Did Christ change God?
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1. First of all the title of your thread is very misleading. Since Christ is God, how can He "change" God, who is changeless? God does not change, but His dealing with men can and do change.
2. Secondly, you also refuse to accept THE FACT that the Old Covenant is obsolete, and the New Covenant is in force. Which means that you are making God a liar.
3. Thirdly, God's commands are still to be acted out but under the New Covenant and under the Law of Christ.
4. Moses anticipated the coming of Christ. Then he met with Jesus and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration. And the book of Hebrews contrasts Moses with Christ. But there is no comparison as we can see.
HEBREWS 3: CHRIST THE SON VS MOSES THE SERVANT
3 For this man [CHRIST JESUS] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a Son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
2. Secondly, you also refuse to accept THE FACT that the Old Covenant is obsolete, and the New Covenant is in force. Which means that you are making God a liar.
3. Thirdly, God's commands are still to be acted out but under the New Covenant and under the Law of Christ.
4. Moses anticipated the coming of Christ. Then he met with Jesus and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration. And the book of Hebrews contrasts Moses with Christ. But there is no comparison as we can see.
HEBREWS 3: CHRIST THE SON VS MOSES THE SERVANT
3 For this man [CHRIST JESUS] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but He that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a Son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
So you aren’t able to accept that then ? I thought the law was given by Moses ?
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17
how many scriptures are wrong when they say such plain things ? here’s another good plain one
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, ( Abraham’s promise for all
Nations )
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
Galatians 3:17 KJV
430 years after Abraham the law was added and why ? For what purpose ? How long would it last ? Who ordained it ?
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
Isn’t it pretty clear who gave the law , and when the law was added and why and who ordained it ? I guess Hebrews won’t make much sense
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17
how many scriptures are wrong when they say such plain things ? here’s another good plain one
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, ( Abraham’s promise for all
Nations )
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
Galatians 3:17 KJV
430 years after Abraham the law was added and why ? For what purpose ? How long would it last ? Who ordained it ?
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
Isn’t it pretty clear who gave the law , and when the law was added and why and who ordained it ? I guess Hebrews won’t make much sense
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a gentile ? Abraham the Hebrew ? Am I reading you right there ? I’ll have to ask for clarity on that one I’m open to scripture though for sure
here’s a good example of what was before the law and then Moses law for transgression
Before the law of Moses was given this was the law of marriage
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”
Genesis 2:24 KJV
Then Moses law which came to sinners with hard hearts ( under sin)
“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
Deuteronomy 24:1-2 KJV
this now is what Jesus taught ( back to remission of sins )
“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? ( back to the beginning )
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
( they ask why Moses said different )
They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
Matthew 19:3-9 KJV
just one example there to show the law wasn’t in the beginning because man wasn’t made sinners with hard hearts we were made in Gods image and didn’t need a law for sinners
here’s a good example of what was before the law and then Moses law for transgression
Before the law of Moses was given this was the law of marriage
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”
Genesis 2:24 KJV
Then Moses law which came to sinners with hard hearts ( under sin)
“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
Deuteronomy 24:1-2 KJV
this now is what Jesus taught ( back to remission of sins )
“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? ( back to the beginning )
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
( they ask why Moses said different )
They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
Matthew 19:3-9 KJV
just one example there to show the law wasn’t in the beginning because man wasn’t made sinners with hard hearts we were made in Gods image and didn’t need a law for sinners
From your post 63. "
Isn’t it pretty clear who gave the law , and when the law was added and why and who ordained it ? I guess Hebrews won’t make much sense."
When Abraham kept God's law, and Abraham was before Sinai, then God's laws preceded Moses.
This is the aforementioned, Law of the Patriarchs.
God's first command was in Eden into Adam. Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Gentile=Nation
It is by Abraham that Gentiles are able to come to Salvation in Messiah. Galatians 3:14 So that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Abraham observed the Torah, God's law, before it was given to Israel. Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments.
