Come Let Us Reason Together
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1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
..........................................................................................................
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I have, hold, possess
Definition: I have, hold, possess.
Definition
to have, hold
ability (1), able (1), accompany (1), acknowledge* (1), am (2), become (1), been (3), being (1), being under (1), bringing (1), conceived* (1), consider (2), considered (2), could (2), derive (1), deriving (1), devoid* (1), enjoyed (1), experiencing (1), felt (1), following (1), get (2), gripped (1), had (80), has (134), have (283), have had (2), having (50), held (1), hold (5), holding (7), holds (2), ill* (5), incurring (1), involves (1), keep (3), keeping (3), kept (1), maintain (1), maintained (1), maintaining (1), meets (1), nearby (1), next (2), obliged* (1), obtain (2), obtained (1), owned (3), possess (2), possessed (4), possesses (1), receive (1), received (1), recover* (1), regard (2), regarded (1), reigns* (1), remember* (1), retain (1), seize (1), show (1), think* (1), unable* (1), under (1), under* (1), use (1), without* (3).
STRONGS NT 2192: ἔχω
ἔχω; future ἕξω; imperfect εἶχον (1 person plural ἐιχαμεν, 2 John 1:5 T Tr WH), 3 person plural ἐιχαν (Mark 8:7 L T Tr WH; Revelation 9:8 L T Tr WH; but cf. (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 38; Tdf. Proleg., p. 123; WHs Appendix, p. 165); Buttmann, 40 (35)) and εἴχοσαν (L T Tr WH in John 15:22, 24; but cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) in Theol. Studien und Kritiken 1858, pp. 485ff 491; see his N. T. Gr., p. 43 (37); (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 39; Tdf. Proleg., p. 124; WHs Appendix, p. 165; cf. δολιόω
); present middle participle ἐχόμενος; to have — with 2 aorist active ἔσχον; perfect ἔσχηκα;
I. Transitively.
1. to have equivalent to to hold;
a. to have (hold) in the hand: τί ἐν τῇ χειρί, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 6:5; Revelation 10:2; Revelation 17:4; and simply, Revelation 5:8; Revelation 8:3, 6; Revelation 14:6, etc.; Hebrews 8:3.
b. in the sense of wearing (Latingestare); of garments, arms and the like: τό ἔνδυμα, Matthew 3:4; Matthew 22:12; κατά κεφαλῆς ἔχων, namely, τί, having a covering hanging down from the head, i. e. having the head covered (Buttmann, § 130, 5; Winer's Grammar, § 47, k. cf. 594 (552)), 1 Corinthians 11:4; θώρακας, Revelation 9:17; μάχαιραν, John 18:10; add Matthew 26:7; Mark 14:3; of a tree having (bearing) leaves, Mark 11:13; ἐν γαστρί ἔχειν, namely, ἔμβρυον, to be pregnant (cf. Winers Grammar, 594 (552); Buttmann, 144 (126)) (see γαστήρ, 2). Metaphorically, ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχειν τό ἀπόκριμα, 2 Corinthians 1:9; τήν μαρτυρίαν, 1 John 5:10; ἐν καρδία ἔχειν τινα, to have (carry) one in one's heart, to love one constantly, Philippians 1:7.
c. tropically, to have (hold) possession of the mind; said of alarm, agitating emotions, etc.: ἐίχειν αὐτάς τρόμος καί ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8 (Job 21:6; Isaiah 13:8, and often in secular authors; cf. Passow, under the word, p. 1294f; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, A. I. 8)).
d. to hold fast, keep: ἡ μνᾶ σου, ἥν εἶχον ἀποκειμένην ἐν σουδαρίῳ, Luke 19:20; tropically, τόν Θεόν ἔχειν ἐν ἐπιγνώσει, Romans 1:28; to keep in mind, τάς ἐντολάς, John 14:21 (see ἐντολή, under the end); τήν μαρτυρίαν, Revelation 6:9; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10; τό μυστήριον τῆς πίστεως ἐν καθαρά συνειδήσει, 1 Timothy 3:9; ὑποτύπωσιν ὑγιαινόντων λόγων, 2 Timothy 1:13.
e. to have (in itself or as a consequence), comprise, involve: ἔργον, James 1:4; James 2:17; κόλασιν, 1 John 4:18; μισθαποδοσίαν, Hebrews 10:35 (Wis. 8:16). See examples from Greek authors in Passow, under the word, p. 1296f; (Liddell and Scott, see A. I. 8 and 10).
f. by a Latinism equivalent toaestimo, to regard, consider, hold as (but this sense is still denied by Meyer, on Luke as below; Matthew 14:5): τινα with the accusative of the predicate, ἔχε με παρῃτημένον, have me excused, Luke 14:18; τινα ὡς προφήτην, Matthew 14:5; Matthew 21:26 (ἔχειν Ἰαννην καί Ἰαμβρην ὡς Θεούς, Ev. Nicod. 5); τινα ἔντιμον (see ἔντιμος, Philippians 2:29; τήν ψυχήν μου (G omits μου τιμίαν ἐμαυτῷ, Acts 20:24 R G; τινα εἰς προφήτην (a Hebraism (see εἰς, B. II. 3 c. Ψ. at the end)), for a prophet, Matthew 21:46 L T Tr WH, cf. Buttmann, § 131, 7; τινα, ὅτι ὄντως (T Tr WH ὄντως, ὅτι etc.) προφήτης ἦν, Mark 11:32, cf. Buttmann, § 151, 1 a.; (Winer's Grammar, § 66, 5 a.).
2. to have equivalent to to own, possess;
............................................
Skinski:
are you saying you have no sin?
no 50 mile long wall of text rubbish about accidental or "unwillful" sin.
ARGUE WITH THE APOSTLE JESUS LOVED ABOUT THAT IF YOU DARE.
are you without sin?
____ YES
____ NO
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
..........................................................................................................
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I have, hold, possess
Definition: I have, hold, possess.
Definition
to have, hold
ability (1), able (1), accompany (1), acknowledge* (1), am (2), become (1), been (3), being (1), being under (1), bringing (1), conceived* (1), consider (2), considered (2), could (2), derive (1), deriving (1), devoid* (1), enjoyed (1), experiencing (1), felt (1), following (1), get (2), gripped (1), had (80), has (134), have (283), have had (2), having (50), held (1), hold (5), holding (7), holds (2), ill* (5), incurring (1), involves (1), keep (3), keeping (3), kept (1), maintain (1), maintained (1), maintaining (1), meets (1), nearby (1), next (2), obliged* (1), obtain (2), obtained (1), owned (3), possess (2), possessed (4), possesses (1), receive (1), received (1), recover* (1), regard (2), regarded (1), reigns* (1), remember* (1), retain (1), seize (1), show (1), think* (1), unable* (1), under (1), under* (1), use (1), without* (3).
