Daniel is out of chronological order.

[zone]

I do not now and never have taught a salvation outside of Jesus or that we should not try to lead every soul to the Lord we can.

"I had to conclude that it was possible for Jews during the Christian era to be saved without recognizing Yeshua as Messiah."

you're just a liar ellis.

 

[doulos]

let's see if i can follow the false doctrine.

so....

- the unbelieving jew is cut out of the good olive tree...and what happens to that branch?

- is it carried over to the wild, not good tree - or some other holding area tree....and grafted in with gentile sinners/unbelievers...until the natural branch continues not in unbelief?

- then he cuts the natural branch out of the wild tree (where it had to go - since there are only two trees - otherwise it would be dead wood, good only for burning)

- he carries it back over to the good tree, and grafts it back in again?

- why does he cut gentile believers out of their own tree if they are believers, and their tree is a good witness, growing believers?

- if the gentile tree is a good tree, and He needs two trees, why does he do all that grafting back and forth?

No one said the wild tree is a good tree just that some of the branches become believers.

Didn’t you say in post15 ( http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58545-whom-shoe-fits.html#post925959 ) of the “To Whom The Shoe Fits” you spent 3 months studying the view?

ps AoK.
i spent 3 months last year looking at the fine print.
i saw many of what i thought were errors.
i consulted an expert in Hebrew, and checked all sources.

Surely if you spent 3 months studying the view, even if you disagreed, and found error, you could demonstrate the error of that view with out continuously misrepresenting the view and what was said. Once again your words betrayed you and once again you have proven that discusssion with you is futile.
As you are led, as you are led!

 

[Therapon]

Over in the holy is a nation of Jews. That in itself is a remarkable miracle. Driven from their homeland and dispersed among the Gentile nations in 70 A.D., the Jews somehow remained a unified people, looking forward to their coming Messiah and their restoration to the land as promised to them by God. Throughout the Christian era those Jews were persecuted by so-called Christians, driven into ghettos, robbed, raped, tortured, the Spanish Inquisition with 70,000 murdered, the Nazi Holocaust with 6,000,000 more, the skins of some turned into lampshades. And that is the people with whom God made an everlasting covenant.

God told Daniel, “from the time regular sacrifices are abolished and the abomination that makes desolate set up there shall be 1290 days.” From the time regular sacrifices were abolished in Daniel’s time until the Islamic Dome of the Rock was built in 688 A.D., on the Temple Mount of God most holy, was was exactly 1290 Hebrew years, That is a historic fact!

Then Jesus told John, “And the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” The new nation of Israel was established in 1948-1260=688 A.D., another historic fact!

Jesus also told John, “and the court which is without the temple leave without, and measure it not; for it hath been given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.” The Dome of the Rock is in the quarter that Gentiles, 300 feet South of where the Temple of Solomon once stood. 42 months is 1278.34 days. Jerusalem was freed of Gentile domination in 1967 –1278.34=688 A.D., one more historic fact!

So so it is obvious that the physical seed of Abraham, the Jewish people, were still part of God’s plan for the Christian era!

Jesus said further, “The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks are seven churches.” Jesus also told John, “I will give unto my two witnesses . . . these are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.” Since candlesticks are churches in Revelation 1, they are also churches in Revelation 11 unless God changes the definition of candlesticks somewhere in between. He didn’t, so the two witnesses are two churches.

But who are the olive trees? You look for the closest contextual definition of olive trees in the New Testament and what do you find? “For if thou (the Gentile Church) wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree (the Jewish People); how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

OK, OK, I see it, the Two Witnesses are the Church and the Jewish people, but those millions of Jews whom the so-called church tortured and killed throughout the Christian era, why they’re going to hell because they didn’t accept Yeshua as their Messiah. Not according to these verses: “As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

Of course the Jews are enemies of the Gospel, the so-called Church did it to them! So rather than pompously declaring that God forgot His everlasting covenant with the physical seed of Abraham, we need to repent for what we have done to those precious Jews for whom our Savior died, who continued to follow the G-d of Torah and the writings, despite everything we have done to them.

