Discussion on the End Times

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Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Gotta go guys
fun and exhilarating
heavy revvies
revelations
...and even peril
LOL
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
139
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The Redemption of the Nazarenes
Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind has gone out from the Lord, a sweeping whirlwind, coming down onto the heads of the wicked. The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside, it will accomplish His purposes.
In days to come, you will understand.
Deut. 29:4, Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 48:6-8

Jeremiah 31:1-40 At that time, I shall be the God of all the families of Israel and they will be My people, a people that have escaped the sword and found favour in the wilderness. From afar God will appear to His people. 2 Thess. 1:10. He loves and cares for them and will build them up again, for a Day will come when the watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim: Come, let us go up Zion, unto the Lord our God. Once again, they will be happy and the Land will be fruitful. They will worship God in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 20:34-36
The Lord says: be joyful for Jacob’s sake, sing praises and say- God has saved His people, He has preserved a remnant of Israel. See how He brings them from all parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, women and children. A vast company, they come with weeping and prayer, God will comfort and escort them. He will lead them by streams of water, on smooth paths, for He is the Father to Israel and Ephraim is His eldest son. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 62:10-12

Listen to the Word of the Lord, you nations, make it known to people far away. He who scattered Israel, will gather them again and will watch over them as a shepherd watches over his flock. For God has redeemed Jacob [now every true Christian] and delivered them from their enemies. His righteous people will come with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14-15,
Rachel weeps for her children. [Rachel is the mother of Jacob/ Israel] Shed no more tears, for they will leave the nations and return to their own Land. God has disciplined Ephraim, like an unruly bull calf. After Ephraim strayed, he repented and now in shame and remorse; reproaches himself for the sins of his youth. God says: Ephraim is still My dear son, in whom I delight and I still remember him and have compassion for him. Hosea 11:8-9 Set up signs to mark your way, the path for your return. [The dolmens across Europe] Come back virgin Israel to your towns. How long will you wander, My wayward child? Deut. 4:26, Isaiah 63:17-19, Ezekiel 4:4-6, John 7:35
This will happen: a woman will protect a man. Judges 5:7 – a precedent?
The Lord says: When I bring My people back from exile, from all parts of the world, they will live in all the Land and be satisfied. Once more will these words be heard in the Land; God bless you, the home of righteousness, the holy mountain. Ezekiel 39:27
The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will plant Israel and Judah then increase their people and livestock. In the past My intent was to uproot and inflict disaster upon them, now I shall watch over them, to build and plant. Micah 7:11-12, Ezekiel 36:8
It will no longer be said that children will suffer for their parents sins. Only those who sin will be punished for it. Ezekiel 18:20
The days are coming when I shall establish a new covenant with Israel and Judah. It will not be like the one that I made with their forefathers, when I took them out of Egypt, that covenant they broke, though I was patient with them. This will be the new Covenant that I will make with the whole House of Israel, in the latter days; I shall set My Law within them, in their hearts, all of them will know and obey Me. I will forgive and forget their wrongdoing. Ezekiel 37:26, Hebrews 8:6-12
The Lord says: As the sun and stars are set in their courses, as the wind and the sea roars- only if this fixed order changes, only then: could Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me. Micah 7:19-20, Isaiah 14:1-2, Hosea 2:18-23
The days are coming when Jerusalem will be rebuilt in My honour. It will be holy to Me, never again to be demolished. Isaiah 58:12, Micah 7:11, Jeremiah 30:18
Ref: REB. Verses abridged.

Comments:
A scorching wind, a sweeping whirlwind that will destroy the wicked’ - This is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal of Revelation 6:12-17 and Isaiah 30:26a – a massive sunstrike that will affect all the world. Malachi 4:1-3, 2 Peter 3:7
‘God will save His people. At that time…a people will escape the Sword’
– The Lord’s righteous people will be protected on that Day. Isaiah 30:26b, Joel 2:32, Psalms 23:4
‘The Redemption of the Nazarenes’– In Jeremiah 31:6, the word translated ‘watchmen’ is ‘nazar’, meaning to set apart, to consecrate and dedicate for sacred purposes. [ref: Strongs H5144] It is the root word for Nazareth and disciples of Jesus were and still can be, known as Nazarenes. Acts 24:5 So it will be all the righteous Christian believers who will gather and go to live in the Promised Land. Colossians 1:9-20, Psalms 37:29

