Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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DeighAnn

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Jun 11, 2019
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That would refer to ourselves as well. When God's gifts are irrevocable that would settle the matter on both sides I think.

Romans 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved
as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.


Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Is there a place where we are told that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance"
when God is addressing other than "Israel's elect". Because here, that promise is to them alone.
 
May 1, 2019
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What is it you teach Bro?
Obedience to God or the contrary? Please clarify.
Thank you.

“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.” Luke 6:43-49
Many are not here to teach. Many are here to justify their rejection of the Law.

Jesus left us only one way to Love Him and only One way into fellowship with Him and The Father. Just as Adam walked with God in the Garden as long as he "obeyed" and Just as Enoch walked with God so God took Him, and Just as Abraham;

Gen 26:5 KJV Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Before many claim the commandments even existed by the way, God called Abraham a friend!

So it is the eternal way to relationship with Yahshua and the Heavenly Father! You can note people who are not in relationship with God by the rudeness, accusatory nature, etc, etc. You don't even have to look for it. But there is nothing we can do to justify their choices. They must stand in them alone, just as we must;

Rom 14:4 NIV Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
 

DeighAnn

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Jun 11, 2019
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nothing strange about it. we Christians are right and you judeaizers are wrong.

you imply that a truly saved person will be obeying the Law of Moses ( there is only one, it is NOT DIVDIED).''
so, I have brought up the N.T. instructions on how we are to conduct ourselves, you do not care. you keep pointing back to the Old Testament Law.

so, it is simple . trust Christ, and then follow the N.T. instructions that Paul and John and Peter and John laid out.

like this- John said in his first letter that we are to obey the Commands. then He explained that the Commands are to believe in the name of Son, and love one another. which echoes Jesus words of believe in Me and a New Command I give you- love one another.....

so, no Sabbath or Torah needed to keep the Commands.

see how that works?
IF THAT WERE TRUE YOU WOULD BE LISTING THAT POST EVERYWHERE YOU COULD. I HAVE ASKED YOU REPEATEDLY TO PRODUCE ANYTHING, BUT ACCUSATIONS. YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING PROVE IT.
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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friends its 200 pages who can tell me if Jesus did ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of moses?

i dont believe Jesus said it.

but they did say it in acts the jerusalem church and st.paul said it. it also counts
 
May 1, 2019
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IF THAT WERE TRUE YOU WOULD BE LISTING THAT POST EVERYWHERE YOU COULD. I HAVE ASKED YOU REPEATEDLY TO PRODUCE ANYTHING, BUT ACCUSATIONS. YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING PROVE IT.

Hey DeighAnn,

Have you ever heard the title "accuser of the Brethren"? Do you know who this refers to?

SG
 

wokinluv

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Aug 17, 2019
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have you judeaizers ever read the N.T.? i mean, there are lots and lots of instructions for the Christ follower to keep.

of course, no Sabbath. that is why you judeaizers reject the New in favor of the Old...
What is it you teach Bro?
Obedience to God or the contrary? Please clarify.
Thank you.
 
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Rev 12:10 NIV Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
 

DeighAnn

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Jun 11, 2019
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Jul 11, 2019 POST 1184
Grandpa said:

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

MY REPLY
You said it yourself
"Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart" I am good. What you teach and preach after this is up to you.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,194
Is there ANYONE who is seeking to be JUSTIFIED or MADE RIGHTEOUS or FIND THEIR SALVATION THROUGH THE LAW?

NO? Then why don't we shelve ANYTHING that has to do with that.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,206
gb9 said:

no need to. we can see right now.
if Law/Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with salvation through Christ, then one does not have to keep the jewish Sabbath to be saved, right??
MY REPLY
Whose post? And you see this post as "trying to find eternal life through the law"?
Jul 14, 2019 #1,387
gb9 said:

what e g said was true. you people attach keeping the Law of Moses along with the jewish Sabbath as part of salvation through faith in Christ, and it is not.
MY REPLY
Please tell me where I have ever stated either keeping the law of Moses or the Jewish Sabbath have anything to do with salvation. As a matter of fact I have consistently stated that keeping the law has Nothing to do with salvation or righteousness or being justified or getting favored treatment or anything "extra". I am a part of the "YOU PEOPLE". As a matter of fact I would appreciate you point out a single post from anyone stating that salvation can be got "through the law" because I missed it.

