Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Mar 14, 2011
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I'm looking forward to an honest answer. You know you aren't going to get one, right? The vail is over the mind of the ones who read and try to follow Moses.





This shows that the poster thinks there is never a time when someone isn't under the law, otherwise he thinks Jesus will say I never knew you. Unfortunately, everyone who works at the law is WITHOUT THE LAW. Only those who have been given rest and abide in Christ have this fortunate side effect of keeping Gods Laws and Statutes.
Good catch, I did not see this. The law condemns everyone where they stand, Us included. There is no such thing as without the law. Unless you are under grace through faith
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Nicely worded!

The same can be asked about "what" inspired the "godly sorrow" that leads to repentance. Was that a prescriptive prompting?

That said, would you agree that all promptings and all that The Holy Spirit puts within us, within our hearts, are prescriptive, or would you say that the law written on our hearts and the motivation/will to do them is directed from outside our will?
I am still waiting for an answer to my question.

How is one saved, And how does one obey Gods commands? (jesus answered both)
 
May 1, 2019
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3 questions

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Do you believe this to be a factual and true statement?

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.
Do you believe this to be a factual and true statement?


If the Lord saith I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their heart and I will be to them a God

And you hear a man teach there is no more law , the words and deeds of that man would be considered?

1. of law
2. of lawlessness


Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience Disobedience to what???
Colossians 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him Is the image of Him as one who walks perfectly under the law? Yes, therefore to take Him in, you MUST take in the law, BUT through HIM it is light and easy, in no way a burden because it is your "new nature, it comes more natural to you, and you are not bound by that law at all anymore for any salvation, you are also free from ever having to remain in a STATE of sin because HE made sin so easily forgivable for you through HIS NOT IN ANYWAY EASY DEFEAT OVER DEATH, oh death where is thy sting? but that doesn't mean you lose your knowledge and wisdom which tells you "I am still in the flesh" and that flesh will remain at war with my spirit, and I am not Jesus...

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Good Morning DeighAnn,

Sometimes I think we wrestle with others over the LAW not because any of us are not indebted to Jesus for our redemption, or because any of us do not recognize the Grace of God and that our Righteousness is a gift, but because we do not all have clearly in our minds where we are positionally before God.

Take a servant who is bonded to hes master. From what position does that servant choose to obey or not obey His masters wishes? Then consider a free man who chances upon a Good Master who is desirous to have him as a servant. What are the free mans options? Does the word obey and disobey even come into place before he chooses to accept a position as servant? He certainly has the choice to remain free and independent of that Good Master and His requirements. But what is our position, especially the elect.

Heb 4:13 NIV Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

So, if a man, even a sinner, especially the house of Israel and Judah is living a carnal life is it Gods prerogative to call and choose him and write His laws upon his heart and make him to will and to do of His good pleasure without that mans consent? I know...we are talking "Calvanism"

Think about the passage:

Mat 22:10-14 KJV So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. (11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

Especially the one highlighted you note the words called and chosen, but where is the part where the man or should I say servant, agreed? The fact that he was not clothed in righteousness means he was unrighteous or lawless, but even as a servant we have two choices; obey or disobey...

So which do you think it is?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I do not fully understand your question without you answering the details to my followup question.
So you can not tell me how one is saved.

And what the bible says about how we are obedient?

Thats worry some my friend. You asked me why do children do what God has described. That was my question to you. You want me to answer my own question? How is that going to help me understand what you believe?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Good Morning DeighAnn,

Sometimes I think we wrestle with others over the LAW not because any of us are not indebted to Jesus for our redemption, or because any of us do not recognize the Grace of God and that our Righteousness is a gift, but because we do not all have clearly in our minds where we are positionally before God.

Take a servant who is bonded to hes master. From what position does that servant choose to obey or not obey His masters wishes? Then consider a free man who chances upon a Good Master who is desirous to have him as a servant. What are the free mans options? Does the word obey and disobey even come into place before he chooses to accept a position as servant? He certainly has the choice to remain free and independent of that Good Master and His requirements. But what is our position, especially the elect.