‘He who scattered Israel, will gather them again. His righteous people, will leave the nations and come, with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. They will worship their God in Jerusalem’. – This is the great promise of the redemption of all God’s people, that is; all true believing Christians, who will come to live in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in peace and prosperity. They will build the 3rd Temple and worship God similar to the ancient days. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 48. God made unconditional promises to the Patriarchs and their descendants remain mostly scattered around the world. Amos 9:9, Ezekiel 34:5+11-16. They are now ‘a vast company’, who now constitute a high proportion of the population in the Western/Christian nations. Their right to ownership of the holy Land will be proven when the title deed in Jeremiah 32:14 is found. But we are told very clearly in the Bible: those with true faith will share the Blessings promised to Abraham. Galatians 3:6-9 & 26-29, Isaiah 56:1-8, John 10:16

‘It will no longer be said: the children will suffer for their parents sins’. - The sins of the forefathers are paid for by our long exile among the nations. Isaiah 27:7-9, Isaiah 40:1-2
‘the Holy mountain’ – the Temple mount. The 3rd Temple will be built and thank offerings made in it, before the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel chapters 40-48, Zechariah 8:9

The great end times story:
This prophecy from the book of the prophet Jeremiah, tells the story of how God will punish the unrighteous by a fire judgement, then how His righteous people will go to live in all of the holy Land. All who by faith, that believe in God and Jesus will receive salvation. John 3:16-18
He will make a new covenant with them, in order for His people: Nazarene Christians, from every race and language, to fulfil their destiny to be “a light to the nations”, and to spread the gospel of the coming Kingdom of God. This will be carried out by the 144,000 selected in Jerusalem. Revelation 14:1-7 The precedent to this is in Luke 10:1-20. Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 66:19
God’s people will live in peace and prosperity, in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in all of that area promised to Abraham so long ago. Genesis 15:18, Ezekiel 34:24-31, Joel 2:23-27

When they are settled and prosperous, the Lord will motivate a Northern confederation to come and attack Beulah, Ezekiel 38:8, Ezekiel 39:1-2. They will be totally wiped out by the Lord, Ezekiel 38:21-22, Ezekiel 39:3-5, Joel 2:20. This is in order to display His glory and power to all the nations. Ezekiel 38:23, Ezekiel 39:21
Meanwhile, the rest of the world will slowly recover from the terrible fires and earthquakes of the Day of the Lord’s wrath and they will form a One World Government, initially controlled by ten Presidents, but another will rise to take dictatorial powers. He will make a seven year peace treaty with Beulah, that not all the people agree with. Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:32
This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age. At the middle of this time, the World Dictator takes over Beulah, Zech. 14:1-2, Rev and forcibly sits in the Temple. Daniel 11:31 This triggers the 3½ year Great Tribulation, the trumpet and bowl judgements. Those Christians who refused any dealings with the ‘beast’, as in Revelation 13:1-5, are taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14
1260 days later, will come the culmination of this age – the physical Return of Jesus, Zechariah 14:6-11, Rev. 19:11-21. He will destroy the armies mustered for battle in Armageddon. Revelation 16:16, Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5 Then, He will reign for 1000 years.
Great will be that time! Ref; logostelos.info
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Nope
Jesus vividly paints a much different picture
mat 25
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

not even a hint of white horses or a destroyed planet with dead bodies.
the scene is total peacetime.

the wedding chamber is ALWAYS in or adjacent to the fathers house.
.....that would be heaven.

vivid,vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture
The Scripture you present is nothing more than a parable of the (Second Coming) in a list of many, not a pre-trib rapture as you claim.

Verse 13 that you present is the (Day and Hour) that no man knows (Second Coming), also seen in Matthew 24:36, and several other places in scripture.

The very same scenario is seen in Luke 13:25-28 below (The door is shut) (I know you not)

(Second Coming, Final Judgement))

Luke 13:25-28KJV
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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1) Combine mat 25
2) The last supper dialogue
And
3) The first miracle at a wedding

"you saved the best for last"
2 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

We can all draw our own conclusions
I see;
The first miracle...it had to be the first because in heaven "the first is last"
The grapes are ripe fruit (NOT BARLEY OR WHEAT)
Wedding....it was a wedding
Both Jesus and the bridegroom are connected to the wine


ok,,,,now,,,,why is any of this significant?