Jul 14, 2019 #1,400
gb9 said:
i asked you a couple of days ago if one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved, or not.
you never answered . Friday at 12:14 PM
#1,271
gb9 said:
me also. but, that does not answer the question. Shabbat or not? requirement or not?
Click to expand...
MY REPLY
I believe that my rest in Christ answers that question. I believe my answer lies with in the Spirit of the Law. It does for me. I hope you can respect that. Are you looking to find out if I believe it is within the letter of the law? Do you? Is it a requirement for you or not?
This was my answer then, as this is my answer now. So you see I DID ANSWER.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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Jul 14, 2019 #1,424
gb9 said: Sabbath was commanded to Israel as a time of rest and worship. very specific instructions were give to them, and any non-jews living among them were commanded to keep them , or face the death penalty ( as in the man caught gathering sticks )'
ok. now what?
MY REPLY
I REST EVERYDAY in the LORD. You can't hear me and it really is so sad. YOU keep saying I am under the law. I keep telling you, I am not under the law. I am under the New Covenant. The law that Moses was given by God and written in stone ..............has been abolished It has been replaced. Changed and replaced. NO ONE is under the law anymore. IT NO LONGER EXISTS. It was taken away. That is why it is called OLD. It had to be taken away for the new to come in. YOU are arguing over something that no longer exists no matter how much you want it to so you can argue about it. IT IS GONE. NO ONE is under it. NO ONE CAN BE. IT IS NO MORE. If you want it back you are going to go have to talk to God and get HIM to change His will. I know you wont hear this and it breaks my heart.
 
May 1, 2019
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Jul 11, 2019 POST 1184
Grandpa said:

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

MY REPLY
You said it yourself
"Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart" I am good. What you teach and preach after this is up to you.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,194
Is there ANYONE who is seeking to be JUSTIFIED or MADE RIGHTEOUS or FIND THEIR SALVATION THROUGH THE LAW?

NO? Then why don't we shelve ANYTHING that has to do with that.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,206
gb9 said:

no need to. we can see right now.
if Law/Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with salvation through Christ, then one does not have to keep the jewish Sabbath to be saved, right??
MY REPLY
Whose post? And you see this post as "trying to find eternal life through the law"?
Jul 14, 2019 #1,387
gb9 said:

what e g said was true. you people attach keeping the Law of Moses along with the jewish Sabbath as part of salvation through faith in Christ, and it is not.
MY REPLY
Please tell me where I have ever stated either keeping the law of Moses or the Jewish Sabbath have anything to do with salvation. As a matter of fact I have consistently stated that keeping the law has Nothing to do with salvation or righteousness or being justified or getting favored treatment or anything "extra". I am a part of the "YOU PEOPLE". As a matter of fact I would appreciate you point out a single post from anyone stating that salvation can be got "through the law" because I missed it.

Jul 14, 2019 #1,400
gb9 said:
i asked you a couple of days ago if one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved, or not.
you never answered . Friday at 12:14 PM
#1,271
gb9 said:
me also. but, that does not answer the question. Shabbat or not? requirement or not?
Click to expand...
MY REPLY
I believe that my rest in Christ answers that question. I believe my answer lies with in the Spirit of the Law. It does for me. I hope you can respect that. Are you looking to find out if I believe it is within the letter of the law? Do you? Is it a requirement for you or not?
This was my answer then, as this is my answer now. So you see I DID ANSWER.

Thank You,

I have seen only one arch type in the scriptures that tries dissuade any consideration of Gods Laws.

You have clearly repelled their accusations, but if you continue to receive accusations there is something else they are after! I think we both know what that is.

This is a discussion forum. Not an indoctrination forum. Persistant accusatory language should probably be reported. It is a form of harassment.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Romans 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Is there a place where we are told that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance"
when God is addressing other than "Israel's elect". Because here, that promise is to them alone.
Repentance is what starts the entire process of salvation off isn't it?
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


https://www.openbible.info/topics/irrevocable
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Slippery slope,

To disregard the potential for catastrophic loss as discussed in Hebrews 6:4-6 and to prolong a lapse into reviving the carnal man and supressing the gift of Grace, the New Creation, could be an eternal loss.