STRONGS NT 2192: ἔχω
ἔχω; future ἕξω; imperfect εἶχον (1 person plural ἐιχαμεν, 2 John 1:5 T Tr WH), 3 person plural ἐιχαν (Mark 8:7 L T Tr WH; Revelation 9:8 L T Tr WH; but cf. (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 38; Tdf. Proleg., p. 123; WHs Appendix, p. 165); Buttmann, 40 (35)) and εἴχοσαν (L T Tr WH in John 15:22, 24; but cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) in Theol. Studien und Kritiken 1858, pp. 485ff 491; see his N. T. Gr., p. 43 (37); (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 39; Tdf. Proleg., p. 124; WHs Appendix, p. 165; cf. δολιόω
); present middle participle ἐχόμενος; to have — with 2 aorist active ἔσχον; perfect ἔσχηκα;I. Transitively.
1. to have equivalent to to hold;
a. to have (hold) in the hand: τί ἐν τῇ χειρί, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 6:5; Revelation 10:2; Revelation 17:4; and simply, Revelation 5:8; Revelation 8:3, 6; Revelation 14:6, etc.; Hebrews 8:3.
b. in the sense of wearing (Latingestare); of garments, arms and the like: τό ἔνδυμα, Matthew 3:4; Matthew 22:12; κατά κεφαλῆς ἔχων, namely, τί, having a covering hanging down from the head, i. e. having the head covered (Buttmann, § 130, 5; Winer's Grammar, § 47, k. cf. 594 (552)), 1 Corinthians 11:4; θώρακας, Revelation 9:17; μάχαιραν, John 18:10; add Matthew 26:7; Mark 14:3; of a tree having (bearing) leaves, Mark 11:13; ἐν γαστρί ἔχειν, namely, ἔμβρυον, to be pregnant (cf. Winers Grammar, 594 (552); Buttmann, 144 (126)) (see γαστήρ, 2). Metaphorically, ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχειν τό ἀπόκριμα, 2 Corinthians 1:9; τήν μαρτυρίαν, 1 John 5:10; ἐν καρδία ἔχειν τινα, to have (carry) one in one's heart, to love one constantly, Philippians 1:7.
c. tropically, to have (hold) possession of the mind; said of alarm, agitating emotions, etc.: ἐίχειν αὐτάς τρόμος καί ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8 (Job 21:6; Isaiah 13:8, and often in secular authors; cf. Passow, under the word, p. 1294f; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, A. I. 8)).
d. to hold fast, keep: ἡ μνᾶ σου, ἥν εἶχον ἀποκειμένην ἐν σουδαρίῳ, Luke 19:20; tropically, τόν Θεόν ἔχειν ἐν ἐπιγνώσει, Romans 1:28; to keep in mind, τάς ἐντολάς, John 14:21 (see ἐντολή, under the end); τήν μαρτυρίαν, Revelation 6:9; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10; τό μυστήριον τῆς πίστεως ἐν καθαρά συνειδήσει, 1 Timothy 3:9; ὑποτύπωσιν ὑγιαινόντων λόγων, 2 Timothy 1:13.
e. to have (in itself or as a consequence), comprise, involve: ἔργον, James 1:4; James 2:17; κόλασιν, 1 John 4:18; μισθαποδοσίαν, Hebrews 10:35 (Wis. 8:16). See examples from Greek authors in Passow, under the word, p. 1296f; (Liddell and Scott, see A. I. 8 and 10).
f. by a Latinism equivalent toaestimo, to regard, consider, hold as (but this sense is still denied by Meyer, on Luke as below; Matthew 14:5): τινα with the accusative of the predicate, ἔχε με παρῃτημένον, have me excused, Luke 14:18; τινα ὡς προφήτην, Matthew 14:5; Matthew 21:26 (ἔχειν Ἰαννην καί Ἰαμβρην ὡς Θεούς, Ev. Nicod. 5); τινα ἔντιμον (see ἔντιμος
, Philippians 2:29; τήν ψυχήν μου (G omits μου τιμίαν ἐμαυτῷ, Acts 20:24 R G; τινα εἰς προφήτην (a Hebraism (see εἰς, B. II. 3 c. Ψ. at the end)), for a prophet, Matthew 21:46 L T Tr WH, cf. Buttmann, § 131, 7; τινα, ὅτι ὄντως (T Tr WH ὄντως, ὅτι etc.) προφήτης ἦν, Mark 11:32, cf. Buttmann, § 151, 1 a.; (Winer's Grammar, § 66, 5 a.).2. to have equivalent to to own, possess;
............................................
Skinski:
are you saying you have no sin?
no 50 mile long wall of text rubbish about accidental or "unwillful" sin.
ARGUE WITH THE APOSTLE JESUS LOVED ABOUT THAT IF YOU DARE.
are you without sin?
____ YES
____ NO
There absolutely is a lot of striving to be done to enter in at the strait gate. You have to find out first hand that YOU can't work your way into heaven. You have to ask...
That is coming to Jesus.
But Salvation, which happens after you come to Jesus, is His Work. Striving stops and being led by The Good Shepherd begins.
If only you understood Philippians...
Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Jeremiah 33:3,8-9
3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Salvation is not a free gift, it's a priceless gift. We have nothing that we can do, perform or trade for it. We just come to Him and ask. The coming to Him part is essential.
It is important to know that we don't cause God to act. We ask God and He, out of His mercy and forgiveness, gives us gifts of Love.
I really don't see how I can show you your error through scriptures that you don't understand and misapply. You don't understand that Christians do because they are saved. You can't do anything to make God owe you Salvation. Your works are weak and worthless before Him. That is why you need salvation to begin with.
That is coming to Jesus.
But Salvation, which happens after you come to Jesus, is His Work. Striving stops and being led by The Good Shepherd begins.
If only you understood Philippians...
Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Jeremiah 33:3,8-9
3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
Salvation is not a free gift, it's a priceless gift. We have nothing that we can do, perform or trade for it. We just come to Him and ask. The coming to Him part is essential.
