not in a gathering fellowship?
I mean Brother you do beleive God and so do I, we together do put our trust in the living God Jesus Christ right?
That being our common denominator from our hearts can we do this

 

[homwardbound]

Good morning to you, and wishing you a great day. I hope you will allow me to use this information that I find to be the best explanation on what you're asking, which is a copy and paste, but as I said I really like how he explains what he's talking about. ANALYSIS OF THE COMMAND
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father." (COLOSSIANS 3:17). It is important to note that right after the admonition to sing comes this reminder: do all in the name of the Lord Jesus. This means to do the things we do based upon His say so. The music we offer to God the Father must be according to Jesus' direction and not different from it. In the preceding verses we have seen exactly what Jesus commanded in His covenant.
Consider again the passage in Ephesians which probably contains the most information about what is truly Christian music:
"Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord." (EPHESIANS 5:19).
1) Speaking (lalountes) speak, proclaim, say. This word is used many times in the New Testament. It has to do with delivering spoken messages.
2) To one another (eautois) yourselves. The speaking is done by the same ones that are being addressed.
3) Psalms (yalmos) Song of praise. In the New Testament, can refer to the Psalms of the Old Testament as well as songs of praise and joy.
4) Hymns (umnois) Song of praise. Perhaps different from Psalms because of arrangement.
5) Spiritual songs (pnematikais; wdais) Songs pertaining to the spirit and contrasted with that which is fleshly or carnal.
6) Singing (adontes) vocal musical expressions of testimony or exhortation.
7) Making melody (yallontes) Originally, this word meant to pluck the strings, as you would with a harp. But gradually it came to include singing. Finally, its primary meaning came to be to sing. This is its meaning in New Testament times. This passage not only tells us to sing (i.e "pluck the strings"), it tells us exactly what instrument to use! See next:
8) Heart (kardia) Heart, mind. As we sing, we are to pluck the strings of our hearts. We are to sing with the spirit and the understanding. The only instrument that we are authorized by the authority of Christ to use as we sing is our hearts. In fact, not only are we permitted to use the heart, we are commanded to use it. If you are not singing with the heart, then do not sing at all.

HISTORY SPEAKS
"Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." (II JOHN 9). The fact of the matter is that the teaching of Christ does not authorize the use of any instrument other than the heart to be used in the singing of praises unto God. The New Testament gives no command or example of it use by Christians in the worship of God. It was centuries before musical instruments became accepted. Christians of early centuries opposed their use in worship.
Many references cite Pope Vitalian I (666 A.D.) as the one who first introduced musical instruments into the worship of the church. However, the Catholic Encyclopedia says that a strong objection to its use remained pretty general until at least the twelfth century.
One of the chief aims of the Protestant Reformation leaders was to reform the music of the worship by doing away with the instruments. Martin Luther said, "An organ in the worship of God is an ensign of Baal." John Calvin stated' "Musical instruments in the celebration of praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of other shadows of the law...men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in such noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing." John Wesley put it this way; "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither seen or heard." These statements are from the founders of the Lutheran, Reformed and Methodist churches!
The greatest Baptist preacher of all time was Charles Spurgeon, who said; "I'd as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery." Though it is so common place in houses of worship today, it has not always been so. There have been many battles fought throughout history over the issue. Instrumental music in worship is probably here to stay, but it took long enough to get here! It did not arrive until centuries after Christ for one reason: He never authorized its use and that used to mean something to people. It still should!

Singing hymns is a part of the Lord's will and Divinely authorized for our worship of God. The words of these songs are designed to praise God as well as encourage one another. As in all we do in the Lord's name, let us do all we can to make our singing the best it can be, always focusing on the heart first; the part with which God is most concerned. Then let us also concentrate on making the sounds as pleasing to the human ear as the abilities God gave us will allow.

Reprinted From the Bradley Banner Bradley Church of ChristBradley, IllinoisJune 20, 1993

Bottom line in all we do if it is from the heart of God (love) we are right, right?

 

[Shava]

Please Shava I need to know, God is going to kill me, whip me, tell me off or love me?

Hope your day is a wonderful day. Please read post 877.