To disregard the admonition of Peter;
Php 2:12-15 NIV Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, (13) for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. (14) Do everything without complaining or arguing, (15) so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe

If it is true and a man thinks there is room to dabble in sin He may be lost.

To ignore the knowledge given in Hebrews 6:4-6 invites foolishness! What if any harm is there in remaining eternally vigilant! Is it too proactive? Does it take away the Grace of God and the Holy Spirits gift of a heart to Do His will? NO! The only thing that is lost in negating Hebrews 6:4-6 is the free weekend "Sin pass" that so many wish to reserve room for while they espouse the merits of Gods Grace! Could people who espouse this doctrine have had it and lost it? Could they have never received it? Dunno!

I am no stranger to the notion that a life of continual obedience to the will of God is a life without sin! At Sinai the Israelite's "stood afar off" as the commandments were given to Moses, Why, because to hear them they (the old man that loved sin) would DIE! The sinful nature would be put down! They essentially Kept the New Creation at a distance;

Exo 20:18-21 NIV When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance (19) and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." (20) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning." (21) The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.

They were facing their Pentecost and refused the Spirit of God that would "keep you from sinning"! But the reality of the "Old Man" abnegating the throne and allowing the New Creation to put the old man down meant crisply that the sins they relished and took pleasure in would be terminated! Sobering reality! Remember Israel had already agreed in Ex Ch 19 to the conditions of the contract/covenant, but they reneged on the Hearing the voice of God that would stop them from sinning! That was a step too far! When men accept the gift of justification do they not accept the Lordship of Christ over their lives? Is that not one of the terms of the New Covenant? Is not the receiving the Holy Spirit and hence a new heart that will keep them from sinning part of that contract/covenant? If so them where is the problem with validating the meaning of Hebrews 6:4-6 in it's full strength?
I believe one would have to explain why Paul tells us,the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable in the Book of Romans 11:29, if one would argue that the same apostle said we should fear and tremble the thought of losing God's irrevocable gift. If we must do that then it is not irrevocable. And I think that would then mean Paul was wrong about God's gift.
If I give a gift to someone and then take it back because I don't like how they braid their hair, was that ever a gift? Or was it a loan.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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friends its 200 pages who can tell me if Jesus did ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of moses?

i dont believe Jesus said it.

but they did say it in acts the jerusalem church and st.paul said it. it also counts
Matthew 11:28-29
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


The Lord says when you come to Him He will give you rest from your work at the law.

He says it in parable form as most of His teachings are before His Crucifixion.


Then Peter and Paul expound on the teachings of Christ in more plain and direct ways trying to show the simplicity of the gospel.

John 16:12-14
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
 

DeighAnn

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Jun 11, 2019
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Repentance is what starts the entire process of salvation off isn't it?
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


https://www.openbible.info/topics/irrevocable
I agree in a way but until you have faith and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word, you don't really know what to repent for. But Yes, Repentance is what starts of the entire process of salvation also. Kinda weird isn't it.
 
May 1, 2019
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Repentance is what starts the entire process of salvation off isn't it?
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


https://www.openbible.info/topics/irrevocable

An amazing Gift! Actually starts as a calling from the Father. Starts with "Godly Sorrow" The righteousness of the Law illuminating our unrighteousness. This, with a gift of a measure of faith produces Godly Sorrow! This Godly Sorrow another gift, leads to repentance, yet another gift! Which then leads us to find forgivenss. Repentance does not earn forgiveness! That is yet another gift!

SG
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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An amazing Gift! Actually starts as a calling from the Father. Starts with "Godly Sorrow" The righteousness of the Law illuminating our unrighteousness. This, with a gift of a measure of faith produces Godly Sorrow! This Godly Sorrow another gift, leads to repentance, yet another gift! Which then leads us to find forgivenss. Repentance does not earn forgiveness! That is yet another gift!

SG
OK
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Hey DeighAnn,

Have you ever heard the title "accuser of the Brethren"? Do you know who this refers to?

SG
Do you mean accusing Christians of lawlessness?

I'm sure it must happen if you preach Christ correctly.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That seems pretty simple.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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I agree in a way but until you have faith and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word, you don't really know what to repent for. But Yes, Repentance is what starts of the entire process of salvation also. Kinda weird isn't it.
I would agree. How can we know to repent if we don't know what repentance is? And how do we learn what repentance is save for the hearing of the word that tells us that.