It is important to know that we don't cause God to act. We ask God and He, out of His mercy and forgiveness, gives us gifts of Love.
I really don't see how I can show you your error through scriptures that you don't understand and misapply. You don't understand that Christians do because they are saved. You can't do anything to make God owe you Salvation. Your works are weak and worthless before Him. That is why you need salvation to begin with.
The strongholds of the delusion are very powerful indeed.
A single statement of truth may be contradicted by 100 lies. If 5 lies are cast down then there remain 95 more lies contradicting the single statement of truth. Thus the person in delusion will reject the truth because they are in bondage to many lies.
It is the same with the strong delusion which has overcome the minds of most who profess Jesus Christ. These people have listened and bought into the lies of a multitude of false teachers. The delusion is like an onion which has layer upon layer of deception.
Paul when he came to Christ counted all that came before as dung. This is why those who would come to Christ must come as little children willing to yield to the simplicity that is in Christ. Those who remain stubborn in their misconceptions will remain deceived until the very end unfortunately.
I hope you Colours are not one of them.
You state this...
You are appealing to Isaiah Chapter 64 in order to support that "anything that we could possibly do is as filthy rags before God." Is this true?
Here is the passage in question...
Isa 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Isa 64:2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!
Isa 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
Isa 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Isa 64:9 Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people.
Isa 64:10 Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
Isa 64:11 Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
Isa 64:12 Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?
This is a prayer of Isaiah to God and he is speaking of Israel in a corporate sense (Isa 64:9-11). Isaiah states that God comes to and saves those whom rejoice and work righteousness and remember God in their ways (Isa 64:5).
Isaiah speaks of how corporate Israel (us) have been consumed because of their iniquities (Isa 64:7), that none of these call upon God, that none of these stir themselves to take a hold of God. It is these people whose "righteousness is as filth rags" because they have sought a righteousness APART from God.
Do you really think that the behaviour of the people mentioned in Isa 64:5, who rejoice and remember God in their ways and work righteous, is viewed as filthy rags?
Have you ever actually looked up and read Isa 64:6 and read it in context?
How about Abel who bore witness to God that he was righteous by a sacrifice which God accepted...
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Do you really believe that God viewed the work of Abel in offering a sacrifice to God as a filthy rag? I mean that is what you are clearly implying.
Think about it.
How about the parents of John the Baptist.
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Are you going to use Isa 64:6 to claim that when Zacharias and Elisabeth were WALKING in the commandments and ordinances of the Lord BLAMELESS that God viewed that as filthy rags?
How about Solomon. Is the following righteousness as filthy rags before God?
Pro 11:4 Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.
Pro 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.
Pro 11:6 The righteousness of the upright shall deliver them: but transgressors shall be taken in their own naughtiness.
Righteousness is simply doing what is right. Don't be deceived!
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
How do we DO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
Simple.
We yield to God.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
We don't establish our own standard of right conduct. No, we yield to the standard expounded by God.
The righteousness of the law (God's standard) is established in the heart by faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
When we yield to the Spirit of God by faith we fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Thus we are obeying God FROM THE HEART.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Where does obeying God from the heart get us?
It leads to this...
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Which leads to this...
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Which leads to this...
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
It is very simple. It is what the Bible plainly teaches. Please don't reject it.
Without holiness no-one will see the Lord.
Heb_12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Think carefully about what you are saying Colour. It is very regurgitate the sound bytes of the strong delusion which the false teachers constantly allude to. The errors are very simple to expose if one simply clear their mind and allows God to teach them as a child.
Be like a Berean and study the scriptures to see if all the things you believe are actually true. If what you believe apparently contradicts then find out why. Is it possible that you have bought into a lie? When one is deceived they do not know it, such is the nature of deception.
Clearly salvation to you, by your own admission, is simply an abstract provision that has NOTHING to do with your conduct. Salvation to you is a legal transaction whereby the condemnation wrought by rebellion is removed yet the actual BONDAGE to sin can remain.
Jesus came to save people FROM their sins.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
He did not come to save people IN their sins. There is a very BIG DIFFERENCE between the two.
Why did Jesus give Himself for you?
Here is why...
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
HAVE YOU been redeemed from ALL INIQUITY?
HAVE YOU been PURIFIED?
or are you one of the MANY who still WORK INIQUITY?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
By your own admission you defend the case of remaining a worker of iniquity while being saved from condemnation for you say...
Nobody is perfect eh? I agree that no-one is perfect in the sense that we err in understanding and are prone to make mistakes.
Yet Jesus spoke of being perfect.
Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Was he commanding something that was impossible? Was Jesus saying to be something that you cannot be? That is clearly what you are asserting.
Have you ever looked up the meaning of perfect?
G5046
PERFECT - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
It has to do with moral character. That is the perfection Christ calls us to.
Look at this passage...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
G5048
Perfect - teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
G5046
Perfect - teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
God calls us to MORAL PERFECTION. You are preaching against the call when you say "nobody is perfect" when Paul said, "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:"
Is Paul in error or are you in error?
You then appeal to the Romans 7 wretch as a supporting passage to your assertion that "no-one is perfect."
The Romans Wretch is...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Those who have died with Christ have been...
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
In your mind the "freed from sin" is only being "set free from condemnation"
Which is why you say...
Thus in your mind "grace" is a cover for ongoing rebellion. What did Paul teach?
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [He taught that grace abounded when sin abounded.}
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. [Grace reigns THROUGH righteousness (compare with Rom 8:2-4 for righteousness comes by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ ie. walking after the Spirit)]
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [Here Paul asks a very important question, he alludes to the fact that because the grace of God has abounded then does that mean that we should continue in sin?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [Paul answers with an emphatic NO because he understands what dying with Christ actually means. He then goes on to elaborate clearly what it means to die with Christ and be raised up with him.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [It is through the body of sin being destroyed via the old man being crucified that we longer serve sin.]
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
A single statement of truth may be contradicted by 100 lies. If 5 lies are cast down then there remain 95 more lies contradicting the single statement of truth. Thus the person in delusion will reject the truth because they are in bondage to many lies.
It is the same with the strong delusion which has overcome the minds of most who profess Jesus Christ. These people have listened and bought into the lies of a multitude of false teachers. The delusion is like an onion which has layer upon layer of deception.
Paul when he came to Christ counted all that came before as dung. This is why those who would come to Christ must come as little children willing to yield to the simplicity that is in Christ. Those who remain stubborn in their misconceptions will remain deceived until the very end unfortunately.
