Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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May 1, 2019
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One can not be righteous by the law, why would you want to argue otherwise?

Gal 3 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Okay, then what would you prefer to call sanctification?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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You don't understand the difference between the 10 commandments and Gods Law.

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

Then you will understand what Rest is and it will make sense when a Christian tells you they are not under the law.

But it is very easy to see that you do not understand. That's the problem with legalists and Pharisees. They think they are teaching law but they are teaching ignorance.
so now you are saying there is Law that He puts in the mind and heart?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Well, there was original righteousness, the way God made Adam, morally good and maintained that righteousness by keeping God’s moral law until he didn’t. When he fell and that was the last we saw of that until Jesus who kept Gods moral law perfectly, so Christ’s Righteousness was “not apart from the law”, then you have justification or “imputed righteousness”, and then you have Sanctification which is better looked at as “renewed righteousness” where we are made in the likeness of Christ where we again keep Gods moral law.

In the scrippture you cited, go back one to Rom 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The deeds of the law did not justify sinful men. Justification is “Imputed Righteousness” not merited. The righteousness Paul is speaking of is not “Original” or “Sanctification/Renewed” righteousness, but Christs Righteousness which He obtained through the keeping of Gods moral Law. So, in the verse you quoted Rom 3:21:


But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

…the righteousness he is referring to is Justification righteousness which is apart from the Law, but the righteousness all “justified” sinners should be focused on is “Sanctification righteousness” which is not apart from the Law.
It appears to me that you are playing with semantics. Paul doesn't make the distinctions that you make. We are neither justified nor sanctified by adherence to the Law.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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It appears to me that you are playing with semantics. Paul doesn't make the distinctions that you make. We are neither justified nor sanctified by adherence to the Law.
What is righteous?
What is justified?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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What is righteous?
What is justified?
Righteous according to the law = perfect. = not breaking one part of the law (only Jesus fulfilled this aspect of the law)
Justified - you have been declared judicially innocent of a crime (according to the law. This is accomplished by blood)

Actually, the same basic root word in the greek is used for both.
 
May 1, 2019
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To what "end" are you posting on this forum? What will be the "end" result? Could we see that the word "end" can mean objective or goal? Some translations renders the word "end" as "culmination". Context is king, Paul goes on to say God forbid the law is made void. This is so basic, yet we go round and round, ever learning but never finding the truth.
Greetings Karraster,

I looked over a reply to this same post of yours and realized it was misplaced/meant for another post. My apologies for any confusion.

p.s. the Serengeti bunch are prowling through this thread ;) :(
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Whenever a conflict arises I will always go with what Jesus or God said over everyone else. I understand the Bible is the Word of God but it is not all the words of God. Take the first 38 chapters of Job. God says himself
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? That is 38 Chapters that are to prove and teach us a lesson, but they are not Gods words, or His wisdom, they are for edification. There are times we read, where I tell you, and it isn't God telling us. I take that stuff very serious.
I see. Well, if in your view you are free to set aside any part of the scriptures that is not presented as a direct quote of Jesus or God, then basically we are not using the same scriptures... I would say then that we don't have a common basis for discussion.

Peace be with you!
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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Peace be with you![/QUOTE]
And also with you
 

Victor1999

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
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This topic worries me daily and I haven't found a clear answer yet. But I do know for sure that in Jeremiah 31 of the Old Testament it is written that the New Covenant will be nothing like the Mosaic one. Brothers, please keep this promise in mind as you continue this discussion because God is faithful and it was written with a purpose. In another place it forever remains written that none of God's Words will return to Him without accomplishing the purpose they were spoken for.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful
Psalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in His law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psalm 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psalm 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

You know what? I am going to continue to delight in the law of the LORD, every day and every night JUST because I like it.

And I am going to teach anyone and everyone who wants to know what that law is and why that law was and is GOOD and how knowledge makes us feel. I am going to teach its goodness and I am going to teach that that Jesus, walked His entire life while he was here in the flesh, "under that law" and how His walk and death allowed us to be freed from the bondage of it. He did it perfectly and THAT PLEASED GOD. I am going to teach that I want to be as much like Him as I can and that law tells me what he did do and what he didn't. AND you know the best part? I am exactly the Word tells me I should be. I know that the law cant make me righteous. I know as much righteousness as I could ever produce is but as filthy rags, but those rags are going to be washed clean in His blood, and they are going to come out white as can be and I am going to have a nice linen white robe.

