Deut 7:12-11:25 Moses speaks on OBEDIENCE to the 2nd generation

[Grandpa]

Who's talking about Judaism? Why even bring that up?
So, what does "love" look like practically? What does "trying to give to others what they've received from Christ" look like practically?

Any time someone talks about being obedient to the law or to Moses they are talking about Judaism, whether they realize it or not.

Love fills a need. Usually a need that a person can't fulfill themselves.

It has nothing to do with trying to follow the letter of what love is.

Its about following the spirit of what love is.

You can't give what you haven't first received.

Which doesn't have anything to do with obeying Moses. You don't receive a thing from trying to obey the law.

 

[LaurenTM]

OK then, let's throw the Law completely out of the question.

Is there any value in reading the New Testament and finding practical ways to love others? Or should we avoid that and instead just trust in the Spirit to reveal instructions to us?

Long question short: Does the New Testament provide practical instructions for how Christians are to live?

I may be naive, but I think Jesus had something to say about that

 

[LaurenTM]

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (KJV, MBM)

but you can't keep them

following that logic, you don't love God

you cannot take the law and tell God you prefer that over the death of His Son; yet, that is what you do every day

you are teaching false doctrine...

 

[FreeNChrist]

OK then, let's throw the Law completely out of the question.

Is there any value in reading the New Testament and finding practical ways to love others? Or should we avoid that and instead just trust in the Spirit to reveal instructions to us?

Long question short: Does the New Testament provide practical instructions for how Christians are to live?

It's all very practical. I suggest you do a study on imperatives and indicatives. There are literally thousands of imperatives in the NT, and they are all based in imperatives....not the other way around! Imperatives minus indicatives equal impossibilities.

 

[disciplemike]

but you can't keep them

following that logic, you don't love God

you cannot take the law and tell God you prefer that over the death of His Son; yet, that is what you do every day

you are teaching false doctrine...

No one said they prefer the law over the death of His Son.
Why do you lie?

 

[Grace777x70]

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (KJV, MBM)

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[disciplemike]

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

you are over complicating things.
you don't need a special lens to read plain literal statements in the text.


He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 2:4 (KJV, MBM)

No special lens needed. I think your lens are getting you off track brother.

 

[Grace777x70]

you are over complicating things.
you don't need a special lens to read plain literal statements in the text.


He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 2:4 (KJV, MBM)

No special lens needed. I think your lens are getting you off track brother.

If we don't interpret scripture by the revealed finished work of Christ - then we end up mixing up the covenants which is exactly what law-keepers do.

Is this scripture below true? It's in the Old Covenant. If it is = then we all are blotted out of God's book. The scripture is true but it is NOT the truth - Jesus is the truth and what He has done on the cross and resurrection trumps this scripture in the Law.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


And John says exactly what those commandments are in his letter that you quoted in 1 John 2:4.

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3:23. These are the New Covenant scriptures - in them all the law is fulfilled.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[disciplemike]

If we don't interpret scripture by the revealed finished work of Christ - then we end up mixing up the covenants which is exactly what law-keepers do.

Sir, do you understand that the covenant at Mt. Sinai was a marriage covenant?
Who does not want to partake in that?

 

[disciplemike]

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Slow down and read.
If you are calling the perfect Law of God "philosophy, empty deception", "tradition of men",
then you are making a critical mistake.

This teaching might help:
[video=youtube;pycPvPKNXeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pycPvPKNXeE[/video]

 

[Grace777x70]

Sir, do you understand that the covenant at Mt. Sinai was a marriage covenant?
Who does not want to partake in that?

Do you not know that the Old Covenant is now obsolete. This is why your law-keeping is anti-Christ in it's belief system. Why do you continually reject Christ?

Come to Christ disciplemike and live in the New Covenant. Jesus said My yoke is easy and My burden is light. Just believe in Him and what He has already done in His finished work for us. Stop being so lawless in denying Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Slow down and read.
If you are calling the perfect Law of God "philosophy, empty deception", "tradition of men",
then you are making a critical mistake.

Pay particular attention to the part that says " rather than according Christ". You continuously leave out Christ in your law-keeping.

No one is going to fall for this anti-Christ belief religion that you are trying to get Christians to go back to the Law and desert Christ. Gal. 1:6

 

[disciplemike]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

It is a mistake to say verse 8 is referring to God's commandments. It is not in any way, shape. or form.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is a mistake to say verse 8 is referring to God's commandments. It is not in any way, shape. or form.

What verse 8 is referring to is man's traditions and to the elementary principals of the world - which is the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of which the Law is a manifestation of that tree in man's life since the fall of Adam.

The Christian is dead to the Law. People that try to make Christians somehow alive to the Law again - is creating a tradition of man and thus are in fact denying the work of Christ in and for the believer.

 

[disciplemike]

What verse 8 is referring to is man's traditions and to the elementary principals of the world - which is the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of which the Law is a manifestation of that tree in man's life since the fall of Adam.

The Christian is dead to the Law. People that try to make Christians somehow alive to the Law again - is creating a tradition of man and thus are in fact denying the work of Christ in and for the believer.

Sir, this does not make sense.
When God says, "You shall have no other gods before Me",
why would you want to be "dead" to that?

You may want to be "dead" to the penalty for breaking that commandment.

Do you have a desire to put other gods before YHVH?
Of course you don't.
So why would you say you are "dead" to that commandment?
I want to obey that commandment.

 

[Grace777x70]

Sir, this does not make sense.
When God says, "You shall have no other gods before Me",
why would you want to be "dead" to that?

You may want to be "dead" to the penalty for breaking that commandment.

Do you have a desire to put other gods before YHVH?
Of course you don't.
So why would you say you are "dead" to that commandment?
I want to obey that commandment.

You are dead to the Law ( if you are a Christian ) SO THAT you could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. He is your God and Lord not the Law. You continually leave out Christ for the Law. This is why this belief system is anti-Christ. The Law is NOT your God - Jesus is.

If you want to stop being lawless then come to Christ and believe in what He has done at the cross and resurrection. Stop rejecting Christ for the Law. You are actually breaking the very first commandment by your lawlessness in rejecting the Father's commandments in the New Covenant to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for life and living. He is our life. (Col. 3:3)

Lawlessness is being disobedient to the faith. The faith is Christ and His finished work.

Romans 7:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God
.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[disciplemike]

Lawlessness is being disobedient to the faith.

no, being disobedient to the faith would be called "faithless" of "faithlessness".

Having no law is called "lawlessness".

you see how that works?

 

[Yonah]

too much twistianity on this thread for me...