I hope you Colours are not one of them.
You state this...
You are appealing to Isaiah Chapter 64 in order to support that "anything that we could possibly do is as filthy rags before God." Is this true?
Here is the passage in question...
Isa 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Isa 64:2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!
Isa 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
Isa 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Isa 64:9 Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people.
Isa 64:10 Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
Isa 64:11 Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
Isa 64:12 Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?
This is a prayer of Isaiah to God and he is speaking of Israel in a corporate sense (Isa 64:9-11). Isaiah states that God comes to and saves those whom rejoice and work righteousness and remember God in their ways (Isa 64:5).
Isaiah speaks of how corporate Israel (us) have been consumed because of their iniquities (Isa 64:7), that none of these call upon God, that none of these stir themselves to take a hold of God. It is these people whose "righteousness is as filth rags" because they have sought a righteousness APART from God.
Do you really think that the behaviour of the people mentioned in Isa 64:5, who rejoice and remember God in their ways and work righteous, is viewed as filthy rags?
Have you ever actually looked up and read Isa 64:6 and read it in context?
How about Abel who bore witness to God that he was righteous by a sacrifice which God accepted...
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Do you really believe that God viewed the work of Abel in offering a sacrifice to God as a filthy rag? I mean that is what you are clearly implying.
Think about it.
How about the parents of John the Baptist.
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Are you going to use Isa 64:6 to claim that when Zacharias and Elisabeth were WALKING in the commandments and ordinances of the Lord BLAMELESS that God viewed that as filthy rags?
How about Solomon. Is the following righteousness as filthy rags before God?
Pro 11:4 Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.
Pro 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.
Pro 11:6 The righteousness of the upright shall deliver them: but transgressors shall be taken in their own naughtiness.
Righteousness is simply doing what is right. Don't be deceived!
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
How do we DO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
Simple.
We yield to God.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
We don't establish our own standard of right conduct. No, we yield to the standard expounded by God.
The righteousness of the law (God's standard) is established in the heart by faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
When we yield to the Spirit of God by faith we fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Thus we are obeying God FROM THE HEART.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Where does obeying God from the heart get us?
It leads to this...
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Which leads to this...
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Which leads to this...
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
It is very simple. It is what the Bible plainly teaches. Please don't reject it.
Without holiness no-one will see the Lord.
Heb_12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Think carefully about what you are saying Colour. It is very regurgitate the sound bytes of the strong delusion which the false teachers constantly allude to. The errors are very simple to expose if one simply clear their mind and allows God to teach them as a child.
Be like a Berean and study the scriptures to see if all the things you believe are actually true. If what you believe apparently contradicts then find out why. Is it possible that you have bought into a lie? When one is deceived they do not know it, such is the nature of deception.
Clearly salvation to you, by your own admission, is simply an abstract provision that has NOTHING to do with your conduct. Salvation to you is a legal transaction whereby the condemnation wrought by rebellion is removed yet the actual BONDAGE to sin can remain.
Jesus came to save people FROM their sins.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
He did not come to save people IN their sins. There is a very BIG DIFFERENCE between the two.
Why did Jesus give Himself for you?
Here is why...
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
HAVE YOU been redeemed from ALL INIQUITY?
HAVE YOU been PURIFIED?
or are you one of the MANY who still WORK INIQUITY?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
By your own admission you defend the case of remaining a worker of iniquity while being saved from condemnation for you say...
Nobody is perfect eh? I agree that no-one is perfect in the sense that we err in understanding and are prone to make mistakes.
Yet Jesus spoke of being perfect.
Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Was he commanding something that was impossible? Was Jesus saying to be something that you cannot be? That is clearly what you are asserting.
Have you ever looked up the meaning of perfect?
G5046
PERFECT - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
It has to do with moral character. That is the perfection Christ calls us to.
Look at this passage...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
G5048
Perfect - teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
G5046
Perfect - teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
God calls us to MORAL PERFECTION. You are preaching against the call when you say "nobody is perfect" when Paul said, "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:"
Is Paul in error or are you in error?
You then appeal to the Romans 7 wretch as a supporting passage to your assertion that "no-one is perfect."
The Romans Wretch is...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Those who have died with Christ have been...
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
In your mind the "freed from sin" is only being "set free from condemnation"
Which is why you say...
Thus in your mind "grace" is a cover for ongoing rebellion. What did Paul teach?
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: [He taught that grace abounded when sin abounded.}
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. [Grace reigns THROUGH righteousness (compare with Rom 8:2-4 for righteousness comes by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ ie. walking after the Spirit)]
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [Here Paul asks a very important question, he alludes to the fact that because the grace of God has abounded then does that mean that we should continue in sin?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [Paul answers with an emphatic NO because he understands what dying with Christ actually means. He then goes on to elaborate clearly what it means to die with Christ and be raised up with him.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [It is through the body of sin being destroyed via the old man being crucified that we longer serve sin.]
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Jesus came to set men FREE INDEED from their sin.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Jesus did not come to set you free from sin so that you can still yield to sin as its slave. No way.
The cross IS NOT an abstract provision which, when you trust in it, you are positionally or legally saved (Penal Substitution doctrine). That is heresy.
The cross is an instrument of death. The sinner MUST DIE with Christ in repentance where their old life passes away once and for all. Only then is the former rebel raised up by the power of God WITH CHRIST to newness of life. So are partakers in Christ's sufferings for we die with Him. We die to a life of selfishly fulfilling carnal desires which is in opposition to loving one's neighbour.
It is through the sin offering of Jesus on the cross that we can approach God for reconciliation. It is through the blood of Jesus Christ that our past rebellion is remitted. God basically gives us a fresh start where we can serve Him obediently from the heart by a faith that works by love.
The Romans 7 wretch is not an allusion to a saved person. Paul is making an allusion to a person who is under the law and is under deep conviction. The wretch is still in bondage to sin and needs deliverance from the body of death. That deliverance is through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) which one can access through dying with Christ (Rom 6:4-7).
Paul is not teaching in Romans 7 that a Christian is going to be in bondage to sin all the days of his life. That is a satanic perversion of that passage to support the false belief that you can continue in sin and not surely die. It is a satanic used to support a denial of heart purity.
Paul taught this...
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
That IS NOT the Romans 7 wretch.
The Romans 7 Wretch is CARNAL AND SOLD UNDER SIN.
Paul wrote this...
