Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
"..for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God."

Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” John 5:17

There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. 1 Corinthians 12:6

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, Colossians 3:23

I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.
Ephesians 3:7

...and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, Ephesians 1:15-23


So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:7-10
1 John 1: 8 if we say we HAVE NO SIN, we DECIEVE OURSELVES. And there is no truth in us.

I have no desire to be deceived, or deceive myself. So I look to the law of love and the law of Christ as a guideline and power to do the best I can.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You can tell I just woke up.. lol
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
The scribes and Pharisees were descendants of Edomites who remained in the land and grew in power after Israel was taken into Babylon captivity.


A very abridged version of history:

[Genesis 36] - While Esau is a son of Abraham through Isaac, He rejected his birthright while also marrying restricted women of other nations, spoiling his seed. Recall that Esau/Edom HATES Jacob/Israel because of the stolen birthright that they claim as rightfully theirs. Also remember that Yah says "Jacob I love, Esau I Hate."

[2 Samuel 8:13-14] - When David conquered the Edomites they became the servants of Israel.

[1 Kings 11:14] - When Solomon began sinning, Yah allowed the Edomites to rise in power and rival him.

[Obadiah 1] - Edom conspired with Israel's enemies and then did nothing when Israel was captured and taken away.

[Psalm:137:7] - Edom laid claim of Jerusalem when Israel was taken away. And as former servants of the kingdom, they retained all the knowledge of the temple service and the scriptures...so when Judah was allowed to return they relied on Edomite "Judeans".

[Intertestimental history] - These "Edomite" Judeans formed the Hasmonean Priestly dynasty after the Maccabean revolt. The Pharisees and scribes grew as sects out of this dynasty's sages. They maintained that there was given an "Oral Law" (i.e. laws that weren't written down with The Written Torah). So these Edomite priests taught the people a mix of The Written Torah and Oral Law (Takanot & Ma'asim).

This is why Christ says "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. A little leaven leavens the whole lump." They mixed truth with error.

It is the "Oral Law" that was considered the "tradition of the men" that Christ said, "made the commandments of God of none effect".
It is the "Oral Law" that was codified into the Talmud, which became the basis for Judaism.

Fast-forward to the time of Christ, and the gospels detail that Herod's "royal" family were also Idumeans (Edomites), and history records that they are also Hasmoneans.

----

None of the groups that were in power in Judea at the time of Christ were actually true Israelites.

"If Abraham was your father, you would do what he did...your father is the devil."

Greetings Y,

Excellent summary!

They also "tipped their hand" when they retorted to Yahshau;

Joh 8:33 NIV They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

They didn't claim to be descendants of "Jacob" and a descendant of Israel could not claim to; "have never been slaves of anyone"

also;

Joh 8:41 NIV You are doing the things your own father does." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

Since Esau married "outside" the carefully guarded family lineage from which Jacob would come by marrying Canaanite wives and an Ishmaelite wife they were notably sensitive to any conversation that pointed to this.

This conversation may have a bearing on Yahshua's conversation with Nicodemus too.

SG
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Lightskin said:
Abiders in the law don’t abide perfectly thus the abiding is moot. Exhibit A is the lack of love displayed all too often from law abiders throughout various posts.

How about you respond to what Lightskin said which was, "Abiders in the law don’t abide perfectly thus the abiding is moot."

As it is impossible to keep the law perfectly, all law abiders are condemned. It is so sad you cannot see that.
James 5
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Peter 4
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Gee! I wonder what sins "love" covers?
COULDN'T be sins of NOT keeping the law, COULD IT!? Or? COULD it?
You'll never know, if you keep "justifying yourself/ves" in the "perfect law of love" doctrine. Will you?
Whereas, the law/s that were once "flesh oriented", are now "spiritually oriented."

You should also be concerned by what Jesus meant when He said: "I'll raise you up in the last day."
The "last" day before the "Great White Throne Judgement?"
The "last" day of this current earth/heaven age?
Or? Is this your "habitual habitation in love?"
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
It's "not my place" to answer this question for you. Only you can do that. But, not to me! As it seems many may want, or wish to think! But, to He who sent Our High Priest, and Kinsman Redeemer!
Yet, I can "see" by your responses, that this is what you see, concerning those who seek, and do seek, in finding out what/which sins love "doesn't" hide, or cover.
Where, you may find "along the way", that is impossible for you to commit the "unforgivable sin!"
1 Peter 4
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:


And you have NO "idea", what this means:
Revelation 20

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jul 11, 2019 POST 1184
Grandpa said:

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

MY REPLY
You said it yourself
"Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart" I am good. What you teach and preach after this is up to you.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,194
Is there ANYONE who is seeking to be JUSTIFIED or MADE RIGHTEOUS or FIND THEIR SALVATION THROUGH THE LAW?

