Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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May 1, 2019
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I believe one would have to explain why Paul tells us,the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable in the Book of Romans 11:29, if one would argue that the same apostle said we should fear and tremble the thought of losing God's irrevocable gift. If we must do that then it is not irrevocable. And I think that would then mean Paul was wrong about God's gift.
If I give a gift to someone and then take it back because I don't like how they braid their hair, was that ever a gift? Or was it a loan.
To forefit a gift given does not make the gift irrevocable! The offer still stands, but the deliberate rejection by the recipient leaves then no opportunity to return to the gift. A burning of bridges of sorts. So many people abuse the scriptures to benefit their own circumstances. We must recognize they are unalterable.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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I believe one would have to explain why Paul tells us,the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable in the Book of Romans 11:29, if one would argue that a different apostle said we should fear and tremble the thought of losing God's irrevocable gift. If we must do that then it is not irrevocable. And I think that would then mean Paul was wrong about God's gift.
If I give a gift to someone and then take it back because I don't like how they braid their hair, was that ever a gift? Or was it a loan.
This is where rightly dividing is so important. for examples Who is it written to? Israel the land or Israel the people. Is it written to the Gentiles or the Jews. Is it a past event giving example of a future event. Is it for edification or reproof. Look at the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah. If you look at who they were written to it will enlighten you to alot more about the how and when and to whom. I am writing this to random readers, I hope you don't mind. Opportunities don't come around very often. Always rest in the fact that if there is a conflict, it is us who makes it. It is never the Word. Never. (unless it is a translation, then the translation may be at fault) thank you.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I would agree. How can we know to repent if we don't know what repentance is? And how do we learn what repentance is save for the hearing of the word that tells us that.
Good question.

What IS repentance?

Is it coming to Christ and asking for forgiveness and help?

Or is it going to the law and finding all the things you are doing wrong?


Is it turning away from your own ways and toward Christ and His Way?

Or is it turning to the law and trying even harder next time?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Good question.

What IS repentance?

Is it coming to Christ and asking for forgiveness and help?

Or is it going to the law and finding all the things you are doing wrong?


Is it turning away from your own ways and toward Christ and His Way?

Or is it turning to the law and trying even harder next time?
To which law would you be referring?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
1,772
871
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This is where rightly dividing is so important. for examples Who is it written to? Israel the land or Israel the people. Is it written to the Gentiles or the Jews. Is it a past event giving example of a future event. Is it for edification or reproof. Look at the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah. If you look at who they were written to it will enlighten you to alot more about the how and when and to whom. I am writing this to random readers, I hope you don't mind. Opportunities don't come around very often. Always rest in the fact that if there is a conflict, it is us who makes it. It is never the Word. Never. (unless it is a translation, then the translation may be at fault) thank you.
We are all one in Christ Jesus. There is no Jew, Gentile, Greek, Hebrew, male, female.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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To forefit a gift given does not make the gift irrevocable! The offer still stands, but the deliberate rejection by the recipient leaves then no opportunity to return to the gift. A burning of bridges of sorts. So many people abuse the scriptures to benefit their own circumstances. We must recognize they are unalterable.
Would God that knows all things eternally not know who would be sincere in their repentance and thus receipt of his gift ? Would God mistake writing a name in the Lamb's Book of Life?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I believe one would have to explain why Paul tells us,the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable in the Book of Romans 11:29, if one would argue that the same apostle said we should fear and tremble the thought of losing God's irrevocable gift. If we must do that then it is not irrevocable. And I think that would then mean Paul was wrong about God's gift.
If I give a gift to someone and then take it back because I don't like how they braid their hair, was that ever a gift? Or was it a loan.
More than likely you misunderstand Paul.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Compare with this;

Jeremiah 33:8-9
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.


Does that seem like salvation is going to be lost because of the "fear and trembling"??

No, not really. Seems like a misunderstanding of what working out your salvation with fear and trembling is.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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More than likely you misunderstand Paul.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Compare with this;

Jeremiah 33:8-9
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.


Does that seem like salvation is going to be lost because of the "fear and trembling"??