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It is for this reason that the OLD MAN MUST DIE. The old man CANNOT be reformed. The old man has to be put to death once and for all through a process of godly sorrow and repentance. It is only then that one can yield to God. If one is still living according to the passions and desires of their flesh because they have not crucified them then they are enemies of God.
Don't be deceived about this. This is what the BIBLE CLEARLY TEACHES.
Understanding it is ESSENTIAL in regards to the salvation of your soul. Don't blow it off as some heresy. It is written PLAINLY in the Scripture and you willfully ignore it at your own peril.
You go on to say,
Jesus said that He did not condemn her and then commanded her to "GO AND SIN NO MORE!" You can bet that that woman was full of sorrow because she was about to be stoned to death. Jesus offered her mercy but he did not pronounce her saved and going to heaven in no regards for her future conduct. You are reading such an assertion into the text when it says NO SUCH THING.
If that woman would have continued to sin and then died in her sin she would have most certainly perished. Don't be deceived into thinking you can sin and not surely die. The Bible clearly says this...
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
God is going to judge you by what YOU DO.
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
You state,
Look at the passage for yourself....
Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. [These were wicked men who were doing what they were doing in order to find something with which they could accuse Jesus with]
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [Here Jesus exposes their hypocrisy, just like in Matthew 7:3-5 where He taught to cast out the beam in our own eyes first. Paul taught the same thing in 2Cor 10:6 when he said that our obedience needs to be fulfilled before we can revenge (contend against) the disobedience of others.]
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. [Jesus didn't come to condemn anyone (Joh 3:17). He came to save those who would come THROUGH HIM. Jesus did not need to condemn anyone for everyone is already condemned. Jesus came to rescue people from their condemnation.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Look at the last verse above. Those who shall have the right to life are those who FOLLOW Jesus and by following Jesus they will not be WALKING IN DARKNESS. Your walk is how you conduct yourself. The Romans Wretch is walking in darkness for he KNOWS NOT.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
G1097
Allow - ginōskō
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.
Again I'll point out Joh 8:12 and compare it to Mark 8:34-35.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
You CANNOT follow Jesus if you do not first take up your cross and deny yourself. The grain of wheat MUST DIE before it can grow and bear the fruit of righteousness. Jesus taught that you have to LOSE YOUR LIFE for His sake in order to save it.
Compare the Scriptures! It is not my opinion, this is what the Bible PLAINLY TEACHES.
You state this which is pretty unbelievable...
Those who are truly born again ARE PURE.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are born of an INCORRUPTIBLE SEED which lives and abides forever. This is the implanted word which saves our soul. When we receive this word it produces heart purity within.
I am not longer the vile person I was before. God redeemed me from my iniquity and purified me from within. It is possible and it is ESSENTIAL. If your heart is not purified then you will not see God. Do not be deceived.
You then refer to the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus taught about heart purity as opposed to a mere showing of outward righteousness. Our righteousness is to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees and that is attained by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ by a faith that works by love where we love God and our neighbour with a pure heart and thus we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.
Satan is a roaring lion and he is seeking whom he may devour. Clear your mind and just read the scriptures and yield to the truth as it is revealed.
God bless.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Jesus did not come to set you free from sin so that you can still yield to sin as its slave. No way.
The cross IS NOT an abstract provision which, when you trust in it, you are positionally or legally saved (Penal Substitution doctrine). That is heresy.
The cross is an instrument of death. The sinner MUST DIE with Christ in repentance where their old life passes away once and for all. Only then is the former rebel raised up by the power of God WITH CHRIST to newness of life. So are partakers in Christ's sufferings for we die with Him. We die to a life of selfishly fulfilling carnal desires which is in opposition to loving one's neighbour.
It is through the sin offering of Jesus on the cross that we can approach God for reconciliation. It is through the blood of Jesus Christ that our past rebellion is remitted. God basically gives us a fresh start where we can serve Him obediently from the heart by a faith that works by love.
The Romans 7 wretch is not an allusion to a saved person. Paul is making an allusion to a person who is under the law and is under deep conviction. The wretch is still in bondage to sin and needs deliverance from the body of death. That deliverance is through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) which one can access through dying with Christ (Rom 6:4-7).
Paul is not teaching in Romans 7 that a Christian is going to be in bondage to sin all the days of his life. That is a satanic perversion of that passage to support the false belief that you can continue in sin and not surely die. It is a satanic used to support a denial of heart purity.
Paul taught this...
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
That IS NOT the Romans 7 wretch.
The Romans 7 Wretch is CARNAL AND SOLD UNDER SIN.
Paul wrote this...
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It is for this reason that the OLD MAN MUST DIE. The old man CANNOT be reformed. The old man has to be put to death once and for all through a process of godly sorrow and repentance. It is only then that one can yield to God. If one is still living according to the passions and desires of their flesh because they have not crucified them then they are enemies of God.
Don't be deceived about this. This is what the BIBLE CLEARLY TEACHES.
Understanding it is ESSENTIAL in regards to the salvation of your soul. Don't blow it off as some heresy. It is written PLAINLY in the Scripture and you willfully ignore it at your own peril.
You go on to say,
Jesus said that He did not condemn her and then commanded her to "GO AND SIN NO MORE!" You can bet that that woman was full of sorrow because she was about to be stoned to death. Jesus offered her mercy but he did not pronounce her saved and going to heaven in no regards for her future conduct. You are reading such an assertion into the text when it says NO SUCH THING.
If that woman would have continued to sin and then died in her sin she would have most certainly perished. Don't be deceived into thinking you can sin and not surely die. The Bible clearly says this...
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
God is going to judge you by what YOU DO.
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
You state,
Look at the passage for yourself....
Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. [These were wicked men who were doing what they were doing in order to find something with which they could accuse Jesus with]
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [Here Jesus exposes their hypocrisy, just like in Matthew 7:3-5 where He taught to cast out the beam in our own eyes first. Paul taught the same thing in 2Cor 10:6 when he said that our obedience needs to be fulfilled before we can revenge (contend against) the disobedience of others.]
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. [Jesus didn't come to condemn anyone (Joh 3:17). He came to save those who would come THROUGH HIM. Jesus did not need to condemn anyone for everyone is already condemned. Jesus came to rescue people from their condemnation.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Look at the last verse above. Those who shall have the right to life are those who FOLLOW Jesus and by following Jesus they will not be WALKING IN DARKNESS. Your walk is how you conduct yourself. The Romans Wretch is walking in darkness for he KNOWS NOT.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
G1097
Allow - ginōskō
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.
