Death...The Price of Sin...Paid?

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Yahshua

Yahshua

Senior Member
#81
Sep 22, 2013
2,743
708
113
#81
Butch5 said:
Hi Yash,

The early church held this view and they said that God put the curse on man and creation so that sin wouldn't be eternal. I think once Adam ate from the tree and learned evil all men would have to die. To answer your second question, yes, I believe it is necessary that the Christian turn from sin. I'm not saying one will be sinless but I believe there needs to be an effort to turn from sin.

Regarding your question about those in 1 Cor. 15. I think the answer to your question is in a general statement. I think it is a general statement that says, man must die. I believe there can be exceptions to the rule. Paul tells us that Enoch did not see death.

KJV Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5 KJV)
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Hmm. This is interesting. There *is* a precedent for there being exceptions to rules. I just commented in another thread how Christ - when accused of breaking the Sabbath by picking grain - explained that in the law priests are excepted from breaking the law of the Sabbath (and not because the rule is tossed out, but because other rules specifically instruct them to work on that day).

So if there's really an exception to this rule that "man must die", it has to be because another one of God's rule/law clearly supersedes it. I would see Enoch as this example too but there's disagreement as to whether or not he actually died. So I'm going to look in scripture for (I don't know) another example outside of Enoch (and Elijah); maybe a commandment or verse that may testify to this exception...if such exists.

Thanks Butch5
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#82
#82
Yahshua said:
Hi JesusistheChrist, Apologies. I actually didn't notice your post and then had to step out for the rest of the evening, but sure feel free to answer any questions posed to you. Thanks for asking! I figured we would quickly reach a point where we're just speculating more than anything. But I wanted to know what many of you think to help me to understand. I'll chime in if I have any questions (or reply to responses to me) but the thread is open.
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Thanks, Yahshua.

I will eventually (I've got some other threads that I'm involved in at the moment) address different posts and I'll do my best to keep my responses as related to the actual topic of this thread as I possibly can. IOW, I'd hate for you or others to have to wallow through post after post just to get to something which is actually on topic. Anyhow, thanks again.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#83
#83
Yahshua wrote: So when scripture says, "the wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23) or "the person who sins shall die" (Jer 31:30; Ezek 18:20) you believe it's saying "the wages of sin is *spiritual* death"?

Yes, I do believe that. I am very far from having all the answers, but I am reminded of Paul in this, to do what we are given while alive in the flesh, so that when our time comes we can relate to what Paul says:
2 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

I must say, I have learned so much reading brother Paul/Saul. You can see his progression, how he grows in grace. (grace=the gift of Almighty that enables you to live a holy and righteous life) It is always encouraging to read! What was his thorn in the flesh he asked to be delivered from? Perhaps is is not stated so that we may envision whatever thorn we have into it, and be comforted that His grace is sufficient for us.

My, how I can ramble..:)

Just wanted to say, there have been times in my life where the fear of death had me within it's grips, and it usually followed the death of a loved one. Even so, the fear of my death was not nearly as strong as the fear of loosing those I loved. Imagine a life with none around you whom you shared an intimate close friendship, as is the case sometimes with elderly when all their family is gone and friends as well. I suppose that the longer we live, the more we will desire to join them, and the very best part, to be absent from the body, is to be in the presence of our Maker. and that statement I believe, is explained in that we are not conscience of time, so as for all intents and purposes, it is as a blink of the eye.

Blessings to you brother, in the love of Messiah~k
 
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O

oldthennew

Guest
#84
#84
Yashshua said,
'Hmm. This is interesting. There *is* a precedent for there being exceptions to rules.'
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we admire Yahshua's attitude in the thread, it's a steadfastness in peace and calmness,
without guile - such tenor should be an example for us all.

Yahshua,
we don't believe that Christ was so much making an exception to the rule -
as He was expounding on what has always been there, specifically the
'weightier matters of the Law'.

the comparison is like when the apostle Paul is explaining physical circumcision
in comparison to Spiritual circumcision or as is commonly said, circumcision of the heart'.
He is explaining these principles on a Spiritual level.

the times that it mentions in Matt.12., about David eating the Holy bread -
the Priests working in the temple on the Sabbath or a man pulling his sheep out
of the ditch on the Sabbath, they all point to one principle, that it IS Lawful to
DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH'.

the example of the Priesthood as being the 'highest position' that one could have,
and comparing it to the example of pulling a sheep out of the ditch, this
encompasses the 'least to the greatest'.
Christ was expounding on the 'great principle' of Love your neighbor and Love God -
we are going to run into many situations in our lives where we have to say,
'what's more important here'?
hopefully we will understand the 'Spirit of the Law' out-weighs the 'letter of the Law' -
we have learned that the more we live in the Spirit, the more we come to comprehend
Spiritual things.

those of us who so relish immersing ourselves in The Word of God are drawn
into a Spiritual state of mind, something which we who love our Father cherish
and thank Him for continually.

may we all grow in grace and Godly character and the knowledge of our Saviour.
 
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