Because,,,and i pondered this for years.....WHY WERE THE 144K FIRSTFRUITS?????(rev 14)

Because firstfruits PRECEDES main harvest. So there has to follow a main harvest.
bingo
Jesus on a cloud gathering ripe fruit.(again rev 14)

We see the jew (the best FRUIT / WINE) (gathered last)
The first wedding dimension Cana / last wedding dimension "CANA".
The jew is the last to come to the feast.
Rev 14 has the 144k in heaven as firstfruits
Those gathered BY Jesus on a cloud are RIPE FRUIT (not wheat or barley harvest)

Rapture DURING THE GT of the jewish believers.
The Jew is the recipient of the gt. (jacobs trouble) That trouble makes messianic Jewish converts(ripe fruit gathered)
There isn't even a (Hint) of a pre-trib rapture seen in the Scripture provided, not a hint.

Absolutely, you bounce around in another world when it comes to eschatology, it's like a fairytale dreamland

You see politics clearly, but eschatology is big smiles.

I fully understand now why you haven't been posting scripture, because there isn't any to support your claims made.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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There isn't even a (Hint) of a pre-trib rapture seen in the Scripture provided, not a hint.

Absolutely, you bounce around in another world when it comes to eschatology, it's like a fairytale dreamland

You see politics clearly, but eschatology is big smiles.

I fully understand now why you haven't been posting scripture, because there isn't any to support your claims made.
I fully understand now why you haven't been posting scripture, because there isn't any to support your claims made
This is an out and out lie.

I already told you once to refrain from silly tactic.

you can not addess my verses.
get real friend.
you have not addressed them.
instead you get on with your false games of lying and generalization.
How old are you?????
"Dreamworld"
"Another world"
"fairytale"

Look, like I said before. either engage or go play your little games with someone else.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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The Scripture you present is nothing more than a parable of the (Second Coming) in a list of many, not a pre-trib rapture as you claim.
I fully understand now why you haven't been posting scripture, because there isn't any to support your claims made.
You are not all there ,are you?
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
There is NOTHING of a wedding there.
See this is what i am talking about.
Your verses neither addresses post or pre trib.

mat 25 is a gathering of the bride.
That gathering has
1) NO WHITE HORSES
2) NO WARTIME/DESROYED EARTH
3) NO HINT OF A ONE WORLD SYSTEM WITH CHRISTIANS ALL DECAPITATED FOR REFUSING THE MARK
4) NO ARMY ARRAYED WITH JESUS ON A WHITE HORSE SHOOTING A DEADLY FLAME FROM HIS MOUTH
5) NOTHING BEING DESTROYED WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS PRESENCE

AND GUESS WHAT?

NIETHER DOES YOUR "DOOR SHUT" VERSES

Sooner or later you will have to face the fact that only one "coming has all that.

Are you there???? Can you actually come to terms that when Jesus comes back on a white horse IT IS COMPLETLY OUT OF YOUR RAPTURE WORK BOOK?
there are NO RAPTURE verses describing the horses,the battle,men dying at the brightness of his coming,and NO RAPTURE VERSES depicting a uturn. (which is completely made up by you guys)

NOTHING...ZERO...NADA

We own that arena friend.
The second coming is not the rapture. That is what you're failing at.
You have been duped friend.
The rapture verses do not in any way resemble the second coming on white horses.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Nope
Jesus vividly paints a much different picture
mat 25
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

not even a hint of white horses or a destroyed planet with dead bodies.
the scene is total peacetime.

the wedding chamber is ALWAYS in or adjacent to the fathers house.
.....that would be heaven.

vivid,vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture
TRUTH7 GIVES US THE RUN DOWN:
"There isn't even a (Hint) of a pre-trib rapture seen in the Scripture provided, not a hint. "


OK sir,tell you what,
lets play out your deal
Supposedly,Jesus is coming to rapture the bride post trib so mat 25 virgin parable gathering is postrib????.
lets see....
He comes ;
On white horses....uh where are they?...nope thats a fail
To destroy the army of the devil....uh..nope cant even make it fit
with His brightness destroying them all....uh ,nope....another fail
With the bride being made into the wife,,,,uh nope ...yet another fail.
With the saints accompanying him.....uh,...nope ...another strike out.

complete total failure of trying to make the second coming after the gt into the rapture.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
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I started this thread to discuss the fact that pastors refuse to preach on the Prophetic Word.

Forums like this one is the only place the prophecies are brought to light and talked about, but sadly; people with very fixed ideas of what they think God will do in the near future, get upset and nasty, when the truths of what the Prophets wrote is presented to them.
They are actually incapable of understanding the truth. Matthew 1:25, 1 Corinthians 1:19-20, Ephesians 4:18, Daniel 12:4-9

Those who do promote and teach false theories, will be shocked and surprised when things don't happen as they expected.
They will also face a more severe Judgment, at the GWT; for their promotion of false theories and doctrines. James 3:1
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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There is NOTHING of a wedding there.
See this is what i am talking about.
Your verses neither addresses post or pre trib.

mat 25 is a gathering of the bride.
That gathering has
1) NO WHITE HORSES
2) NO WARTIME/DESROYED EARTH
3) NO HINT OF A ONE WORLD SYSTEM WITH CHRISTIANS ALL DECAPITATED FOR REFUSING THE MARK
4) NO ARMY ARRAYED WITH JESUS ON A WHITE HORSE SHOOTING A DEADLY FLAME FROM HIS MOUTH
5) NOTHING BEING DESTROYED WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS PRESENCE

AND GUESS WHAT?

NIETHER DOES YOUR "DOOR SHUT" VERSES

Sooner or later you will have to face the fact that only one "coming has all that.

Are you there???? Can you actually come to terms that when Jesus comes back on a white horse IT IS COMPLETLY OUT OF YOUR RAPTURE WORK BOOK?
there are NO RAPTURE verses describing the horses,the battle,men dying at the brightness of his coming,and NO RAPTURE VERSES depicting a uturn. (which is completely made up by you guys)

NOTHING...ZERO...NADA

We own that arena friend.
The second coming is not the rapture. That is what you're failing at.
You have been duped friend.
The rapture verses do not in any way resemble the second coming on white horses.
Matthew Chapter 25 is nothing more than three different parables explaining the exact same event, the (Second Coming) and (Final Judgement)

The parable of the marriage supper below is exactly the same event in parable of the wise and foolish virgins, nothing more than the (Second Coming) and (Final Judgement)

The foolish virgins are comparable to those without wedding garments, as verse 13 below shows the (Final Judgement)

Same Marriage Supper That Ends In Final Judgement, Not A Pre-Trib Rapture As You Falsely Claim

Matthew 22:1-14KJV

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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I started this thread to discuss the fact that pastors refuse to preach on the Prophetic Word.

Forums like this one is the only place the prophecies are brought to light and talked about, but sadly; people with very fixed ideas of what they think God will do in the near future, get upset and nasty, when the truths of what the Prophets wrote is presented to them.
They are actually incapable of understanding the truth. Matthew 1:25, 1 Corinthians 1:19-20, Ephesians 4:18, Daniel 12:4-9

Those who do promote and teach false theories, will be shocked and surprised when things don't happen as they expected.
They will also face a more severe Judgment, at the GWT; for their promotion of false theories and doctrines. James 3:1
I Agree, like falsely teaching Jesus Christ returns to earth, hanging out with mortal humans, performing animal blood sacrifice for sin
 

GraceAndTruth

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But 1 Thessalonians 4:17 does NOT say people who are alive and remain, [After the Great Tribulation] will be taken to heaven. It says they will be gathered to where Jesus is; initially in the clouds and then to Jerusalem. Paralleled by Matthew 24:30-31
It is a serious addition to that prophecy to think it means going to heaven, not to mention how illogical it is , as Jesus has come down from heaven as verse 16 clearly says.

2/ No, I believe the end times events will happen just as the Prophets have described.
The next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal; a worldwide disaster that will set the scene for all the rest, from Revelation 7 to 19:11, to take place as Written.

3/ And we are One people, John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6
There is no separate Jewish redemption so as the Church can skive off to heaven, while the Jews get Tribulated. That idea is a lie upon the 'rapture' fable.
1. There won't be any of the old Jerusalem after the rapture, Christ comes at the LAST trump, the last trump signals THE END.
There will be no Jerusalem because after Christ comes for His people the earth will be DESTROYED with intense heat 2 Peter 3:10-13
The NEW Jerusalem will be in heaven.


2. Yes they certainly were fulfilled exactly. WE have every proof, for the earlier dating of Revelation, the identity of the beast, the idenity of the 5 kings, Olivet discourse and the history of the events by Flavius Josephus to show the fulfillment. We now look for His coming. Maranatha.

3. In the new covenant Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the church/Israel. No separation, I was not aware of the position you stated that Jews (those born again) were left behind. We are ALL one in Christ Jesus.
 

Truth7t7

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1. There won't be any of the old Jerusalem after the rapture, Christ comes at the LAST trump, the last trump signals THE END.
There will be no Jerusalem because after Christ comes for His people the earth will be DESTROYED with intense heat 2 Peter 3:10-13
The NEW Jerusalem will be in heaven.