Again I'll point out Joh 8:12 and compare it to Mark 8:34-35.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
You CANNOT follow Jesus if you do not first take up your cross and deny yourself. The grain of wheat MUST DIE before it can grow and bear the fruit of righteousness. Jesus taught that you have to LOSE YOUR LIFE for His sake in order to save it.
Compare the Scriptures! It is not my opinion, this is what the Bible PLAINLY TEACHES.
You state this which is pretty unbelievable...
Those who are truly born again ARE PURE.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are born of an INCORRUPTIBLE SEED which lives and abides forever. This is the implanted word which saves our soul. When we receive this word it produces heart purity within.
I am not longer the vile person I was before. God redeemed me from my iniquity and purified me from within. It is possible and it is ESSENTIAL. If your heart is not purified then you will not see God. Do not be deceived.
You then refer to the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus taught about heart purity as opposed to a mere showing of outward righteousness. Our righteousness is to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees and that is attained by abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ by a faith that works by love where we love God and our neighbour with a pure heart and thus we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.
Satan is a roaring lion and he is seeking whom he may devour. Clear your mind and just read the scriptures and yield to the truth as it is revealed.
God bless.
I'm pretty sure those that are pure like him don't have to be. That "born from above" stuff is only for sinners
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Being born from above is an act of God. No-one can raise themselves up for it is by the power of God not of anything we can do.
Yet this being so does not negate the truth that a sinner must FIRST die with Christ BEFORE God will raise them up. A grain of wheat must FIRST die before it grow anew and be fruitful.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
God will not save anyone who refuses to forsake their rebellion, for one cannot obey God from the heart whilst in rebellion. Obedience and disobedience are two mutually exclusive terms.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
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Are you, or are you not, teaching people all the things they must do to merit salvation?
They must yield, they must obey, they must repent, they must perform, they must strive etc... etc...
The Lord says you have not because you ask not. He doesn't say you have not because of your lack of performance. He says He will perform it. He says He will cause you to walk in His statutes. He will put His Holy Spirit in you.
They must yield, they must obey, they must repent, they must perform, they must strive etc... etc...
The Lord says you have not because you ask not. He doesn't say you have not because of your lack of performance. He says He will perform it. He says He will cause you to walk in His statutes. He will put His Holy Spirit in you.
U
So "WE must first die with Christ" before "the power of God can save us" ?? How do "we" do just that ? It's not about us or what "we" must do Skinski. Never was and never will be. Do you understand what I'm saying ? I dare ya to watch this beautiful clip without a tear swelling in your eye
O Holy Night - Josh Groban - YouTube
O Holy Night - Josh Groban - YouTube
That is essentially what God is saving us from, our own rebellion.
A person can't obey God without being given the Power to obey. A person doesn't just decide one day to become Spiritual. A person is born, spiritually, by God and this is the power that is able to obey Him. The Spirit.
Psalm 40:1-4
1 I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord.
4 Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
You can't really understand where your spirit is and what you need to become saved until He shows you. Your perfect obedience in the flesh doesn't pull you out of the pit, out of the miry clay. Only the Lord Jesus Christ has the Power to get you out of there, to translate you from the kingdom of Darkness into the Kingdom of God.
If a person cries out for help scripture says God will save them. I haven't read anywhere in the bible where it says first you must cleanse your own heart or first you must forsake all rebellion and become obedient.
All a person needs is to be honest before God and ask for help.
If you desire help from God I suppose that is essentially forsaking rebellion, in the inner man. Your flesh will have some things to say about it. The flesh doesn't want to lose but its fighting a battle that it can't win...
A person can't obey God without being given the Power to obey. A person doesn't just decide one day to become Spiritual. A person is born, spiritually, by God and this is the power that is able to obey Him. The Spirit.
Psalm 40:1-4
1 I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord.
4 Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
You can't really understand where your spirit is and what you need to become saved until He shows you. Your perfect obedience in the flesh doesn't pull you out of the pit, out of the miry clay. Only the Lord Jesus Christ has the Power to get you out of there, to translate you from the kingdom of Darkness into the Kingdom of God.
If a person cries out for help scripture says God will save them. I haven't read anywhere in the bible where it says first you must cleanse your own heart or first you must forsake all rebellion and become obedient.
All a person needs is to be honest before God and ask for help.
If you desire help from God I suppose that is essentially forsaking rebellion, in the inner man. Your flesh will have some things to say about it. The flesh doesn't want to lose but its fighting a battle that it can't win...
God grants His mercy to sinner PURELY by His grace. A sinner deserves death for they have rebelled willfully against the Creator and His righteousness. Sin is no small issue for it brings reproach on God and causes havoc in His universe. Sin both hurts God and hurts others. Not a single sinner deserves to be given a pardon for their criminal conduct because they are guilty.
Therefore mercy, forgiveness and eternal life are not merited, deserved or earned. Yet God's mercy, forgiveness and the gift of eternal life are CONDITIONAL. God has commanded all men everywhere to repent. He commands all men everywhere to forsake their evil ways and to return to a submissive relationship to Him.
Jesus told people to repent. Jesus did not tell them that He would make them repent.
Jesus told people to be doers of the word and not hearers only. He did not tell them to just trust Him and that God would make them doers. Such thinking is rooted in the false teachings of the reformation where they teach men are born sinners by default and are thus unable to do anything right. If you buy into that teaching then the Gospel is perverted into a cloak for ongoing rebellion. The rebellious sinner does not have to repent, they just have to wait on God to make them repent and obey Him. That is Satan's lie to fool people into doing nothing.
The church system is full of multitudes of people who are in bondage to all sorts of wicked conduct and many of them are waiting on God to change their desires. They refuse to crucify their flesh as God commands them to do, they believe that if they had to do such a thing then it would be WORKS. It is pure foolishness. Read through my posts for I specifically address this fallacy many times.
Do you know how God causes you to walk in His statutes? He does it by quickening your spirit to life whereby you are in fellowship with Him again. The love of God is then manifest through your whole being and you are then able to mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit.
It is God that works in us to will and to do. God is the root dynamic of heart purity and righteousness. That root is effectual in application when we submit. It is no mystery.
Jas_4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
It is very simple to understand yet you again wrest scripture from context to argue against the plain reading of Scripture.
You state...
Where does it say that in the Bible?
If you are referring to James chapter 4 here is the context...
Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
It appears you have an aversion to all the "ifs" "buts" and "mights" in the Bible.