God blinded the Jewish people to the Gospel, for our sake. He does take away the blindness from some, so it remains our duty to teach Jesus to them. But He does not take the blindness away from all. I do not now and never have taught a salvation outside of Jesus or that we should not try to lead every soul to the Lord we can. I must admit, though, that I’m sick of the distortions and misrepresentations of what I believe and have taught for 35 years.

ERROR CORRECTION: I use a voice recognition program for typing and don't always catch it's errors. In Paragraph 4, "the quarter that Gentiles" should read, "the court of the Gentiles."

 

[Abiding]

are you guys still at it?

 

[Therapon]

Surely if you spent 3 months studying the view, even if you disagreed, and found error, you could demonstrate the error of that view with out continuously misrepresenting the view and what was said. Once again your words betrayed you and once again you have proven that discusssion with you is futile. As you are led, as you are led!

Some folks consider Wikipedia to be God's gift to conservative theology and because they can cut and paste vast passages from it, consider themselves to also be God's gift to conservative theology. You have to be patient, brother. <grin>

 

[Therapon]

You use statements like that as almost some sort of moral cover, to escape scrutiny from some of the VERY concerning things you teach. If you can label the scrutiny as the fruits of you simply "standing on scripture", then you hope that gives you a perceived moral high ground. I mean after all, only people who stand on scripture get "hounded" and "attacked" right?

Sorry I didn’t address this in my earlier post, but I was focusing in on your central concern, the “heresy” that is now accepted by many evangelical churches in the country.

At the beginning of the 17th century, the astronomer Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that the moon was actually gray and it wasn’t smooth, it had mountains, plains and craters. Galileo was forced to appear before the Pope for his “heresy” where he was informed that the moon was a “type of Christ’s righteousness” therefore, it was lily white and none of what Galileo had seen with his own eyes was true . . . so recant or the church will burn you at the stake! Not being suicidal, Galileo recanted, but as he was leaving the audience, he was heard to mutter under his breath, “but the moon still has craters.”

I’m now 85, one foot in heaven and the other on rolling golfballs. I couldn’t care less about moral cover and the books I’ve written over the years have been scrutinized by theologians of every stripe. Why, I’ve even been denounced on radio and TV. But I’ve been dead Christ longer than most people on this forum have been alive so high ground? I'm willing to wallow in ground subterranean if that would help get the truth out. In spite of the disdain of of some, the momentous events in the holy land of 1948 and 1967 actually did open God's Word anew and we can now fully understand many passages of Scripture that were formerly a mystery to us. Our present moon of orthodoxy isn’t lily white anymore and it has "many craters."

 

[Therapon]

I must be getting too old for this, I left out a really important word and duplicated another. Below is the corrected copy . . .

Sorry I didn’t address this in my earlier post, but I was focusing in on your central concern, the “heresy” that is now accepted by many evangelical churches in the country.

At the beginning of the 17th century, the astronomer Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that the moon was actually gray and it wasn’t smooth, it had mountains, plains and craters. Galileo was forced to appear before the Pope for his “heresy” where he was informed that the moon was a “type of Christ’s righteousness” therefore, it was lily white and none of what Galileo had seen with his own eyes was true . . . so recant or the church will burn you at the stake! Not being suicidal, Galileo recanted, but as he was leaving the audience, he was heard to mutter under his breath, “but the moon still has craters.”

I’m now 85, one foot in heaven and the other on rolling golfballs. I couldn’t care less about moral cover and the books I’ve written over the years have been scrutinized by theologians of every stripe. Why, I’ve even been denounced on radio and TV. But I’ve been dead in Christ longer than most people on this forum have been alive so high ground? I'm willing to wallow in ground subterranean if that would help get the truth out.