2. Yes they certainly were fulfilled exactly. WE have every proof, for the earlier dating of Revelation, the identity of the beast, the idenity of the 5 kings, Olivet discourse and the history of the events by Flavius Josephus to show the fulfillment. We now look for His coming. Maranatha.

3. In the new covenant Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the church/Israel. No separation, I was not aware of the position you stated that Jews (those born again) were left behind. We are ALL one in Christ Jesus.
Revelation dosent have a earlier date of Revelation as preterist suggest, Iranaeus openly stated John was seen in prison at the (End) of Emperor Domitians reign, that ended in 96AD

(Yosef ben Matityahu AKA Flavius Josephus) was a traitor to his people the Jews, as he defected from his commanding military ranks and ran to support the Roman's in their (Propaganda Machine), he was a multiple adulterer, basking in the wives and palaces given to him by the Emperors
 

Keras

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Aug 9, 2020
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I Agree, like falsely teaching Jesus Christ returns to earth, hanging out with mortal humans, performing animal blood sacrifice for sin
He did it before, He will do it all again.
1. There won't be any of the old Jerusalem after the rapture, Christ comes at the LAST trump, the last trump signals THE END.
There will be no Jerusalem because after Christ comes for His people the earth will be DESTROYED with intense heat 2 Peter 3:10-13
The NEW Jerusalem will be in heaven.


2. Yes they certainly were fulfilled exactly. WE have every proof, for the earlier dating of Revelation, the identity of the beast, the idenity of the 5 kings, Olivet discourse and the history of the events by Flavius Josephus to show the fulfillment. We now look for His coming. Maranatha.

3. In the new covenant Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the church/Israel. No separation, I was not aware of the position you stated that Jews (those born again) were left behind. We are ALL one in Christ Jesus.
1/ There won't be any of the existing Jerusalem left after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5
The new Jerusalem comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1

2/ Revelation from 6:12 until the Return in 19:11 remains unfulfilled. None of what happened in 70 AD fits Revelation.

3/ No one is escapes or is 'left behind'. All face the testing times as prophesied. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 10:11-13
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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Revelation doesent have a earlier date of Revelation as preterist suggest, Iranaeus openly stated John was seen in prison at the (End) of Emperor Domitians reign, that ended in 96AD

(Yosef ben Matityahu AKA Flavius Josephus) was a traitor to his people the Jews, as he defected from his commanding military ranks and ran to support the Roman's in their (Propaganda Machine), he was a multiple adulterer, basking in the wives and palaces given to him by the Emperors
Never know what you will come up with next. I'd like to look over your reference material if you are willing to share.

I had to laugh at your reference to Iranaeus about John in prison......Iranaeus wasn't born UNTIL 160AD.

And John was not in a prison (building) he was on the island of Patmos (no prison building but there is a house that John supposedly lived in. Patmos was used for political prisoners. You can visit Patmos with Google Earth.

Rev 17 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. Five fallen, the first five being Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius; one is: Nero, and one yet to come for short time. Galba, reigned for 10 months and 10 days. These are the only kings that fit using the 5 fallen. Julius was the first of the Caesars of the Roman empire. Nero began the persecution of the Jews and was known as the beast among the Jews.

Some have chosen Domitian with Nerva following but the Jewish wars were long over by then so would have no reason banishing John......and Nerva reigned for about 15 months, a short time but not as short as Galba.

I need to shorten this up so I won't go on.
Even as aggravating as false statements can be, I admit a get a laugh at some of them. Yours have been dillies.

Josephus actual history can be found in any enclyclopaedia
 

Truth7t7

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The new Jerusalem comes to the earth. Revelation 21:1
Your suggestion that the (New Jerusalem) comes down to this existing Earth is seeing pinocchio's nose growing again >>>>>>>>>>

The New Jerusalem comes down to the New Heaven And Earth, this existing Earth is gone, passed away, behold I make all things new!

God (Himself) will dwell in New Jerusalem!

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Never know what you will come up with next. I'd like to look over your reference material if you are willing to share.

I had to laugh at your reference to Iranaeus about John in prison......Iranaeus wasn't born UNTIL 160AD.

And John was not in a prison (building) he was on the island of Patmos (no prison building but there is a house that John supposedly lived in. Patmos was used for political prisoners. You can visit Patmos with Google Earth.

