Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

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Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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I would accept any date from any calendar that showed where Jesus set His feet on the Mt of olives and it split in half.
4200 FC (From Creation). Yes, I do believe that I correctly came to this conclusion from scripture. No, it is not as easy as quoting a few verses. But at this time, I truly believe that this is as close as I am going to get to an answer. The Jews still use the Hebrew Calendar to this day. Their date is 5774. Out date is 2014. If you add 4000 to 2014, you get 6014. That is a 250 year difference! While 4006 is a popular date among Christians, it is not conclusive. If you subtract 2014 from 5774, you get 3760. 3760 is too early for the life, death, or resurrection of Jesus. If you are well studied then you will know that is true. So, I do not really put a lot in "AD 70" as a date for the fall of Jerusalem. I also do not buy the date that scholars place on the writing of the books of the bible. I just read scripture and pray that I have understanding.

In conclusion, I do not believe that a date can be placed on any of the events of the NT (at least not according to the Gregorian Calendar). History being recorded by men and the ones that win battles, no less.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
4200 FC (From Creation). Yes, I do believe that I correctly came to this conclusion from scripture. No, it is not as easy as quoting a few verses. But at this time, I truly believe that this is as close as I am going to get to an answer. The Jews still use the Hebrew Calendar to this day. Their date is 5774. Out date is 2014. If you add 4000 to 2014, you get 6014. That is a 250 year difference! While 4006 is a popular date among Christians, it is not conclusive. If you subtract 2014 from 5774, you get 3760. 3760 is too early for the life, death, or resurrection of Jesus. If you are well studied then you will know that is true. So, I do not really put a lot in "AD 70" as a date for the fall of Jerusalem. I also do not buy the date that scholars place on the writing of the books of the bible. I just read scripture and pray that I have understanding.

In conclusion, I do not believe that a date can be placed on any of the events of the NT (at least not according to the Gregorian Calendar). History being recorded by men and the ones that win battles, no less.
Because the event hasn't happened yet. Good nite and God bless
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
You say, "I was with you while you were just quoting scripture, but you lost me when you started interpreting it. There is evidence or turning away by the "elect" in the bible."

What do you mean by "turning away"?
Indeed, Christians deviate from the straight and narrow frequently -- as James say, in many ways we all stumble. If you are claiming that the elect stop being elect, proof is required for that one. It sounds like an oxymoron to me. You quote Galatians on Barnabas and Peter. Yes, they goofed at Antioch. But I am at a loss for what is remarkable about that or indicative for stopping being the elect.

I am glad that you can distinguish when one quotes scripture from when one interprets scripture. That is like being a noble Beroean.

"
Beroea: who when they were come thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so. "
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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You say, "I was with you while you were just quoting scripture, but you lost me when you started interpreting it. There is evidence or turning away by the "elect" in the bible."

What do you mean by "turning away"?
Indeed, Christians deviate from the straight and narrow frequently -- as James say, in many ways we all stumble. If you are claiming that the elect stop being elect, proof is required for that one. It sounds like an oxymoron to me. You quote Galatians on Barnabas and Peter. Yes, they goofed at Antioch. But I am at a loss for what is remarkable about that or indicative for stopping being the elect.

I am glad that you can distinguish when one quotes scripture from when one interprets scripture. That is like being a noble Beroean.

"
Beroea: who when they were come thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so. "


Matthew 24:20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you in advance. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.



Galatians 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I (Paul)opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP][SUP][/SUP]The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.


Now I have seen and heard people who refer to all Christians as the elect, but I would lean toward apostles as the elect (or maybe other leading men (Christians) of the first century church). And quite frankly, I don't know how you can say that it was not remarkable for Peter to do a 180 degree turn like that. We see Peter running at the cross, then we see him stand up to the council and tell them that it doesn't matter what it done to them they will continue to preach the word of God. And then this, Gal 2 - What happened Peter? Why did you loose sight of God. Paul says "stood condemned" and you shrug your shoulders and say "no biggie" - There must be something wrong on your end or mine, but it seems that it is yours. Maybe you can shed some light on the situation and show me how I can "fix" it on my end.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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Because the event hasn't happened yet. Good nite and God bless
(Sarcastic, but not aggressive - you know kinda loose)
Well, with that overwhelming evidence, I will hafta concede. You win. How could I have been so wrong...not to see that "because the event hasn't happened yet". Well, thanks Kerry. Hey, can you show me what verse where that "jewel" is, because I want to write it down.

(Now back to serious:))
I admit, as sometimes others fail to do, that I don't know everything. I don't understand all scripture. I don't know how or in what "mode" Jesus came back. I tend to think that He dealt out some Judgment, but I am not sure. Just because you don't have the whole puzzle together doesn't mean you can't tell that it is a train (Train is just the kind of puzzle that came to mind and was not intended for symbolic use).
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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Matthew 24:20

Galatians 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I (Paul)opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.


Now I have seen and heard people who refer to all Christians as the elect, but I would lean toward apostles as the elect (or maybe other leading men (Christians) of the first century church). And quite frankly, I don't know how you can say that it was not remarkable for Peter to do a 180 degree turn like that. We see Peter running at the cross, then we see him stand up to the council and tell them that it doesn't matter what it done to them they will continue to preach the word of God. And then this, Gal 2 - What happened Peter? Why did you loose sight of God. Paul says "stood condemned" and you shrug your shoulders and say "no biggie" - There must be something wrong on your end or mine, but it seems that it is yours. Maybe you can shed some light on the situation and show me how I can "fix" it on my end.
Well Timeline, you are sure correct that the ways of God are not affected by human opinions. He never worries about being politically correct.

On the elect, I suggest a concordance study of the term. Perhaps Ephesians 1 would be a good place to start.

Peter at Antioch goofed by separating to a Kosher table, it would appear, and not eating with Gentiles, despite his remarkable dream in Acts. But I believe that most Christians are like that, goofing every day, making these 180 degree shifts from walking in the Spirit & abiding in Christ to walking after the flesh. We have 2 modes of operation, and cannot get rid of the ability to shift gears to flesh mode. So Peter briefly erred at Antioch. But apparently he took the rebuke from Paul and soon after supported Paul in the Jerusalem council of Acts 15. (I date Galatians right before that council meeting.)
Thank you for bringing to our attention two passages which are to be compared. This one in Galatians and Romans 8:1
κατεγνωσμένος ἦν = he stood condemned or convicted.


Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα τοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ . = There is therefore now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.

I note that the Greek words in each are different. I believe that the 2nd adds in the idea of assigned punishment, where as the first just indicates judgment that the act was evil. Peter did something bad, but he was not condemned to some penalty for it nor sentenced to a situation from which there was no escape. I take Rom 8:1 to indicate that Christians are no condemned to walk after the flesh (Rom 7) and sin all the time, not condemned to a situation in which they can never have victory and abide in fellowship with Christ.

Indeed, all Christians' sins are "biggies," but generally just what to expect. What else is new? He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin according to Peter (and the Lord). I take that to mean when we die, we stop sinning.

I'm not sure what you mean by fix it on your end. I assure you that there is absolutely nothing you can do right now that guarantees that in 5 minutes you will not blow it. No filling with the Spirit, no abiding in Christ, no asking Him to take over and run your life, no claiming of Galatians 2:20 (crucified with Christ) can guarantee that you won't sin and walk in the flesh 5 minutes later, if not sooner. I don't know of anything better than praying the prayer in Ephesians 3 for each other, as Paul did for the Ephesians, prayer which requires faith of the man who ends up filled to all the fullness of God. But note that by the time Revelation 2 was written, Paul's prayer that they might know the love of Christ that passes knowledge (Eph 3), that prayer was apparently not effective for that point in the future when they had left their first love.

I think Peter's walking on the water well illustrates the Christian life. Take the eyes off the Lord Jesus, stare at the waves, stop trusting Him, and you start to sink in the waves.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I think if you study the term elect in the Bible, you will come to the conclusion that it refers to all Christians and those who will some day trust Christ as Savior, not a special class.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
Well Timeline, you are sure correct that the ways of God are not affected by human opinions. He never worries about being politically correct.

On the elect, I suggest a concordance study of the term. Perhaps Ephesians 1 would be a good place to start.

Peter at Antioch goofed by separating to a Kosher table, it would appear, and not eating with Gentiles, despite his remarkable dream in Acts. But I believe that most Christians are like that, goofing every day, making these 180 degree shifts from walking in the Spirit & abiding in Christ to walking after the flesh. We have 2 modes of operation, and cannot get rid of the ability to shift gears to flesh mode. So Peter briefly erred at Antioch. But apparently he took the rebuke from Paul and soon after supported Paul in the Jerusalem council of Acts 15. (I date Galatians right before that council meeting.)
Thank you for bringing to our attention two passages which are to be compared. This one in Galatians and Romans 8:1
κατεγνωσμένος ἦν = he stood condemned or convicted.


Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα τοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ. = There is therefore now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.

I note that the Greek words in each are different. I believe that the 2nd adds in the idea of assigned punishment, where as the first just indicates judgment that the act was evil. Peter did something bad, but he was not condemned to some penalty for it nor sentenced to a situation from which there was no escape. I take Rom 8:1 to indicate that Christians are no condemned to walk after the flesh (Rom 7) and sin all the time, not condemned to a situation in which they can never have victory and abide in fellowship with Christ.

Indeed, all Christians' sins are "biggies," but generally just what to expect. What else is new? He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin according to Peter (and the Lord). I take that to mean when we die, we stop sinning.

I'm not sure what you mean by fix it on your end. I assure you that there is absolutely nothing you can do right now that guarantees that in 5 minutes you will not blow it. No filling with the Spirit, no abiding in Christ, no asking Him to take over and run your life, no claiming of Galatians 2:20 (crucified with Christ) can guarantee that you won't sin and walk in the flesh 5 minutes later, if not sooner. I don't know of anything better than praying the prayer in Ephesians 3 for each other, as Paul did for the Ephesians, prayer which requires faith of the man who ends up filled to all the fullness of God. But note that by the time Revelation 2 was written, Paul's prayer that they might know the love of Christ that passes knowledge (Eph 3), that prayer was apparently not effective for that point in the future when they had left their first love.

I think Peter's walking on the water well illustrates the Christian life. Take the eyes off the Lord Jesus, stare at the waves, stop trusting Him, and you start to sink in the waves.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I think if you study the term elect in the Bible, you will come to the conclusion that it refers to all Christians and those who will some day trust Christ as Savior, not a special class.
Well, I disagree, Jesus said, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." This does not suggest all Christians to me. This suggests the Apostles or the like. Peter had been filled with the Holy Spirit to a greater extent that we are. I doubt that you would consider anything that I wrote to be scripture, nor should you.

I'm sorry about the "fix it on my end" comment. It is a technology term that my father-in-law has used jokingly. You know, like when you call your internet service provider and they say nothing is wrong, but there you are on the other end with no internet. Anyway, sorry again, I shouldn't have used it.

I do think that the Galatians 2 incident was a bigger deal than you make it out though.

I also do not accept the traditional date for the writing of Revelation. I believe that it was written much earlier than 90 AD. I believe it was written before 70 AD. You can try to convince me otherwise, but biblical evidence will be more readily accepted than historical (outside of the bible) "on this end":).
 
K

Kerry

Guest
(Sarcastic, but not aggressive - you know kinda loose)
Well, with that overwhelming evidence, I will hafta concede. You win. How could I have been so wrong...not to see that "because the event hasn't happened yet". Well, thanks Kerry. Hey, can you show me what verse where that "jewel" is, because I want to write it down.

(Now back to serious:))
I admit, as sometimes others fail to do, that I don't know everything. I don't understand all scripture. I don't know how or in what "mode" Jesus came back. I tend to think that He dealt out some Judgment, but I am not sure. Just because you don't have the whole puzzle together doesn't mean you can't tell that it is a train (Train is just the kind of puzzle that came to mind and was not intended for symbolic use).
Then show me when Jesus set His feet on the Mt. of olives and it split in half.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
And where is new Jerusalem that 1500 miles long and 1500 miles wide and 1500 miles tall?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Why do we still have oceans and mountains, When did Russia and China march against Israel? When did the blood flow as high as a horses bridle. When did 3/5ths of the Earths population die? when did the two witness come? when was the temple rebuilt? When did the Jews accept the one they pierced? When did men have pain for six months and sought death and could not find it. When did the stars fall from Heaven. When did the hail stones the size of Volkswagen fall. When did the sky open as a scroll and the Lord returned with His saints. When are going to stop believing this junk. When are going to stop preaching lies?
 
L

Larry_Stotle

Guest
Then show me when Jesus set His feet on the Mt. of olives and it split in half.
And where is new Jerusalem that 1500 miles long and 1500 miles wide and 1500 miles tall?