I am absolutely positive I would have miserably failed at making it into heaven, and my blessed hope is with my Lord and Saviour. I can't even begin to show the appreciation I feel for all that has gifted me, and what the cost was. I know the pain and humiliation it took for Him to give it to me, and how blessed I am to be able to speak to God everyday ONLY because of all that He did.

So God Bless everyone who loves the Lord God.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful
Psalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in His law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psalm 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psalm 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

You know what? I am going to continue to delight in the law of the LORD, every day and every night JUST because I like it.

And I am going to teach anyone and everyone who wants to know what that law is and why that law was and is GOOD and how knowledge makes us feel. I am going to teach its goodness and I am going to teach that that Jesus, walked His entire life while he was here in the flesh, "under that law" and how His walk and death allowed us to be freed from the bondage of it. He did it perfectly and THAT PLEASED GOD. I am going to teach that I want to be as much like Him as I can and that law tells me what he did do and what he didn't. AND you know the best part? I am exactly the Word tells me I should be. I know that the law cant make me righteous. I know as much righteousness as I could ever produce is but as filthy rags, but those rags are going to be washed clean in His blood, and they are going to come out white as can be and I am going to have a nice linen white robe.

I am absolutely positive I would have miserably failed at making it into heaven, and my blessed hope is with my Lord and Saviour. I can't even begin to show the appreciation I feel for all that has gifted me, and what the cost was. I know the pain and humiliation it took for Him to give it to me, and how blessed I am to be able to speak to God everyday ONLY because of all that He did.

So God Bless everyone who loves the Lord God.
What do you think the Law of the Lord is, exactly?

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

You don't think it was the same ministration of death written and engraved on stones, do you?

How would someone delight in death? Doesn't really make sense does it?

But what would make sense is if the Law of the Lord and Gods Laws that He puts in our minds and writes on our hearts is a different law than the ministration of death written on stones.

Why would God prt death in our minds and write death on our hearts?

Something for you to maybe think about.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Its important to understand concepts. But you don't understand them. Because of your insistence in working at the law. You try to twist everything back to working at the law.

Why is it important to understand that Christ is the end of the law for Righteousness to everyone who believes?

Certain judaizers and legalists believe that it is their work at the law that makes them believers. But I have shown that the opposite is the case. Their work at the law shows they do not believe.
If you had nothing in respects to the Scripture given that is what you should of posted. Please Prove the post wrong text by text. Your post is nothing more than a personal attack. It does not address the text and the facts shared. The fact that 3 people here gave you a positive affirmations for a unwarranted personal attack is quit telling. You posted.
The purpose of the law is to bring you to Christ.

The law ALWAYS shows you your sin and nothing else. But that's not its ultimate purpose.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In every way, Christ is the end of the law for Righteousness to everyone that believes.


.
So once again in respects to Romans 10:4 Why rip that text out of the context it was written?
Start in 9:30 to let say verse 8 in chapter 10.

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 9:30-10:8 KJV)

!0:6-8 is a paraphrase of the words spoken in prophecy to Israel and now again to Israel and throughout the whole world.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

The Word, God's commandments and statutes in the the heart and mouth through Christ is the Faith in which we preach Paul said. Israel did not have this faith. The majority refused it and were only trying to follow the letter of the law and not allowing it in the heart.

For Christ (the word, the law in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (written on tebles of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Seed time harvest you posted originally
In reply this was posted
What seest thou?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
To which you answered, "They were purifying things In the old testament with the blood of bulls and goats which was a foreshadowing of the blood of JESUS which was the actual thing and able to make them perfect."

Amen! It is much more specific than things; yes? Verse 13 says,
"For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth (hallowed) to the purifying (cleansing) of the flesh:"

The context is Our Flesh purified to the point of it being Holy ceremonially by the blood of bulls and goats. Then Verse 14 says,

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge (cleanse) your conscience (the inner man; who you are) from dead works (sin, acts that cause death) to serve the living God?"