In spite of the disdain of some, the momentous events in the holy land of 1948 and 1967 actually did open God's Word anew and we can now fully understand many passages of Scripture that were formerly a mystery to us. Our present moon of orthodoxy isn’t lily white anymore and it has "many craters."

 

[1still_waters]

At the beginning of the 17th century, the astronomer Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that the moon was actually gray and it wasn’t smooth, it had mountains, plains and craters. Galileo was forced to appear before the Pope for his “heresy” where he was informed that the moon was a “type of Christ’s righteousness” therefore, it was lily white and none of what Galileo had seen with his own eyes was true . . . so recant or the church will burn you at the stake! Not being suicidal, Galileo recanted, but as he was leaving the audience, he was heard to mutter under his breath, “but the moon still has craters.”

Well..Galileo was addressing the location of the moon and such.
You're saying things like...

I had to conclude that it was possible for Jews during the Christian era to be saved without recognizing Yeshua as Messiah. I now have a host of Biblical and anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion.

Getting the moon wrong will just make you look silly in the science books.
Saying things like the quote above, actually can lead people astray.

In spite of the disdain of some, the momentous events in the holy land of 1948 and 1967 actually did open God's Word anew and we can now fully understand many passages of Scripture that were formerly a mystery to us. Our present moon of orthodoxy isn’t lily white anymore and it has "many craters."

Theological novelty really isn't something to be praised.
You're saying for almost 1900 years there were parts of the Bible people couldn't understand?
But now because of you or people like you, you're bringing truth forward that 1000s of people with all their mental power put together couldn't figure out?

There is nothing new under the sun, except for the last 50 years when people like you and others brought forth this new novel teaching?

The whole idea that for 1900 years there were parts of the Bible we couldn't understand, well, indirectly that speaks badly of God. God gave us his word and he meant for it to be understood. Saying he couldn't get his point across for 1900 years makes him sound like a terrible communicator.

These kinda of things, like I keep saying are VERY concerning. And when people see theological novelty, they really need to perk their ears up and in most cases dismiss it.

 

[Abiding]

AIPAC member?

 

[zone]

I must be getting too old for this, I left out a really important word and duplicated another. Below is the corrected copy . . .

Sorry I didn’t address this in my earlier post, but I was focusing in on your central concern, the “heresy” that is now accepted by many evangelical churches in the country.

At the beginning of the 17th century, the astronomer Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that the moon was actually gray and it wasn’t smooth, it had mountains, plains and craters. Galileo was forced to appear before the Pope for his “heresy” where he was informed that the moon was a “type of Christ’s righteousness” therefore, it was lily white and none of what Galileo had seen with his own eyes was true . . . so recant or the church will burn you at the stake! Not being suicidal, Galileo recanted, but as he was leaving the audience, he was heard to mutter under his breath, “but the moon still has craters.”

I’m now 85, one foot in heaven and the other on rolling golfballs. I couldn’t care less about moral cover and the books I’ve written over the years have been scrutinized by theologians of every stripe. Why, I’ve even been denounced on radio and TV. But I’ve been dead in Christ longer than most people on this forum have been alive so high ground? I'm willing to wallow in ground subterranean if that would help get the truth out.

In spite of the disdain of some, the momentous events in the holy land of 1948 and 1967 actually did open God's Word anew and we can now fully understand many passages of Scripture that were formerly a mystery to us. Our present moon of orthodoxy isn’t lily white anymore and it has "many craters."

Galileo Was Wrong
Galileo Was Wrong < click

 

[zone]

Some folks consider Wikipedia to be God's gift to conservative theology and because they can cut and paste vast passages from it, consider themselves to also be God's gift to conservative theology. You have to be patient, brother. <grin>

wikipedia is more accurate than Ellis Skolfield's rubbish

 

[zone]

No one said the wild tree is a good tree just that some of the branches become believers.