No, not really. Seems like a misunderstanding of what working out your salvation with fear and trembling is.
Perhaps a good answer for Simple Gardner's post number 5,211.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Jul 14, 2019 #1,424
gb9 said: Sabbath was commanded to Israel as a time of rest and worship. very specific instructions were give to them, and any non-jews living among them were commanded to keep them , or face the death penalty ( as in the man caught gathering sticks )'
ok. now what?
MY REPLY
I REST EVERYDAY in the LORD. You can't hear me and it really is so sad. YOU keep saying I am under the law. I keep telling you, I am not under the law. I am under the New Covenant. The law that Moses was given by God and written in stone ..............has been abolished It has been replaced. Changed and replaced. NO ONE is under the law anymore. IT NO LONGER EXISTS. It was taken away. That is why it is called OLD. It had to be taken away for the new to come in. YOU are arguing over something that no longer exists no matter how much you want it to so you can argue about it. IT IS GONE. NO ONE is under it. NO ONE CAN BE. IT IS NO MORE. If you want it back you are going to go have to talk to God and get HIM to change His will. I know you wont hear this and it breaks my heart.
no, I do hear exactly what you are saying. I keep telling you this, if you get off your religious high horse, and stop thinking you know what others think, and believe anyone who disagrees with you is not understanding you .

read this very slowly- the reason I disagree with you is your theology is built on the false premise that the Law is divided into parts. it is NOT.

one last time- what God gave to Moses at Sinai was a COVENANT. covenant are not divided into parts. many times it is said by God " the Covenant I made....." covenant . singular.
'
and, I am still waiting on you to explain why there is one greek word for law, which has a minor meaning that can be plural, but is mostly singular in definition, if there is in fact multiple parts to the Law.

so, i ask you to actually adress these simple facts that prove your system wrong, instead of pivoting to something else.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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Would God that knows all things eternally not know who would be sincere in their repentance and thus receipt of his gift ? Would God mistake writing a name in the Lamb's Book of Life?
Do you know what God can not create? But one of the ways it was explained and helped make sense of it all was this, and I have no idea if it is true or not so bear that in mind. There is a parade. God is sitting in the first seat. He watches the whole parade before the beginning of it even gets to where we are sitting. Hope it helps.

The problem as I see it, is people understanding neither "who" nor "why" some would be written and others not. But because "some" are, everyone is claiming it is for everyone, like that makes it true. It doesn't. But that knowledge comes with lots of study, and we are told to study to show thyself approved,

one question How many people do you know have heard the Word of God?

NOT JUST SOME OF THE WORDS of the words of God, but the Word of God? The Word starts in Gen and ends in Rev. I'm just saying lots of stuff like this simple verse taught "mans way" which makes void the word of God.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
(WHO DO YOU THINK THE FOOLISH NATION IS?)
Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

You would think, hearing God refer to Israel as a disobedient and gainsaying people, that the foolish nation would NOT want to be 544 apeitheó disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity
483 antilegó to speak against, hence to contradict, oppose, decline to obey him
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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no, I do hear exactly what you are saying. I keep telling you this, if you get off your religious high horse, and stop thinking you know what others think, and believe anyone who disagrees with you is not understanding you .

read this very slowly- the reason I disagree with you is your theology is built on the false premise that the Law is divided into parts. it is NOT.

one last time- what God gave to Moses at Sinai was a COVENANT. covenant are not divided into parts. many times it is said by God " the Covenant I made....." covenant . singular.
'
and, I am still waiting on you to explain why there is one greek word for law, which has a minor meaning that can be plural, but is mostly singular in definition, if there is in fact multiple parts to the Law.

