Contradiction of WORDS

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Grace:

Come unto Me, all you who labor & are heavy laden . . . and I will give you rest.

19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. 3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.


6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts.


8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience. . . .

16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.

By one sacrifice he has perfected forever.

saved to the uttermost.
Jesus Christ, the author & perfecter of our faith.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.
Again you contradict yourself here as you place conditional works as the means of obtaining that which is FREE.....and you are correct in this manner...as long as you place conditional meritorious works as the means by which you obtain that which is already FREE you will never understand biblical salvation.....just like a neighbor I had....trusted into his Campbellism over the words of God......! He would quote Campbell instead of the bible.........dude...time is running out....best thing you can do is chunk the doctrine you live by....pray and start over while being honest with the words FREE GIFT, Faith of Jesus, eternal and everlasting as applied unto biblical salvation!
 
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
How do you deal with Romans 3:10-11-18 and primarily verse 11...There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God....?

VS. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the LAW (works) there shall be no flesh justified in HIS sight.....
VS. 21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the LAW is manifested, being witnessed by the LAW and the Prophets; EVEN the righteousness of GOD which is by FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO all and UPON ALL them that BELIEVE

The reason our works cannot save us is two fold...

1. Because of man's natural fallen sate as found in verses 10-18 and
2. It is based upon the FAITH OF JESUS UPON ALL that BELIEVE!
I'm going to have to catch up with you on this later tonight. God bless.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

Come to Me . . . & I will give you rest.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, not of works.

But to him who does not work, but believes . . .


 
E

elf3

Guest
I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.
This is pretty rich SeaBass you not only contradict yourself on another forum but you did it PERFECTLY! Two forums in a row! Guess I'll start another one so you can go for three!
 
E

elf3

Guest
I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.
There is NO CONDITION TO A FREE GIFT! do I really need to give you the definition of free on this forum too?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
By Grace through faith!
Not of Works!

but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest


John 6:

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Come unto Me all you who labor & are heavy-laden . . . & I will GIVE YOU REST.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
This is pretty rich SeaBass you not only contradict yourself on another forum but you did it PERFECTLY! Two forums in a row! Guess I'll start another one so you can go for three!
His batting average would be 1000 so far.....1000 contradictions that is...HAH!
His philosophy......grace and salvation and faith are free....but you have to work for it, has strings attached and requires our own meritorious efforts and a watered down blood that looks like Cherry Kool Aid that has the ice melted in it!
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved, and receive the consequences of their unbelief.

It's not complicated.

But if God's free gift of salvation has no conditions, then it would not matter if one was living a disobedient lifestyle.

Your statement "Those who live a lifestyle of disobedience are not saved..." By this statement you are implying one must CONDITIONALLY live an OBEDIENT lifestyle to be saved. So does living that obedient lifestyle earn one's salvation?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Yes, and the healing of the paralytic to whom Jesus said take up his mat and walk

had to do those things in order to be healed.

More trying to support your non-Biblical theology by redefining the meaning of the word "free,"

which means just that.

And did working in meeting the conditions EARN his healing or was it of grace?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Abraham "believed" God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. Abraham walked out on his faith and trust in God's promise . . . IOW, he had faith in God and therefore obeyed. . . . Not obeyed then had faith.

Naaman had faith that he would be healed by following what Jesus told him to do because if he didn't have that faith he wouldn't have believed what Jesus told him and wouldn't have been dipped in the river 7 times. . . . He walked out in faith . . His faith led him to obedience.

Yes, Abraham "believed" God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. It does NOT say Abraham "believed only" in God and that "belief only" was counted as righteousness.


The issue with Naaman is did his obedience in working in going and dipping mean he earn his healing therefore his healing was not of grace?

He either earned it or it was of grace, not both at the same time....so his healing was earned and not of grace?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom. today you will be with Me in paradise. what work did the thief do?? none.
The thief is not an example of NT salvation, Heb 9:16,17.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.

16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

20 And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: 21 that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.


9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might become rich.

6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; . . . ANATHEMA!
 
E

elf3

Guest
I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.
Almost funny how you seem to keep going after what win says but you don't go after someone who says you have contradicted yourself twice.

Actually read what you wrote here..paraphrase..condition to a free gift.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
The thief is not an example of NT salvation, Heb 9:16,17.
Then neither is Nicodemus in John 3. So you can stop going on about John 3:5. And in fact you are forced to rule out everything the Lord Jesus said before he died.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Contrare. . .the record shows it was first presented as an example of conditions attached
to God's free gift of salvation.

Naaman is not an example of salvation, and cannot be applied to God's free gift of salvation.

No, I used Naaman to show an example of God's grace requiring a work to receive but Naaman doing that work in dipping did not earn him God's grace.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

9 But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, even Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for every man.

16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.


40 but Paul choose Silas, and went forth, being commended by the brethren to the grace of the Lord.


24 But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
What is so hard to understand about Jesus paying the FULL price for us?

Did Jesus only pay a partial price? Or was Jesus blood not enough?

Tell me where in the Bible ANYTHING does it say "Jesus only paid part you need to pay the rest."

You are saying that Jesus work wasn't good enough so now we have to pay the rest.

But where does the bible say Jesus paying the price for sin means man has to do nothing to be saved? That idea is being ASSUMED. If Jesus paying the price for sin is Jesus' free gift to man, does not Jesus have the right to put conditions upon His gift? Yes. Did Jesus put conditions upon His free gift? Yes, he put the conditions one must believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5 confess, Mt 10:32,33 and be baptized, Mk 16:16. Since Jesus already made the gift for free, there's nothing we can do to earn but just meet the conditions to receive it.