Didn’t you say in post15 ( http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58545-whom-shoe-fits.html#post925959 ) of the “To Whom The Shoe Fits” you spent 3 months studying the view?



Surely if you spent 3 months studying the view, even if you disagreed, and found error, you could demonstrate the error of that view with out continuously misrepresenting the view and what was said. Once again your words betrayed you and once again you have proven that discusssion with you is futile.
As you are led, as you are led!

you guys are out in left field.
not christians.
you are deceivers.

May God be righteous and judge you now.
May He Glorify His Holy name against fools like you.

i pray He brings you all down before you can lead others astray.
perhaps you are vessels of wrath.
perhaps you are judgments on a disobedient and unfaithful church.

anyone who listens to you is surely unfaithful.

 

[zone]

I must be getting too old for this, I left out a really important word and duplicated another. Below is the corrected copy . . .

Sorry I didn’t address this in my earlier post, but I was focusing in on your central concern, the “heresy” that is now accepted by many evangelical churches in the country.

At the beginning of the 17th century, the astronomer Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that the moon was actually gray and it wasn’t smooth, it had mountains, plains and craters. Galileo was forced to appear before the Pope for his “heresy” where he was informed that the moon was a “type of Christ’s righteousness” therefore, it was lily white and none of what Galileo had seen with his own eyes was true . . . so recant or the church will burn you at the stake! Not being suicidal, Galileo recanted, but as he was leaving the audience, he was heard to mutter under his breath, “but the moon still has craters.”

I’m now 85, one foot in heaven and the other on rolling golfballs. I couldn’t care less about moral cover and the books I’ve written over the years have been scrutinized by theologians of every stripe. Why, I’ve even been denounced on radio and TV. But I’ve been dead in Christ longer than most people on this forum have been alive so high ground? I'm willing to wallow in ground subterranean if that would help get the truth out.

In spite of the disdain of some, the momentous events in the holy land of 1948 and 1967 actually did open God's Word anew and we can now fully understand many passages of Scripture that were formerly a mystery to us. Our present moon of orthodoxy isn’t lily white anymore and it has "many craters."

[video=youtube;l-1my_NSqrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-1my_NSqrA[/video]

 

[doulos]

you guys are out in left field.
not christians.
you are deceivers.

May God be righteous and judge you now.
May He Glorify His Holy name against fools like you.

i pray He brings you all down before you can lead others astray.
perhaps you are vessels of wrath.
perhaps you are judgments on a disobedient and unfaithful church.

anyone who listens to you is surely unfaithful.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[zone]

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

you are not my brother

 

[Abiding]

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire..............

.....................

 

[Therapon]

So the Jews say Jehovah and we say Jesus. Is it correct to say that Jehovah guided Jews to the promised Land, as Jesus guides Christians to the promised Land?

Of course.

 

[loveme1]

"I had to conclude that it was possible for Jews during the Christian era to be saved without recognizing Yeshua as Messiah."

you're just a liar ellis.

Is this written somewhere for us all to see?

 

[loveme1]

Ellis will you confirm or deny that you wrote that?

 

[1still_waters]

Ellis will you confirm or deny that you wrote that?

Here's a link.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...el-out-chronological-order-13.html#post962441

A Jew cannot reject what he has been sovereignly prevented from seeing, Romans 11:8 states: “according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day.” That is what I was trying to get across through Rabbi Isadore Zwern’s testimony. I spoke with that beloved brother about 20 years ago and he told me, “I have been dedicated to G-d since childhood. I was raised to be a rabbi and have been aware of the presence of the Kodesh Ruach (the Holy Spirit) all my life.” Now the Holy Spirit does not indwell the hearts of those who do not belong to G-d, so unless Rabbi Zwern was lying through his teeth, I had to conclude that it was possible for Jews during the Christian era to be saved without recognizing Yeshua as Messiah. I now have a host of Biblical and anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion.