Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The word that I remembered was treacherous but I guess it was deceitful... kind of the same I suppose...

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The hearts definition of sin, then, isn't the final say on the matter.

1 John 3:20
For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Who wrote "Romans" again?
The same guy who concluded from the statement you quoted,

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight

The doers of the law are justified by it.
No one is justified by it.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Let's take a look at the context.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 KJV)

The we are Those who do not sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth. The Just that live by Faith. Those who do not draw back unto destruction.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Heb 10:26-31 KJV)
Um no..

The we are what it says, “those who believe unto the saving of the soul” IE, those who have TRUE FAITH

They are those who fall back to destruction of the soul. Ie those who NEVER CAME TO SAVING FAITH.


You think your good deeds will save you? You do not understand your situation. Because if you did. You would not even contemplate that that would be so.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The same guy who concluded from the statement you quoted,

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight

The doers of the law are justified by it.
No one is justified by it.
They can not fathom this fact, that their deeds re rejected by God when it comes to paying for sin.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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He also says within the same context,
"What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?"
(1Co 10:19-22 KJV)
Does not prove your point, But thanks for sharing.

ALL things are LAWFUL. But not all things are profitable.


Nothing can condemn me, (I am no longer under law) but not everything I do will be a profit to me.. many things can actually HARM ME.
 
May 1, 2019
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Let's take a look at the context.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 KJV)

The we are Those who do not sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth. The Just that live by Faith. Those who do not draw back unto destruction.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Heb 10:26-31 KJV)

Greetings lightbearer,

what we are seeing today is a reflection of;

Exo 20:18-21 KJV And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (19) And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (20) And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (21) And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.


Mt Siani was 50 days after Passover. It was the Pentecost of old, the time they were to receive the Holy Spirit in order to receive the Laws/Commandments of God upon their hearts. Instead they "stood afar off" "lest we die" Today the long awaited promise to write His Laws upon their hearts was to be fulfilled at Pentecost. We have an account of that in Acts. Each and every man must fact that "death" when the Holy Spirit overwrites our hearts with His Laws. wipes the hard drive in a manner of speaking.

So, those who resist the Torah are essentially resisting the Holy Spirit! They are those who "work without the Law" Matt 7:23
Unless they go through their Pentecost and stop resisting the renewing work of the Holy Spirit, perhaps the most terrifying part of the entire process, they are doomed never to know Jesus or The Heavenly Father!
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,127
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Greetings lightbearer,

what we are seeing today is a reflection of;

Exo 20:18-21 KJV And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (19) And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (20) And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (21) And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.


Mt Siani was 50 days after Passover. It was the Pentecost of old, the time they were to receive the Holy Spirit in order to receive the Laws/Commandments of God upon their hearts. Instead they "stood afar off" "lest we die" Today the long awaited promise to write His Laws upon their hearts was to be fulfilled at Pentecost. We have an account of that in Acts. Each and every man must fact that "death" when the Holy Spirit overwrites our hearts with His Laws. wipes the hard drive in a manner of speaking.

So, those who resist the Torah are essentially resisting the Holy Spirit! They are those who "work without the Law" Matt 7:23
Unless they go through their Pentecost and stop resisting the renewing work of the Holy Spirit, perhaps the most terrifying part of the entire process, they are doomed never to know Jesus or The Heavenly Father!
The law requires 100% obedience

One who breaks even one comand is found guilty of the law.

So according to this post. People do not have to follow the law. They can sin all they want, its ok..(just using reality and what you are saying and putting them together)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,198
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So, those who resist the Torah are essentially resisting the Holy Spirit! They are those who "work without the Law" Matt 7:23
Unless they go through their Pentecost and stop resisting the renewing work of the Holy Spirit, perhaps the most terrifying part of the entire process, they are doomed never to know Jesus or The Heavenly Father!
Are you saying that those who don't follow the Torah are not saved? Choose your words carefully.

What do you think being saved is? Do you think it includes the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the cleansing of the inner man... or not?
 