So "WE must first die with Christ" before "the power of God can save us" ?? How do "we" do just that ? It's not about us or what "we" must do Skinski. Never was and never will be. Do you understand what I'm saying ? I dare ya to watch this beautiful clip without a tear swelling in your eye
O Holy Night - Josh Groban - YouTube
O Holy Night - Josh Groban - YouTube
Yes you must die first just like a grain of wheat must die. Exactly as Jesus taught.
How do you do it? Through repentance and faith where the axe is laid to the root of iniquity in the heart.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
sa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Tertullian said this about repentance and he was right on...
True Repentance a Thing Divine, Originated by God, and Subject to His Laws.
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I have, hold, possess
Definition: I have, hold, possess.
Definition
to have, hold
ability (1), able (1), accompany (1), acknowledge* (1), am (2), become (1), been (3), being (1), being under (1), bringing (1), conceived* (1), consider (2), considered (2), could (2), derive (1), deriving (1), devoid* (1), enjoyed (1), experiencing (1), felt (1), following (1), get (2), gripped (1), had (80), has (134), have (283), have had (2), having (50), held (1), hold (5), holding (7), holds (2), ill* (5), incurring (1), involves (1), keep (3), keeping (3), kept (1), maintain (1), maintained (1), maintaining (1), meets (1), nearby (1), next (2), obliged* (1), obtain (2), obtained (1), owned (3), possess (2), possessed (4), possesses (1), receive (1), received (1), recover* (1), regard (2), regarded (1), reigns* (1), remember* (1), retain (1), seize (1), show (1), think* (1), unable* (1), under (1), under* (1), use (1), without* (3).
STRONGS NT 2192: ἔχω
ἔχω; future ἕξω; imperfect εἶχον (1 person plural ἐιχαμεν, 2 John 1:5 T Tr WH), 3 person plural ἐιχαν (Mark 8:7 L T Tr WH; Revelation 9:8 L T Tr WH; but cf. (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 38; Tdf. Proleg., p. 123; WHs Appendix, p. 165); Buttmann, 40 (35)) and εἴχοσαν (L T Tr WH in John 15:22, 24; but cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) in Theol. Studien und Kritiken 1858, pp. 485ff 491; see his N. T. Gr., p. 43 (37); (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 39; Tdf. Proleg., p. 124; WHs Appendix, p. 165; cf. δολιόω); present middle participle ἐχόμενος; to have — with 2 aorist active ἔσχον; perfect ἔσχηκα;
I. Transitively.
1. to have equivalent to to hold;
a. to have (hold) in the hand: τί ἐν τῇ χειρί, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 6:5; Revelation 10:2; Revelation 17:4; and simply, Revelation 5:8; Revelation 8:3, 6; Revelation 14:6, etc.; Hebrews 8:3.
b. in the sense of wearing (Latingestare); of garments, arms and the like: τό ἔνδυμα, Matthew 3:4; Matthew 22:12; κατά κεφαλῆς ἔχων, namely, τί, having a covering hanging down from the head, i. e. having the head covered (Buttmann, § 130, 5; Winer's Grammar, § 47, k. cf. 594 (552)), 1 Corinthians 11:4; θώρακας, Revelation 9:17; μάχαιραν, John 18:10; add Matthew 26:7; Mark 14:3; of a tree having (bearing) leaves, Mark 11:13; ἐν γαστρί ἔχειν, namely, ἔμβρυον, to be pregnant (cf. Winers Grammar, 594 (552); Buttmann, 144 (126)) (see γαστήρ, 2). Metaphorically, ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχειν τό ἀπόκριμα, 2 Corinthians 1:9; τήν μαρτυρίαν, 1 John 5:10; ἐν καρδία ἔχειν τινα, to have (carry) one in one's heart, to love one constantly, Philippians 1:7.
c. tropically, to have (hold) possession of the mind; said of alarm, agitating emotions, etc.: ἐίχειν αὐτάς τρόμος καί ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8 (Job 21:6; Isaiah 13:8, and often in secular authors; cf. Passow, under the word, p. 1294f; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, A. I. 8)).
d. to hold fast, keep: ἡ μνᾶ σου, ἥν εἶχον ἀποκειμένην ἐν σουδαρίῳ, Luke 19:20; tropically, τόν Θεόν ἔχειν ἐν ἐπιγνώσει, Romans 1:28; to keep in mind, τάς ἐντολάς, John 14:21 (see ἐντολή, under the end); τήν μαρτυρίαν, Revelation 6:9; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10; τό μυστήριον τῆς πίστεως ἐν καθαρά συνειδήσει, 1 Timothy 3:9; ὑποτύπωσιν ὑγιαινόντων λόγων, 2 Timothy 1:13.
e. to have (in itself or as a consequence), comprise, involve: ἔργον, James 1:4; James 2:17; κόλασιν, 1 John 4:18; μισθαποδοσίαν, Hebrews 10:35 (Wis. 8:16). See examples from Greek authors in Passow, under the word, p. 1296f; (Liddell and Scott, see A. I. 8 and 10).
f. by a Latinism equivalent toaestimo, to regard, consider, hold as (but this sense is still denied by Meyer, on Luke as below; Matthew 14:5): τινα with the accusative of the predicate, ἔχε με παρῃτημένον, have me excused, Luke 14:18; τινα ὡς προφήτην, Matthew 14:5; Matthew 21:26 (ἔχειν Ἰαννην καί Ἰαμβρην ὡς Θεούς, Ev. Nicod. 5); τινα ἔντιμον (see ἔντιμος, Philippians 2:29; τήν ψυχήν μου (G omits μου τιμίαν ἐμαυτῷ, Acts 20:24 R G; τινα εἰς προφήτην (a Hebraism (see εἰς, B. II. 3 c. Ψ. at the end)), for a prophet, Matthew 21:46 L T Tr WH, cf. Buttmann, § 131, 7; τινα, ὅτι ὄντως (T Tr WH ὄντως, ὅτι etc.) προφήτης ἦν, Mark 11:32, cf. Buttmann, § 151, 1 a.; (Winer's Grammar, § 66, 5 a.).
2. to have equivalent to to own, possess;
............................................
Skinski:
are you saying you have no sin?
no 50 mile long wall of text rubbish about accidental or "unwillful" sin.
ARGUE WITH THE APOSTLE JESUS LOVED ABOUT THAT IF YOU DARE.
are you without sin?
