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May 13, 2017
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Well my Bible states the the wrath of God is announced from Heaven and poured out after the seventh trump sounds.
Before that, is tribulation.
Just because ungodly men, those who follow and worship the Man of Sin call it God's wrath does not make it so.
But wrath is coming after "great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be"
Matthew 24:21.
Notice that Jesus called it great tribulation, not the wrath of God.
I will take Jesus' word for it.
Uh......Yeah......I suggest you keep studying
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Well my Bible states the the wrath of God is announced from Heaven and poured out after the seventh trump sounds.
Before that, is tribulation.
Just because ungodly men, those who follow and worship the Man of Sin call it God's wrath does not make it so.
But wrath is coming after "great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be"
Matthew 24:21.
Notice that Jesus called it great tribulation, not the wrath of God.
I will take Jesus' word for it.
It is true the wrath of God is after the great tribulation that is for the last three and one half years of the 7 years period.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God is allowing the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when he addresses the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,that he is God,meaning he is supreme being,and there is no God,for he exalts himself above all that is called God,or worshipped,then he has power to continue for three and one half years,and has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and will make war against the saints,and prevail against them.

He has power to rule for the last three and one half years of the 7 years period,so God will not interfere with his ruling until the time is over,and then the wrath of God is poured on the world.

If God's wrath is poured out during the last three and one half years,then how does the beast have power to rule for three and one half years,and also he makes war against the saints for three and one half years,which the Bible says the saints shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years,and the saints will not be on earth when the wrath is poured out,so it is after the three and one half years.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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good idea, I know that we both are going to keep-on studying, for there is
so much to learn,,,
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
Hey Persuaded....When do you think those trumps will be blown? The second half of the trib. When else?
This is what I believe, but not like many on the form, I will admit I may be wrong.
The first seal will reveal the Man of Sin. Daniel states He will have 1290 days before Jesus returns.
He will attack Israel and drive them into the wilderness (30 days after he is revealed) where they will be protected by God until Jesus returns 1260 days.
After God stops the Man of Sin from destroying Israel, he will turn his attention toward the saints and make war on them until Jesus returns, 1260 that corresponds with the 1260 days Israel is in the wilderness.
Seals 2 thru 7 and the seven trumps will take place during these 1290 days that God allows the Man of Sin to do his thing.
This is the tribulation that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24.
When the seventh trump sounds, Jesus returns, The Man of Sin will be bound and cast into the pit, and then the seven vials of God's wrath will be poured out.
This wrath will last 45 days.
I get the 45 days by subtracting the 1290 days of the Man of Sins from the 1335 that Daniels.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Not arguing, just stating what the Scripture states.
I have studied (not just read) Daniel for 1000's of hours.
There is a difference between tribulation and wrath.
God's wrath is not poured out until after the seventh trump. Rev. 16
Common Tribulation = Jesus said that all believers would suffer trails and tribulations. These are tribulations have been going on from the on-set of the church and continue until this present day. This tribulation is not the wrath of God.

God's coming Wrath = This is God's coming, unprecedented wrath, also known as the day of the Lord and the hour of trial. Because the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, the church must then be gathered, followed by the rebellion and the revealing of the antichrist, which is that rider on the white horse, the first seal. This wrath will be in operation via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments throughout the entire seven years. God's wrath is identified in each set of seven judgments:

6th Seal:
"And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usb from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

7th Trumpet:
"The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come.

Seven bowl judgment:
"Then I saw another great and marvelous sign in heaven: seven angels with the seven last plagues, with which the wrath of God will be completed"

Scripture states that the seven bowls are last because with them God's wrath is completed. Since they are last, then other wrath would have to come before them. If you have wrath that is last, then you have to have wrath that is first or prior to.

As can be seen from the three scripture above, the announcement of God's wrath appears in each set of seven.

In addition, Jesus is the One who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and are followed by the bowls, which means that Jesus is the One responsible for carrying out God's wrath.