Genesis 15:6 And he (Abraham) believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
Galatians 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
The term Jew is derived from Jacob. Before Jacob there were no Jews.
Genesis 32:28 “No longer will your name be Jacob,” the man told him,“but Israel,because you have fought with God and with men and have prevailed.”
In scripture, any people not Hebrew,Israelite,Jew, as these terms make their appearances in scripture, were labeled Gentile.
Genesis 12:1-3 Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Isn’t it pretty clear who gave the law , and when the law was added and why and who ordained it ? I guess Hebrews won’t make much sense."
When Abraham kept God's law, and Abraham was before Sinai, then God's laws preceded Moses.
This is the aforementioned, Law of the Patriarchs.
God's first command was in Eden into Adam. Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Gentile=Nation
It is by Abraham that Gentiles are able to come to Salvation in Messiah. Galatians 3:14 So that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Abraham observed the Torah, God's law, before it was given to Israel. Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments.
Genesis 15:6 And he (Abraham) believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
Galatians 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
The term Jew is derived from Jacob. Before Jacob there were no Jews.
Genesis 32:28 “No longer will your name be Jacob,” the man told him,“but Israel,because you have fought with God and with men and have prevailed.”
In scripture, any people not Hebrew,Israelite,Jew, as these terms make their appearances in scripture, were labeled Gentile.
Genesis 12:1-3 Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
No. The term "Jew" is from Judah which made those of Judah to be called Judahites or "Yehudi" (in Hebrew) and in English "Jews". It was only after the Babylonian captivity (which primarily included the tribes of Judah and Benjamin) that non-Israelites began calling Israelites "Jews". However, even during the reign of Hezekiah, non-Israelites used the term "Jews".
In the Gospel of John, John is careful to distinguish between the true religion of Israel and the religion of "the Jews" (that of the scribes and Pharisees). And Paul is careful to say that he was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. The Hebrews were descended from Eber, who was a descendant of Noah and Shem, and an ancestor of Abraham. So Christ too was a Hebrew of the Hebrews.
In the Gospel of John, John is careful to distinguish between the true religion of Israel and the religion of "the Jews" (that of the scribes and Pharisees). And Paul is careful to say that he was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. The Hebrews were descended from Eber, who was a descendant of Noah and Shem, and an ancestor of Abraham. So Christ too was a Hebrew of the Hebrews.
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“God's first command was in Eden into Adam. Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
Yes that has nothing to do with Moses law though.
“Abraham observed the Torah, God's law, before it was given to Israel. Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments.”
the law of Moses is t Gods voice they wouldn’t hear it so they got Moses law
“Genesis 15:6 And he (Abraham) believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.”
that has nothing to do with the law ot was given 430 years after Abraham lived there was no law then , there was Gods word then like to adam , to Cain , to Noah , to Abraham those things are all
About hearing Gods word and believing in other words faith
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
Hebrews 11:7-8 KJV
that’s the gospel to hear what God said believe and follow what he said so like this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
to hear that and get baptized is an act of faith has zero to do with the law of Moses it has to do with Gods word jeering and believing so we can have faith
I showed you earlier the law is not of faith
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
I’m not sure where your argument is based but you seem to skip over the scriptures I’ve given you which sort of ends any chance of me doecussing ot with you
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17
I’m sort of a believer of what it says so
I’d have to say the law came through Moses to the children of Israel and was added because of thoer transgressions , was ordained of angels and given into
Moses hand
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
and it was 430 years after this promise of the gospel before the law when men hears Gods word d believed and had faith
“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
….And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
Galatians 3:8-9, 17 KJV
is also say to at the law was a curse for sin
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
Galatians 3:10 KJV
and it was temporary came after Abraham and lasted until Christ came preaching Gods word that we can believe and be saved like Abraham , Noah and the time of faith
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
that’s the difference in the law and faith faith is to hear Gods word and believe his instruction and promise and act because you believe what he said and the accompanying promise
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
that’s a word of faith , this other one isn’t
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10, 12 KJV
That’s not faith it’s not about hearing Gods word and believing it’s about seeing a book full of hundreds of ordinances and commands that aren’t about the same thkngs in the gospel not to be saved but for this purpose
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20
it’s not of faith can’t justify wasn’t from the beginning isn’t Gods word through Christ whos voice Abraham Isaac and Jacob heard and obeyed .
faith has to be hearing christs word and believing not an angel and Moses word but Christ the son of Gods word is what makes and keeps faith
Yes that has nothing to do with Moses law though.