so, i ask you to actually adress these simple facts that prove your system wrong, instead of pivoting to something else.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS ONE OR PARTS. IT IS NO LONGER THE HUSBAND. JESUS IS.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then follow the N.T. instructions for proper behavior. clear enough?
WHY CAN'T YOU let go of it? You must know it ended. What ever it was about, what ever it was I keep trying to leave it behind, you keep dragging it back to me. I SAY YES LETS FOLLOW THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAT WOULD MEAN WE WOULD HAVE TO LET GO OF THE LAW OF MOSES. IT CAN'T COME WITH US TO THE NEW COVENANT. I HAVE NO DESIRE TO SACRIFICE ANIMALS. OR RUN A NATION. OR TELL PRIESTS WHAT TO DO. I DO NOT WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS. I NEVER HAVE.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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WHY CAN'T YOU let go of it? You must know it ended. What ever it was about, what ever it was I keep trying to leave it behind, you keep dragging it back to me. I SAY YES LETS FOLLOW THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAT WOULD MEAN WE WOULD HAVE TO LET GO OF THE LAW OF MOSES. IT CAN'T COME WITH US TO THE NEW COVENANT. I HAVE NO DESIRE TO SACRIFICE ANIMALS. OR RUN A NATION. OR TELL PRIESTS WHAT TO DO. I DO NOT WANT TO DO THOSE THINGS. I NEVER HAVE.
again, you continue to be tone deaf.

yes, what you just said was a part of the Law of Moses. but, also is the 10 Commands, the Passover, the Sacred Feasts, the dietary laws, it is ALL THE LAW OF MOSES, AS MANDATED BY THE COVENANT MADE AT SINAI.

one Covenant contained it all. if you enter that Covenant, then you are bound to keep them all.

and you still, as usual, did not address the points I made.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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again, you continue to be tone deaf.

yes, what you just said was a part of the Law of Moses. but, also is the 10 Commands, the Passover, the Sacred Feasts, the dietary laws, it is ALL THE LAW OF MOSES, AS MANDATED BY THE COVENANT MADE AT SINAI.

one Covenant contained it all. if you enter that Covenant, then you are bound to keep them all.

and you still, as usual, did not address the points I made.
You can keep saying it is me all you want. Jesus didn't care if it was one or not. Neither do I. In Matt 5 "BUT I SAY" and He says that 5 times. Right then and there that Covenant that died, has parts of it being resurrected one at a time. BY GOD who can and does anything He wants and I say "Good enough for me". As for answering your other questions if we can't come to terms on this, we can't come to terms on anything and we will both stand before God and one of us is going to be on the other side of the gulf. Especially now.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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You can keep saying it is me all you want. Jesus didn't care if it was one or not. Neither do I. In Matt 5 "BUT I SAY" and He says that 5 times. Right then and there that Covenant that died, has parts of it being resurrected one at a time. BY GOD who can and does anything He wants and I say "Good enough for me". As for answering your other questions if we can't come to terms on this, we can't come to terms on anything and we will both stand before God and one of us is going to be on the other side of the gulf. Especially now.
so, in other words, you can't refute the points I made, which I address all yours, so you stick your finger In your ears, and say " I do not want to talk about it.'

and i could care less about your hollow little threats. my salvation rests solely in trusting Christ, not of myself, a gift of God.

your group can spit on Paul's words, but i personally think we should believe in Jesus's hand picked man to bring the Gospel ( not the Torah) to the gentiles.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

PERPETUAL 5769 OLAM long duration, antiquity, futurity

everlasting covenant


Tables of stone now written on heart and mind the 10 commandments
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Christ became our Passover Passover is the High Holy Day of Christianity,

Dietary laws are a sin against our own bodies, not a sin against God. Did our bodies change, or did the scavengers? You choose.
Foods created to be received. Eat them, say thank you.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Christ became our Passover Passover is the High Holy Day of Christianity,

Dietary laws are a sin against our own bodies, not a sin against God. Did our bodies change, or did the scavengers? You choose.
Foods created to be received. Eat them, say thank you.
the same Paul said in 1st Timothy that " they forbid people to marry and to abstain from certain food which God created to be received with thanksgiving"

and in Romans 14 " the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking...'

so, no, Paul was not pushing jewish dietary laws on gentiles...
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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friends its 200 pages who can tell me if Jesus did ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of moses?

i dont believe Jesus said it.

but they did say it in acts the jerusalem church and st.paul said it. it also counts
Jesus said to follow him, and he broke Sabbath law.