Everyone here loves Gods commands.

You would know that if you would get off your preconceived idea that everyone is out to get you, and what you think we believe!
I'm sure you do EG! I'm sure you do!
It's not "the love"(only), that's the issue!
It's the STRENGTH of love for Jesus/God, that's the issue! aka "Inheritance!"
And, it's the strength in your, heart, soul, spirit, and MIND!
This is the "crux of the biscut!"
"The Socinians held to a rationalistic approach to Scripture and to faith. This philosophical approach, especially in regard to biblical doctrine, declares that all religious matters must be fully reconcilable with human reason, and that theological matters pertaining to the nature of God cannot be beyond the finite understanding of the human mind."

One cannot understand Spiritual matters concerning "Inheritance" of the Kingdom of God, with "human/carnal" minds!
This is why Jesus taught in parables! But, His Disciples had understanding!
This is why you keep asking questions "we" can't answer!
Because you CAN'T, or WON'T understand!
For if you did? You WOULDN'T
be ASKING them! You would KNOW!
1 Peter 2

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable TO God BY Jesus Christ.

Ya see? One CANNOT become "faint of heart", when these "spiritual sacrifices", are presented to our Father in Heaven!
Unless, of course, this goes "against" your doctrine of "salvation by grace through Faith ALONE!"


One must'nt forget! That that which our Father adds? (which is 24/7, btw) Can be? And is, just as quickly "UN-Added."

This can be "especially" pointed out in the parable of the different types of ground.





 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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So the publican was justified by his HUMBLE appeal to God, verses the Pharisee, who BOASTED in his works and was not justified. Doesn't that seem a bit more congruous?
I'm not sure of your point, but the publican was justified not by works but by faith. His works were not good, in relation to the Pharisee, but he was humble and had faith in God's mercy. Whether the specific word "grace" is used, this account indicates salvation by grace through faith alone.
 
May 1, 2019
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Are you saying that those who don't follow the Torah are not saved? Choose your words carefully.

What do you think being saved is? Do you think it includes the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the cleansing of the inner man... or not?

No! Not at all! If they, through repentance have received the Blood of Christ for remittance of their sins they are forgiven!

You tell me based on Matthew 7:21-23 does salvation include; your words "the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the cleansing of the inner man... or not?" This is what each and every man MUST answer for themselves! I cannot answer it for them! Nor Will I!
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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The same guy who concluded from the statement you quoted,

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight

The doers of the law are justified by it.
No one is justified by it.
You are so very correct. Any chance you could name one person in this thread (or not in this thread) who believes that flesh could be? Not one? Me either. Because No one believes that

Everyone agrees, 100% that the flesh can not be justified by deeds of the law. (maybe somewhere else they do but not here)

Both sides also agree that Salvation is 100% a GIFT FROM GOD.

Not sure why they must be put in every 3rd post. Seems like you there is so much more to truth and knowledge and wisdom from God to be spreading, but that's just me. Seems weird to keep bringing up something no one believes.

I am just pointing out that a statement like that would never need to be made, if the law had indeed been taken away. I believe the law is as alive as ever, as opposed to dead.

It is to be followed, not worked for salvation. Just by this very statement "BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW", that pesky law just keeps itself as valid today as it was when first GOD given.

That is the only statement I was making. Thank you for pointing it out once again.

The Perfect Law and the sin it reveals in me, leads me to repent, to change my "inner man". To keep my "flesh" where it belongs, under control. I ask that the sacrifice done by the Lamb of God cover me in every "slip" event in my life. His work, His love, His sacrifice not only cleanses me daily, it set me free from the bondage to sin, and by sin death. I will not waste that gift. I need Him every day, in every way and without The LORD, I am nothing. I have come a long,long way, I have a long way to go, but with the Comforters help, and God for me, I can do all things, impossible things.

No, just going to point out how basic life is impossible without the law. And with the law sin is revealed. And when sin is revealed, repentance is necessary, and once forgiven, washed clean, a more like Christ walk I walk. And that should be every ones goal. Because I believe that Gods Promises remain to those who remain faithful to Him.