“Abraham observed the Torah, God's law, before it was given to Israel. Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments.”
the law of Moses is t Gods voice they wouldn’t hear it so they got Moses law
“Genesis 15:6 And he (Abraham) believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.”
that has nothing to do with the law ot was given 430 years after Abraham lived there was no law then , there was Gods word then like to adam , to Cain , to Noah , to Abraham those things are all
About hearing Gods word and believing in other words faith
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
Hebrews 11:7-8 KJV
that’s the gospel to hear what God said believe and follow what he said so like this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
to hear that and get baptized is an act of faith has zero to do with the law of Moses it has to do with Gods word jeering and believing so we can have faith
I showed you earlier the law is not of faith
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
I’m not sure where your argument is based but you seem to skip over the scriptures I’ve given you which sort of ends any chance of me doecussing ot with you
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17
I’m sort of a believer of what it says so
I’d have to say the law came through Moses to the children of Israel and was added because of thoer transgressions , was ordained of angels and given into
Moses hand
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
and it was 430 years after this promise of the gospel before the law when men hears Gods word d believed and had faith
“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
….And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
Galatians 3:8-9, 17 KJV
is also say to at the law was a curse for sin
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
Galatians 3:10 KJV
and it was temporary came after Abraham and lasted until Christ came preaching Gods word that we can believe and be saved like Abraham , Noah and the time of faith
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
that’s the difference in the law and faith faith is to hear Gods word and believe his instruction and promise and act because you believe what he said and the accompanying promise
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
that’s a word of faith , this other one isn’t
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10, 12 KJV
That’s not faith it’s not about hearing Gods word and believing it’s about seeing a book full of hundreds of ordinances and commands that aren’t about the same thkngs in the gospel not to be saved but for this purpose
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20
it’s not of faith can’t justify wasn’t from the beginning isn’t Gods word through Christ whos voice Abraham Isaac and Jacob heard and obeyed .
faith has to be hearing christs word and believing not an angel and Moses word but Christ the son of Gods word is what makes and keeps faith
Abraham followed the law he had, but it was not the "torah". We simply do not know which laws he knew, because Scripture does not tell us. Claiming otherwise is making an argument from silence.
By the way, the term, "Hebrew" is derived from Eber, son of Shelah and father of Peleg, and the term "Jew" is derived from Judah, not Jacob. So, Abraham was a Hebrew but not a Jew.
By the way, the term, "Hebrew" is derived from Eber, son of Shelah and father of Peleg, and the term "Jew" is derived from Judah, not Jacob. So, Abraham was a Hebrew but not a Jew.
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That’s it exactly
Freedom from sin and it’s resulting curse of death
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
Romans 6:16-18, 20-22 KJV
just keep swimming as dori would say when searching for Nemo just keep swimming
Freedom from sin and it’s resulting curse of death
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
Romans 6:16-18, 20-22 KJV
just keep swimming as dori would say when searching for Nemo just keep swimming
1. The answer to the OP is not "it is misleading", the answer is that Christ IS God.
2. Your accusation "you refuse to accept" is out of line. You do not know me, you are not a mind reader unless you are into the occult.
3. I think you are stating a profound truth this time.
4. I agree, Christ is Christ our Savior, not Moses.
2. Your accusation "you refuse to accept" is out of line. You do not know me, you are not a mind reader unless you are into the occult.
3. I think you are stating a profound truth this time.
4. I agree, Christ is Christ our Savior, not Moses.
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