____ YES
____ NO
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
..........................................................................................................
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I have, hold, possess
Definition: I have, hold, possess.
Definition
to have, hold
ability (1), able (1), accompany (1), acknowledge* (1), am (2), become (1), been (3), being (1), being under (1), bringing (1), conceived* (1), consider (2), considered (2), could (2), derive (1), deriving (1), devoid* (1), enjoyed (1), experiencing (1), felt (1), following (1), get (2), gripped (1), had (80), has (134), have (283), have had (2), having (50), held (1), hold (5), holding (7), holds (2), ill* (5), incurring (1), involves (1), keep (3), keeping (3), kept (1), maintain (1), maintained (1), maintaining (1), meets (1), nearby (1), next (2), obliged* (1), obtain (2), obtained (1), owned (3), possess (2), possessed (4), possesses (1), receive (1), received (1), recover* (1), regard (2), regarded (1), reigns* (1), remember* (1), retain (1), seize (1), show (1), think* (1), unable* (1), under (1), under* (1), use (1), without* (3).
STRONGS NT 2192: ἔχω
ἔχω; future ἕξω; imperfect εἶχον (1 person plural ἐιχαμεν, 2 John 1:5 T Tr WH), 3 person plural ἐιχαν (Mark 8:7 L T Tr WH; Revelation 9:8 L T Tr WH; but cf. (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 38; Tdf. Proleg., p. 123; WHs Appendix, p. 165); Buttmann, 40 (35)) and εἴχοσαν (L T Tr WH in John 15:22, 24; but cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) in Theol. Studien und Kritiken 1858, pp. 485ff 491; see his N. T. Gr., p. 43 (37); (Sophocles Lexicon, Introduction, p. 39; Tdf. Proleg., p. 124; WHs Appendix, p. 165; cf. δολιόω
); present middle participle ἐχόμενος; to have — with 2 aorist active ἔσχον; perfect ἔσχηκα;I. Transitively.
1. to have equivalent to to hold;
a. to have (hold) in the hand: τί ἐν τῇ χειρί, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 6:5; Revelation 10:2; Revelation 17:4; and simply, Revelation 5:8; Revelation 8:3, 6; Revelation 14:6, etc.; Hebrews 8:3.
b. in the sense of wearing (Latingestare); of garments, arms and the like: τό ἔνδυμα, Matthew 3:4; Matthew 22:12; κατά κεφαλῆς ἔχων, namely, τί, having a covering hanging down from the head, i. e. having the head covered (Buttmann, § 130, 5; Winer's Grammar, § 47, k. cf. 594 (552)), 1 Corinthians 11:4; θώρακας, Revelation 9:17; μάχαιραν, John 18:10; add Matthew 26:7; Mark 14:3; of a tree having (bearing) leaves, Mark 11:13; ἐν γαστρί ἔχειν, namely, ἔμβρυον, to be pregnant (cf. Winers Grammar, 594 (552); Buttmann, 144 (126)) (see γαστήρ, 2). Metaphorically, ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχειν τό ἀπόκριμα, 2 Corinthians 1:9; τήν μαρτυρίαν, 1 John 5:10; ἐν καρδία ἔχειν τινα, to have (carry) one in one's heart, to love one constantly, Philippians 1:7.
c. tropically, to have (hold) possession of the mind; said of alarm, agitating emotions, etc.: ἐίχειν αὐτάς τρόμος καί ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8 (Job 21:6; Isaiah 13:8, and often in secular authors; cf. Passow, under the word, p. 1294f; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, A. I. 8)).
d. to hold fast, keep: ἡ μνᾶ σου, ἥν εἶχον ἀποκειμένην ἐν σουδαρίῳ, Luke 19:20; tropically, τόν Θεόν ἔχειν ἐν ἐπιγνώσει, Romans 1:28; to keep in mind, τάς ἐντολάς, John 14:21 (see ἐντολή, under the end); τήν μαρτυρίαν, Revelation 6:9; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10; τό μυστήριον τῆς πίστεως ἐν καθαρά συνειδήσει, 1 Timothy 3:9; ὑποτύπωσιν ὑγιαινόντων λόγων, 2 Timothy 1:13.
e. to have (in itself or as a consequence), comprise, involve: ἔργον, James 1:4; James 2:17; κόλασιν, 1 John 4:18; μισθαποδοσίαν, Hebrews 10:35 (Wis. 8:16). See examples from Greek authors in Passow, under the word, p. 1296f; (Liddell and Scott, see A. I. 8 and 10).
f. by a Latinism equivalent toaestimo, to regard, consider, hold as (but this sense is still denied by Meyer, on Luke as below; Matthew 14:5): τινα with the accusative of the predicate, ἔχε με παρῃτημένον, have me excused, Luke 14:18; τινα ὡς προφήτην, Matthew 14:5; Matthew 21:26 (ἔχειν Ἰαννην καί Ἰαμβρην ὡς Θεούς, Ev. Nicod. 5); τινα ἔντιμον (see ἔντιμος
, Philippians 2:29; τήν ψυχήν μου (G omits μου τιμίαν ἐμαυτῷ, Acts 20:24 R G; τινα εἰς προφήτην (a Hebraism (see εἰς, B. II. 3 c. Ψ. at the end)), for a prophet, Matthew 21:46 L T Tr WH, cf. Buttmann, § 131, 7; τινα, ὅτι ὄντως (T Tr WH ὄντως, ὅτι etc.) προφήτης ἦν, Mark 11:32, cf. Buttmann, § 151, 1 a.; (Winer's Grammar, § 66, 5 a.).2. to have equivalent to to own, possess;
............................................
Skinski:
are you saying you have no sin?
no 50 mile long wall of text rubbish about accidental or "unwillful" sin.
ARGUE WITH THE APOSTLE JESUS LOVED ABOUT THAT IF YOU DARE.
are you without sin?
____ YES
____ NO
Skinski?
have you been born again?
every truly regenerate man knows the answer to this.
it should be straight forward.
yes
or
no
no matter how hard i try i try i can't make my posts as long and tricky as yours.
yes or no?
U
Faith in WHAT Skinski ? Exactly what are you most grateful for concerning Christ's redemptive sacrifice for us on the Cross ? Any truly regenerated heart knows that faith without works is dead. But our works is not the issue. Being forgiven is. And our appreciation of God's forgiveness towards us in Christ will desire us to try to please Him in all things. But it is not these very works that have saved us. It is Jesus Christ ... and Him alone.