Rev 17 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. Five fallen, the first five being Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius; one is: Nero, and one yet to come for short time. Galba, reigned for 10 months and 10 days. These are the only kings that fit using the 5 fallen. Julius was the first of the Caesars of the Roman empire. Nero began the persecution of the Jews and was known as the beast among the Jews.

Some have chosen Domitian with Nerva following but the Jewish wars were long over by then so would have no reason banishing John......and Nerva reigned for about 15 months, a short time but not as short as Galba.

I need to shorten this up so I won't go on.
Even as aggravating as false statements can be, I admit a get a laugh at some of them. Yours have been dillies.

Josephus actual history can be found in any enclyclopaedia
Correction, The Actual Revelation To John, Not His Person.

Domitian's Reign, 81-96AD

Polycarp was a disciple of John who saw the Revelation, Iranaeus was a disciple of Polycarp.

What Irenaeus Actually Said

Here is the oft-referenced quote from Irenaeus, the context of which is a discussion about the number and name of the Antichrist:
“Had there been any need for his name to be openly announced at the present time, it would have been stated by the one who saw the actual revelation. For it was seen not a long time back, but almost in my own lifetime, at the end of Domitian’s reign.” (Against Heresies, 5.30.3)​

The phrase “it was seen” is translating a single Greek word: ἑωράθη. And this word is commonly taken to refer back to “the actual revelation” which had just been mentioned. Thus, Irenaeus would be stating that John saw his apocalyptic vision at the end of Domitian’s reign, and this would support the later date for Revelation (late-90s).
 

GraceAndTruth

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Correction, The Actual Revelation To John, Not His Person.

Domitian's Reign, 81-96AD

Polycarp was a disciple of John who saw the Revelation, Iranaeus was a disciple of Polycarp.

What Irenaeus Actually Said

Here is the oft-referenced quote from Irenaeus, the context of which is a discussion about the number and name of the Antichrist:
“Had there been any need for his name to be openly announced at the present time, it would have been stated by the one who saw the actual revelation. For it was seen not a long time back, but almost in my own lifetime, at the end of Domitian’s reign.” (Against Heresies, 5.30.3)​

The phrase “it was seen” is translating a single Greek word: ἑωράθη. And this word is commonly taken to refer back to “the actual revelation” which had just been mentioned. Thus, Irenaeus would be stating that John saw his apocalyptic vision at the end of Domitian’s reign, and this would support the later date for Revelation (late-90s).
that isn't a definitive statement by Irenaeus at all, it refers to a person, not the Revelation. I do not believe you read all of Against Herisies.......this gleaning of other people's opinions is not impressive I would like the reference to which of the AH books that wording is in.

also what did you think you were correcting?
"Correction, The Actual Revelation To John, Not His Person" <---- your comment (I have no clue what you refer to)
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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that isn't a definitive statement by Irenaeus at all, it refers to a person, not the Revelation. I do not believe you read all of Against Herisies.......this gleaning of other people's opinions is not impressive I would like the reference to which of the AH books that wording is in.

also what did you think you were correcting?
"Correction, The Actual Revelation To John, Not His Person" <---- your comment (I have no clue what you refer to)
Once Again, I Referred to John Being Seen By Ireaneus I was wrong, as he referred to the (Vision) of Revelation being seen towards the end of Emperor Domitians reign 81-96AD

The Revelation wasn't seen pre 70 AD as preterist Falsely claim.

Polycarp was a disciple of John who saw and wrote the Revelation, Ireaneus was a disciple of Polycarp.

(The exact statement below)

Early Christian Writings

Ireaneus: Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 30.3

"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign."
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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Once Again, I Referred to John Being Seen By Ireaneus I was wrong, as he referred to the (Vision) of Revelation being seen towards the end of Emperor Domitians reign 81-96AD

The Revelation wasn't seen pre 70 AD as preterist Falsely claim.

Polycarp was a disciple of John who saw and wrote the Revelation, Ireaneus was a disciple of Polycarp.

(The exact statement below)

Early Christian Writings

Ireaneus: Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 30.3

"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign."
You like to skip over your past mis-statements and try to slip into a different topic, as you did with your response to my statements on the earlier date for Revelation. Iraeneus, on his OPINION of antichrist, which is wrong and while we like the early church fathers for some points of history, customs, etc, they are NOT scripture NOR are they authorative as expositors OF scripture.

Your 'red herring' of tossing in that antichrist nonsense did nothing to address the subject of the early date for Revelation. You refuted nothing of what I wrote, except with your false statement you attributed to Iraeneus and you later admitted you were wrong.
So back to square 1.