NO? Then why don't we shelve ANYTHING that has to do with that.


Jul 11, 2019 #1,206
gb9 said:

no need to. we can see right now.
if Law/Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with salvation through Christ, then one does not have to keep the jewish Sabbath to be saved, right??
MY REPLY
Whose post? And you see this post as "trying to find eternal life through the law"?
Jul 14, 2019 #1,387
gb9 said:

what e g said was true. you people attach keeping the Law of Moses along with the jewish Sabbath as part of salvation through faith in Christ, and it is not.
MY REPLY
Please tell me where I have ever stated either keeping the law of Moses or the Jewish Sabbath have anything to do with salvation. As a matter of fact I have consistently stated that keeping the law has Nothing to do with salvation or righteousness or being justified or getting favored treatment or anything "extra". I am a part of the "YOU PEOPLE". As a matter of fact I would appreciate you point out a single post from anyone stating that salvation can be got "through the law" because I missed it.

Jul 14, 2019 #1,400
gb9 said:
i asked you a couple of days ago if one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved, or not.
you never answered . Friday at 12:14 PM
#1,271
gb9 said:
me also. but, that does not answer the question. Shabbat or not? requirement or not?
Click to expand...
MY REPLY
I believe that my rest in Christ answers that question. I believe my answer lies with in the Spirit of the Law. It does for me. I hope you can respect that. Are you looking to find out if I believe it is within the letter of the law? Do you? Is it a requirement for you or not?
This was my answer then, as this is my answer now. So you see I DID ANSWER.
I've said it before, and, I'll say it again.
These people are not seeking "eternal" salvation, as they are, as yet, unable in the discerning that which is "eternal", form that, which is "everlasting!"
Because this is what the doctrine/s of "Perfect Law of Love", are!
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Good Morning NayborBear,

Would you help me to get a clearer understanding of the difference between "eternal" and "everlasting"?

Thanks

SG
 
Aug 17, 2019
226
167
43
Did I obey my parents perfetly? No, Do I obey the laws of my state perfectly? I am quite sre I do not (the state speed limit is one it does not take uch to break. If the speed limit is 55, going 56 is breaking the law) Do I obey my faither perfectly? No. And if I said I did, you should call me a liar and decieved. Because thats what Jhn said I would be. Thus according to Gods standard. I have failed to keep the law.

Now. Do I desire to live a righteous life? Yes.

But history and scriptur eproves, we do nto do it by following ten commands.. So why would you wish to try to find righteousness that way?
Thank you for answering my questions, i appreciate
your honesty.

Didn't Jesus say that with God nothing is impossible?

Would you refuse to obey the 10 commandments if God is in you. If it is God who works in you, would you tell God that His 10 commandments is undesirable to follow.

Aren't we as servants expected to obey our master without complaining but in submission and humility?
How can we say that we love God and confess that Jesus is our Lord while rejecting the 10 commandments which is clearly God's words spoken as commands. Rejecting His laws and commandments is rejecting His words, right?

for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. Philippians 2:13-16

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:48-50

Without law, there is chaos, disorder and lawlessness...no peace.

Walk in Love and God bless.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Thank you for answering my questions, i appreciate
your honesty.

Didn't Jesus say that with God nothing is impossible?

Would you refuse to obey the 10 commandments if God is in you. If it is God who works in you, would you tell God that His 10 commandments is undesirable to follow.
who is their right mind would say this

In the same token. As John said, WHo in their right mind would say they have no sin?

And your right with God all things are possible. But John said clearly, if we say we are without sin we are deceived. So coming to the conclusion you can go 24 hours and not once break one of Gods commands I would see is pretty foolish. Should we not instead look to who I can love, Who I can serve. And what God has in store for me today instead of worrying about what sin I was going to commit? God will reveal that sin to us. Lets keep focused forward. Not on self.

Aren't we as servants expected to obey our master without complaining but in submission and humility?
How can we say that we love God and confess that Jesus is our Lord while rejecting the 10 commandments which is clearly God's words spoken as commands. Rejecting His laws and commandments is rejecting His words, right?

for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. Philippians 2:13-16

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:48-50

Without law, there is chaos, disorder and lawlessness...no peace.