 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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I'm not sure of your point, but the publican was justified not by works but by faith. His works were not good, in relation to the Pharisee, but he was humble and had faith in God's mercy. Whether the specific word "grace" is used, this account indicates salvation by grace through faith alone.
No one is justified by works. Works can not justify. One had faith in God. One had faith in themselves.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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No! Not at all! If they, through repentance have received the Blood of Christ for remittance of their sins they are forgiven!

You tell me based on Matthew 7:21-23 does salvation include; your words "the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the cleansing of the inner man... or not?" This is what each and every man MUST answer for themselves! I cannot answer it for them! Nor Will I!
Why should I limit my understanding of the benefits of salvation to three verses? I'm sure you don't.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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No! Not at all! If they, through repentance have received the Blood of Christ for remittance of their sins they are forgiven!

You tell me based on Matthew 7:21-23 does salvation include; your words "the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the cleansing of the inner man... or not?" This is what each and every man MUST answer for themselves! I cannot answer it for them! Nor Will I!
and what is God's will?

to hear the Son.

Jesus said those who had HIs commands and keeps them, it is they who love Him.


now, of course, this was in John's Gospel, where Jesus made a big distinction between Him self and the Father, so He was NOT speaking of the Torah, he was speaking of the Words in Red, HIS words.

I do not know this, I know you will not say, but I suspect you are a Trinity denier.

most of you are, that is why you point to the Old Covenant , not the New.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You are so very correct. Any chance you could name one person in this thread (or not in this thread) who believes that flesh could be? Not one? Me either. Because No one believes that

Everyone agrees, 100% that the flesh can not be justified by deeds of the law. (maybe somewhere else they do but not here)

Both sides also agree that Salvation is 100% a GIFT FROM GOD.

Not sure why they must be put in every 3rd post. Seems like you there is so much more to truth and knowledge and wisdom from God to be spreading, but that's just me. Seems weird to keep bringing up something no one believes.

I am just pointing out that a statement like that would never need to be made, if the law had indeed been taken away. I believe the law is as alive as ever, as opposed to dead.

It is to be followed, not worked for salvation. Just by this very statement "BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW", that pesky law just keeps itself as valid today as it was when first GOD given.

That is the only statement I was making. Thank you for pointing it out once again.

The Perfect Law and the sin it reveals in me, leads me to repent, to change my "inner man". To keep my "flesh" where it belongs, under control. I ask that the sacrifice done by the Lamb of God cover me in every "slip" event in my life. His work, His love, His sacrifice not only cleanses me daily, it set me free from the bondage to sin, and by sin death. I will not waste that gift. I need Him every day, in every way and without The LORD, I am nothing. I have come a long,long way, I have a long way to go, but with the Comforters help, and God for me, I can do all things, impossible things.

No, just going to point out how basic life is impossible without the law. And with the law sin is revealed. And when sin is revealed, repentance is necessary, and once forgiven, washed clean, a more like Christ walk I walk. And that should be every ones goal. Because I believe that Gods Promises remain to those who remain faithful to Him.
Actually their are quite a few in here who believe this, even in this thread.

The deny it, They say it is not so. But when you look at their faith. Their words accuse them. They do not believe what they claim they do.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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and what is God's will?

to hear the Son.

Jesus said those who had HIs commands and keeps them, it is they who love Him.


now, of course, this was in John's Gospel, where Jesus made a big distinction between Him self and the Father, so He was NOT speaking of the Torah, he was speaking of the Words in Red, HIS words.

I do not know this, I know you will not say, but I suspect you are a Trinity denier.

most of you are, that is why you point to the Old Covenant , not the New.
Not sure he is a trinity denier.. But if he is,, Interesting
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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to hear the Son.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do thy will, O God.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God yea, thy law is within my heart.

What did the volume of the book contain? Cause that's what He brought. Which was but a shadow of what was to come, not what was to be done away with.