Heb 4:13 NIV Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

So, if a man, even a sinner, especially the house of Israel and Judah is living a carnal life is it Gods prerogative to call and choose him and write His laws upon his heart and make him to will and to do of His good pleasure without that mans consent? I know...we are talking "Calvanism"

Think about the passage:

Mat 22:10-14 KJV So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. (11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

Especially the one highlighted you note the words called and chosen, but where is the part where the man or should I say servant, agreed? The fact that he was not clothed in righteousness means he was unrighteous or lawless, but even as a servant we have two choices; obey or disobey...

So which do you think it is?
I think that I would like you to explain that in more detail for me because I would really like that. I know the only lives God can "interfere" in is the lives of His elect and those who have invited Him in. What I don't get, if bad and good were all brought in why the one guy didn't have a garment.

And yes, on the highlighted verse, the deeper you study the harder that becomes to read yet the more sense it makes. And you want to run out into the world and shake it and scream wake up.
 
May 1, 2019
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I think that I would like you to explain that in more detail for me because I would really like that. I know the only lives God can "interfere" in is the lives of His elect and those who have invited Him in. What I don't get, if bad and good were all brought in why the one guy didn't have a garment.

And yes, on the highlighted verse, the deeper you study the harder that becomes to read yet the more sense it makes. And you want to run out into the world and shake it and scream wake up.

The wedding Garment symbolizes righteousness. He was unrighteous. He refused to put on righteousness, which is lawfulness.
 
May 1, 2019
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That was directed to "eternally grateful" :)

I will try to give more detail where you asked earlier.

Can you see the difference between a "Bond Servant" and a "Free Man"? when I say one is required to do all his master requires of him and the other has a choice in what or who he obeys?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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That was directed to "eternally grateful" :)

I will try to give more detail where you asked earlier.

Can you see the difference between a "Bond Servant" and a "Free Man"? when I say one is required to do all his master requires of him and the other has a choice in what or who he obeys?
Elect and whomsoever would. That makes sense, I do not see EGs anymore, I will keep it in mind.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The wedding Garment symbolizes righteousness. He was unrighteous. He refused to put on righteousness, which is lawfulness.
If righteousness is lawfulness, how could anyone have a righteousness apart from the Law (Romans 3:21)?
 
May 1, 2019
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Elect and whomsoever would. That makes sense, I do not see EGs anymore, I will keep it in mind.
So, which do you think the lost sheep of the house of Israel are, Free of servants? We can go further, as Paul said:

Heb 4:13 KJV Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

So, If Israel are servants to their Creator do they have a choice in the writing of the law on their hearts? But even beyond and back to the essential question of the OP, even though we are servants and are being given the Law upon our hearts do we have the option to choose sin over righteousness? If so then:

Heb 2:1-4 KJV Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; (3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; (4) God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


While it may not be clear yet, the status of servant is truly important as there is no option other than life or death, obedience or disobedience, Lawfulness or lawlessness. there are choices every step of the way. Hence the admonition:

Php 2:12-13 KJV Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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So, which do you think the lost sheep of the house of Israel are, Free of servants? We can go further, as Paul said:

Heb 4:13 KJV Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

So, If Israel are servants to their Creator do they have a choice in the writing of the law on their hearts? But even beyond and back to the essential question of the OP, even though we are servants and are being given the Law upon our hearts do we have the option to choose sin over righteousness? If so then:

Heb 2:1-4 KJV Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; (3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; (4) God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


While it may not be clear yet, the status of servant is truly important as there is no option other than life or death, obedience or disobedience, Lawfulness or lawlessness. there are choices every step of the way. Hence the admonition:

Php 2:12-13 KJV Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Are you going to answer the question of how one is saved and made into the image of god?

Or was grandpa right in his assessment?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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3 questions

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Do you believe this to be a factual and true statement?