Walk in Love and God bless.
Who is rejecting the ten commands?

You must be talking to someone else.

It is one thing to reject. It is another to interpret properly and not think I am better than I really am
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Good Morning NayborBear,

Would you help me to get a clearer understanding of the difference between "eternal" and "everlasting"?

Thanks

SG
Eternal - Without end - forever, ever lasting
Everlasting - forever. Without end eternal

They are two ways to say the same thing
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
no, I do hear exactly what you are saying. I keep telling you this, if you get off your religious high horse, and stop thinking you know what others think, and believe anyone who disagrees with you is not understanding you .

read this very slowly- the reason I disagree with you is your theology is built on the false premise that the Law is divided into parts. it is NOT.

one last time- what God gave to Moses at Sinai was a COVENANT. covenant are not divided into parts. many times it is said by God " the Covenant I made....." covenant . singular.
'
and, I am still waiting on you to explain why there is one greek word for law, which has a minor meaning that can be plural, but is mostly singular in definition, if there is in fact multiple parts to the Law.

so, i ask you to actually adress these simple facts that prove your system wrong, instead of pivoting to something else.
How convenient, it must be for you, in deliberately overlooking this:

Ezekiel 20

24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.


Without discernment? You'll never be able to distinguish the difference/s!
And, it WILL be seen as ONE LAW to you! :cry:
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
so, in other words, you can't refute the points I made, which I address all yours, so you stick your finger In your ears, and say " I do not want to talk about it.'

and i could care less about your hollow little threats. my salvation rests solely in trusting Christ, not of myself, a gift of God.

your group can spit on Paul's words, but i personally think we should believe in Jesus's hand picked man to bring the Gospel ( not the Torah) to the gentiles.
I don't "spit" on Paul's teachings! At all!
I do, however, SPIT on your IGNORANCE, to Paul's teachings!
And how LITTLE of his "gospel" you wish to accept!
And STILL fancy yourselves being saved ETERNALLY?
If, it weren't so SAD?
It would be SO EXTREMELY LAUGHABLE!
YOU having "barely 1 grain of sand in the salvation bucket?"
Running, around telling everyone and their brother it's FULL?
LAUGHABLE! EXTREMELY LAUGHABLE!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,363
12,153
113
How convenient, it must be for you, in deliberately overlooking this:

Ezekiel 20

24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.


Without discernment? You'll never be able to distinguish the difference/s!
And, it WILL be seen as ONE LAW to you! :cry:
Having their children pass through the fire is child sacrifice to the detestable god Molech, a bronze bull idol, heated red hot, in which infants were placed.

God never told them to do this, nor did such an abomination ever even enter His mind.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,363
12,153
113
Without discernment? You'll never be able to distinguish the difference/s!
And, it WILL be seen as ONE LAW to you! :cry:
That is the way James sees it - break one part, guilty of all.
That is the way Paul sees it - accept circumcision, liable to the whole law.
That is the way Christ sees it - not one jot or tittle removed.

Do you think differently? Why?
Because of Ezekiel 20?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,547
3,182
113
It says there not to go beyond what is written. You have said that the 10 commandments is not God's law so I dare to disagree.

Jesus told His disciples to teach people to obey everything He has commanded them and in the presence of His disciples He commanded the rich young man to obey the commandments referring to the 10 which according to Romans 13:8-14 is fulfilled through LOVE.

This is the message we have heard from the beginning. (1 John 1:5, 2:7, 3:11)

For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Hebrews 4:2

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:16-26

It is clear that if God is with us, nothing is impossible.

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Word, the law, the LOVE according to scriptures will be in our(Christians)
hearts. They all agree with each other...in unity. So if your heart tells you not to obey the law, someone else must be there.

Walk in Love and GOD bless.
Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would be disobedience???

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit are produced by your work at the law???

With man it is impossible to produce this fruit of the Spirit, but with God it is possible.


The 10 commandments are not Gods Law. They are Moses Law.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


Calling the 10 commandments Gods Law is just another way for legalists to continue in their circular reasoning and continue working at the law.

The Lord Jesus doesn't call the 10 commandments 'Gods Law'. Paul and Peter don't call the 10 Commandments 'Gods Law'. So who calls the 10 commandments 'Gods Law'???
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,547
3,182
113
What do you think the accuser of the brethren uses to accuse the brethren?