Conscience defined by Thayer

συνείδησις
suneidēsis
Thayer Definition:
1) the consciousness of anything
2) the soul as distinguishing between what is morally good and bad, prompting to do the former and shun the latter, commending one, condemning the other
2a) the conscience

It can be about us feeling guilty about things but that is not the case here. Context connects the purging the conscience (inner man) to the purging the flesh, making us holy.


And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. ( God writing His Law in the heart and mind) Behold all things are new and of GOD!


(Heb 9:13-15 KJV)

Chapter 10 in the verses that were share confirm this. Here take a look.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. ( the inner man changed)
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. ( the inner man changed) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


This context carries throughout this chapter. Check it out
 
May 1, 2019
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Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful
Psalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in His law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psalm 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psalm 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

You know what? I am going to continue to delight in the law of the LORD, every day and every night JUST because I like it.

And I am going to teach anyone and everyone who wants to know what that law is and why that law was and is GOOD and how knowledge makes us feel. I am going to teach its goodness and I am going to teach that that Jesus, walked His entire life while he was here in the flesh, "under that law" and how His walk and death allowed us to be freed from the bondage of it. He did it perfectly and THAT PLEASED GOD. I am going to teach that I want to be as much like Him as I can and that law tells me what he did do and what he didn't. AND you know the best part? I am exactly the Word tells me I should be. I know that the law cant make me righteous. I know as much righteousness as I could ever produce is but as filthy rags, but those rags are going to be washed clean in His blood, and they are going to come out white as can be and I am going to have a nice linen white robe.

I am absolutely positive I would have miserably failed at making it into heaven, and my blessed hope is with my Lord and Saviour. I can't even begin to show the appreciation I feel for all that has gifted me, and what the cost was. I know the pain and humiliation it took for Him to give it to me, and how blessed I am to be able to speak to God everyday ONLY because of all that He did.

So God Bless everyone who loves the Lord God.
Good Morning DeighAnn,

I heard you! And smiled :)

So many on here have given themselves the job of discouraging those who "Hunger and thirst after righteousness" I see it and feel it and recognize the beauty of Gods Laws, and if a person such as yourself sees The Heavenly Fathers hand and face in those words then I can only encourage you to "be there"! As you said so well; Jesus was there in them and I want to be there too.

I know that the Holy Spirit informs us in all matters, but I also know that He starts with the written word. Take leaders for example, when we read the written laws of their qualifications we then recognize the important details:

Deu 1:13 KJV Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.

Exo 18:21 KJV Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:

These things are written in Gods Laws. Can you see any reason not to know them? Can you see any reason the adversary would benefit from our ignorance of them?

Scripture is full of guidance for us. And as Paul cited:

2Ti 3:16 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Instruction in Righteousness! Don't let anyone shame you into avoiding "Instruction in Righteousness"!

I thank God that those who harp on righteousness like it is some form of sin for anyone who desires it, have not dissuaded your love for it. A love of righteousness is a love for God! Exodus and Deuteronomy are full of Gods Laws. After reading Jesus's words, admonitions etc you will find Him in Exodus and Deuteronomy too!
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
What do you think the Law of the Lord is, exactly?

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

You don't think it was the same ministration of death written and engraved on stones, do you?

How would someone delight in death? Doesn't really make sense does it?

But what would make sense is if the Law of the Lord and Gods Laws that He puts in our minds and writes on our hearts is a different law than the ministration of death written on stones.

Why would God prt death in our minds and write death on our hearts?

Something for you to maybe think about.
The only time you make a comment is to put forth your tradition.
You don't understand the difference between the 10 commandments and Gods Law.

If you ever do then you will understand the difference between the law and Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart.

Then you will understand what Rest is and it will make sense when a Christian tells you they are not under the law.

But it is very easy to see that you do not understand. That's the problem with legalists and Pharisees. They think they are teaching law but they are teaching ignorance.
Here it is in your own words "Gods Law that He puts in the mind and heart" Is this what you teach?