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.
Do you believe this to be a factual and true statement?


If the Lord saith I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their heart and I will be to them a God

And you hear a man teach there is no more law , the words and deeds of that man would be considered?

1. of law
2. of lawlessness


Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience Disobedience to what???
Colossians 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him Is the image of Him as one who walks perfectly under the law? Yes, therefore to take Him in, you MUST take in the law, BUT through HIM it is light and easy, in no way a burden because it is your "new nature, it comes more natural to you, and you are not bound by that law at all anymore for any salvation, you are also free from ever having to remain in a STATE of sin because HE made sin so easily forgivable for you through HIS NOT IN ANYWAY EASY DEFEAT OVER DEATH, oh death where is thy sting? but that doesn't mean you lose your knowledge and wisdom which tells you "I am still in the flesh" and that flesh will remain at war with my spirit, and I am not Jesus...

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
You don't understand the difference between the 10 commandments and Gods Law.

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

Then you will understand what Rest is and it will make sense when a Christian tells you they are not under the law.

But it is very easy to see that you do not understand. That's the problem with legalists and Pharisees. They think they are teaching law but they are teaching ignorance.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You don't understand the difference between the 10 commandments and Gods Law.

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

Then you will understand what Rest is and it will make sense when a Christian tells you they are not under the law.

But it is very easy to see that you do not understand. That's the problem with legalists and Pharisees. They think they are teaching law but they are teaching ignorance.
As paul said, how can they teach the law when they themselves do not understand it.
 
May 1, 2019
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If righteousness is lawfulness, how could anyone have a righteousness apart from the Law (Romans 3:21)?

Well, there was original righteousness, the way God made Adam, morally good and maintained that righteousness by keeping God’s moral law until he didn’t. When he fell and that was the last we saw of that until Jesus who kept Gods moral law perfectly, so Christ’s Righteousness was “not apart from the law”, then you have justification or “imputed righteousness”, and then you have Sanctification which is better looked at as “renewed righteousness” where we are made in the likeness of Christ where we again keep Gods moral law.

In the scrippture you cited, go back one to Rom 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The deeds of the law did not justify sinful men. Justification is “Imputed Righteousness” not merited. The righteousness Paul is speaking of is not “Original” or “Sanctification/Renewed” righteousness, but Christs Righteousness which He obtained through the keeping of Gods moral Law. So, in the verse you quoted Rom 3:21:


But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

…the righteousness he is referring to is Justification righteousness which is apart from the Law, but the righteousness all “justified” sinners should be focused on is “Sanctification righteousness” which is not apart from the Law.
 
May 1, 2019
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Elect and whomsoever would. That makes sense, I do not see EGs anymore, I will keep it in mind.
Greetings DeighAnn, the thoughts I shared were vague and incomplete. Would still like to discuss some of those other topisc some time, any time you would like.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Well, there was original righteousness, the way God made Adam, morally good and maintained that righteousness by keeping God’s moral law until he didn’t. When he fell and that was the last we saw of that until Jesus who kept Gods moral law perfectly, so Christ’s Righteousness was “not apart from the law”, then you have justification or “imputed righteousness”, and then you have Sanctification which is better looked at as “renewed righteousness” where we are made in the likeness of Christ where we again keep Gods moral law.

In the scrippture you cited, go back one to Rom 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The deeds of the law did not justify sinful men. Justification is “Imputed Righteousness” not merited. The righteousness Paul is speaking of is not “Original” or “Sanctification/Renewed” righteousness, but Christs Righteousness which He obtained through the keeping of Gods moral Law. So, in the verse you quoted Rom 3:21:


But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

…the righteousness he is referring to is Justification righteousness which is apart from the Law, but the righteousness all “justified” sinners should be focused on is “Sanctification righteousness” which is not apart from the Law.
One can not be righteous by the law, why would you want to argue otherwise?

Gal 3 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.