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

1 Corinthians 5:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.


What is the solution?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,638
629
113
Thank you Joshua, that is very interesting, you don't mind if I keep it with the rest of my notes do you?

So let me ask, what in the whole of the Bible do you treasure the most?
I was thinking about this and I don't know if I have a most treasured portion :unsure: I value it all.

...I do have a favorite verse if that's what you mean, and that would be John 3:6.

"That which is born of flesh is flesh. And that which is born of Spirit is Spirit".
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Having their children pass through the fire is child sacrifice to the detestable god Molech, a bronze bull idol, heated red hot, in which infants were placed.

God never told them to do this, nor did such an abomination ever even enter His mind.
Ya see? This is the difference between salvation which is "everlasting?"
And salvation, which is "eternal!"
Salvation that is "everlasting?" Goes from the point which one becomes saved forwards in time to the end of the age!
Salvation that is "eternal?" Goes from the point one is saved? THEN, "backtracks" its way to that "which ALWAYS IS!" Thus, rendering THIS current "everlasting?"
"Just another TOWN along THE WAY!"

Which is the WHY? IT'S SEEN AND REGARDED AS "HEBREW ROOTS, OR JUDIZERS, OR LEGALISTS, OR WORKS FOR SALVATION!"
(sighs)
Which Is why many are called, but, few are chosen!
Why, God called the order of Melchizadek a FOREVER Priesthood! BECAUSE IT IS!
Y'all COULD be in this "forever Priesthood." IF y'all allowed God to work y'all BACKWARDS within yourselves!

But, that would require the Picking up of your cross and pressing on to the High Calling of God!

And, this definition of Molech you gave? Is only the OUTWARDS demonstration, of that which goes on internally within "one flesh", if you will, leading up to and including ejaculation!
You are correct!
THIS? NEVER DID "enter God's mind!"
Entered SOMEONE ELSES mind though!
Didn't it?


Thaz, OK though! Y'all got a thousand years to be taught!

Matthew 19
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men/women cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

For THIS is what's it's like in fighting the "carnal man/woman!"

This even was a "vow" Priests were demanded to take before becoming Priests in Catholicism.
As was also an expectation of Gentile Teachers/Preachers/Pastors/etc.
Yet, we see that none of these, were very able, in some cases, in the upholding this!

As opposed to? And, the "way it was", BEFORE the fall of Adam?
1 Timothy 1

2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.



 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
34,363
12,153
113
[Psalm:137:7] - Edom laid claim of Jerusalem when Israel was taken away. And as former servants of the kingdom, they retained all the knowledge of the temple service and the scriptures...so when Judah was allowed to return they relied on Edomite "Judeans"
Psalm 137 does not at all say what you claim.

Psalms 137:7
Remember, LORD, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell. "Tear it down," they cried, "tear it down to its foundations!"

Edom said tear down Jerusalem, not let us possess the temple.

And you are also teaching lies about the return of Judah:

Ezra 2:36-58 The priests: the descendants of Jedaiah (through the family of Jeshua) 973 </tr> of Immer 1,052 </tr> of Pashhur 1,247 </tr> of Harim 1,017 </tr> The Levites: the descendants of Jeshua and Kadmiel (of the line of Hodaviah) 74 </tr> The musicians: the descendants of Asaph 128 </tr> The gatekeepers of the temple: the descendants of </tr> Shallum, Ater, Talmon, </tr> Akkub, Hatita and Shobai 139 </tr> The temple servants: the descendants of </tr> Ziha, Hasupha, Tabbaoth, </tr> Keros, Siaha, Padon, </tr> Lebanah, Hagabah, Akkub, </tr> Hagab, Shalmai, Hanan, </tr> Giddel, Gahar, Reaiah, </tr> Rezin, Nekoda, Gazzam, </tr> Uzza, Paseah, Besai, </tr> Asnah, Meunim, Nephusim, </tr> Bakbuk, Hakupha, Harhur, </tr> Bazluth, Mehida, Harsha, </tr> Barkos, Sisera, Temah, </tr> Neziah and Hatipha </tr> The descendants of the servants of Solomon: the descendants of </tr> Sotai, Hassophereth, Peruda, </tr> Jaala, Darkon, Giddel, </tr> Shephatiah, Hattil, </tr> Pokereth-Hazzebaim and Ami </tr> The temple servants and the descendants of the servants of Solomon 392 </tr>

Hundreds of Levites, priests and temple servants returned to rebuild the temple and restore its services.