After the church has been gathered and the antichrist is revealed, then God's wrath will begin, not before.

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."

The church cannot and will not go through the wrath of God, as Jesus already suffered it completely and fully on behalf of every believer.
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
Common Tribulation = Jesus said that all believers would suffer trails and tribulations. These are tribulations have been going on from the on-set of the church and continue until this present day. This tribulation is not the wrath of God.

God's coming Wrath = This is God's coming, unprecedented wrath, also known as the day of the Lord and the hour of trial. Because the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, the church must then be gathered, followed by the rebellion and the revealing of the antichrist, which is that rider on the white horse, the first seal. This wrath will be in operation via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments throughout the entire seven years. God's wrath is identified in each set of seven judgments:

6th Seal:
"And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usb from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

7th Trumpet:
"The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come.

Seven bowl judgment:
"Then I saw another great and marvelous sign in heaven: seven angels with the seven last plagues, with which the wrath of God will be completed"

Scripture states that the seven bowls are last because with them God's wrath is completed. Since they are last, then other wrath would have to come before them. If you have wrath that is last, then you have to have wrath that is first or prior to.

As can be seen from the three scripture above, the announcement of God's wrath appears in each set of seven.

In addition, Jesus is the One who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and are followed by the bowls, which means that Jesus is the One responsible for carrying out God's wrath.

After the church has been gathered and the antichrist is revealed, then God's wrath will begin, not before.

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."

The church cannot and will not go through the wrath of God, as Jesus already suffered it completely and fully on behalf of every believer.
More opinions.
So when Jesus stated "great tribulation" in Matthew 24:21, He did not mean tribulation, He meant wrath.
That is your problem. You continue to change the Word of God to fit your belief.
You say wrath.
Jesus said "great tribulation".
I will always take the word of Jesus over that of a self proclaimed know it all any day.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Wrath is simply anger; Tribulation is the suffering because of the wrath.

The wrath of God is as we speak being been revealed every day the corruption continues. It will end on the last day, the Day of Judgment, the same day as the second and final resurrection.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

No need for the Holywood drama. Trying to make things into the future like that of the antichrist or the wrath of God that is already being revealed as some kind of sign we must "seek after" is not the gospel of Christ .He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night .

Sign are for obersevation not to be sought after. It and evil generation that does seek after them .The sign of Jonas that was to be sought after is over. We walk by faith
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Wrath is simply anger; Tribulation is the suffering because of the wrath.

The wrath of God is as we speak being been revealed every day the corruption continues. It will end on the last day, the Day of Judgment, the same day as the second and final resurrection.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

No need for the Holywood drama. Trying to make things into the future like that of the antichrist or the wrath of God that is already being revealed as some kind of sign we must "seek after" is not the gospel of Christ .He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night .

Sign are for obersevation not to be sought after. It and evil generation that does seek after them .The sign of Jonas that was to be sought after is over. We walk by faith
garee, there is a specific time where God's wrath, also referred to as the day of the Lord, which is unprecedented, will be poured out upon the entire earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This wrath will take place once the church as been removed and the antichrist has been revealed.

Romans 1:18 is not the talking about the wrath resulting from the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. You need to go and study those three sets of seven judgments before making your claim.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Miri, I just realized:

If the UK government trust citizens so much, why it is illegal there to carry even a pepper-spray for self-defense against dogs or attackers?

Crime rate is quite high in the UK, much higher than in the Czech rep and we are allowed to carry almost any weapon except of guns (but the laws on guns are quite free to, you just need to pass some exams to get it).

So it is not an argument that more weapons = more crime... what is the reason then?
 
May 13, 2017
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garee, there is a specific time where God's wrath, also referred to as the day of the Lord, which is unprecedented, will be poured out upon the entire earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This wrath will take place once the church as been removed and the antichrist has been revealed.

Romans 1:18 is not the talking about the wrath resulting from the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. You need to go and study those three sets of seven judgments before making your claim.
Yea! And that, I believe, is the second half of the seven year tribulation period