Why do we still have oceans and mountains, When did Russia and China march against Israel? When did the blood flow as high as a horses bridle. When did 3/5ths of the Earths population die? when did the two witness come? when was the temple rebuilt? When did the Jews accept the one they pierced? When did men have pain for six months and sought death and could not find it. When did the stars fall from Heaven. When did the hail stones the size of Volkswagen fall. When did the sky open as a scroll and the Lord returned with His saints. When are going to stop believing this junk. When are going to stop preaching lies?
All figurative language - just as the holy city is spoken of in figurative language

The REAL Jerusalem is heavenly not earthy:

(Eph 2:20 KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone

(Rev 21:14 KJV) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


(1 Pet 2:5 KJV) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(Rev 21:19 KJV) And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;


(Heb 12:22 KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

How is it possible that the believers in the 1st century were able to come to mount Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem if John's vision is in the future?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
All figurative language - just as the holy city is spoken of in figurative language

The REAL Jerusalem is heavenly not earthy:

(Eph 2:20 KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone

(Rev 21:14 KJV) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


(1 Pet 2:5 KJV) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(Rev 21:19 KJV) And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;


(Heb 12:22 KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

How is it possible that the believers in the 1st century were able to come to mount Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem if John's vision is in the future?
You still haven't answered my first question, when did the Mt of Olives split in half? Nor did answer about the city that is 1,500 miles tall, Nor did you answer about the blood flowing to the height of a horses bridle, Nor did answer about the hail stones. Nor did answer when the Jesus came back with all of His saint's.

When was there silence in heaven when the Lamb opened the book? When did every nation come and pay tribute to the King Of Kings. When did Michael put Satan in the pit? when did you start believing this junk? when did the dead in Christ rise 1 Thess? when will you stop listening to some dude that just wants your money? When will you study for yourself? When will you ask God to open His word? Come on over to this side of God and quit believing Satan's lie.
I fear for you.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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Then show me when Jesus set His feet on the Mt. of olives and it split in half.
I just had de ja vu - yeah, I don't care how its spelled enough to look it up.

It's not in the bible, that I'm aware of Kerry. Maybe you should try Larry.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
And where is new Jerusalem that 1500 miles long and 1500 miles wide and 1500 miles tall?
You're funny. Do you realize how big that would be. If we live to see this city, you know, an actual city that meets this requirement, I will make arrangements to meet you face to face and say, "I was wrong and you were right. And if we are still able, I will even buy you lunch:p"
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Zechariah 14:4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Last time I looked at google Earth this has not happened. Try the bible and not Larry.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
Why do we still have oceans and mountains, When did Russia and China march against Israel? When did the blood flow as high as a horses bridle. When did 3/5ths of the Earths population die? when did the two witness come? when was the temple rebuilt? When did the Jews accept the one they pierced? When did men have pain for six months and sought death and could not find it. When did the stars fall from Heaven. When did the hail stones the size of Volkswagen fall. When did the sky open as a scroll and the Lord returned with His saints. When are going to stop believing this junk. When are going to stop preaching lies?
hail stones the size of Volkswagens? I remember hail stones about 100lbs each.

You seem to read the bible, but aren't paying attention. Do you remember the verse where Jesus says that Lazarus is sleeping and then has to explain that he was dead? Or the verse where Jesus says to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Apostles started talking about bread, then Jesus had to explain? There are many things in the bible that are symbolic. We see this in the way the Son of God speaks.

But I imagine when things got this bad no one was really trying to get it on paper, you think. I mean when the world is falling apart and the camcorder hasn't been invented - probably not a lot of recording going on. Besides the writers were probably taken up. :)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
You're funny. Do you realize how big that would be. If we live to see this city, you know, an actual city that meets this requirement, I will make arrangements to meet you face to face and say, "I was wrong and you were right. And if we are still able, I will even buy you lunch:p"
You'll be able to, as long as you've stored up riches in heaven.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
You're funny. Do you realize how big that would be. If we live to see this city, you know, an actual city that meets this requirement, I will make arrangements to meet you face to face and say, "I was wrong and you were right. And if we are still able, I will even buy you lunch:p"
I hope I will see you there, Have you read the bible at all?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
[h=3]Job 38:21-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?