Discussion on the End Times

[Truth7t7]

I'm not sure where you came in on my posts to Truth7t7 to which Ahwatukee added comments, but posts about antichrist(s) was started by Truth, I was not in agreement with him, so the anti thing began. We started out on the earlier dating of Revelation. Truth can't stick to a topic without wandering all over the place, though he means well.

If you are trying to instruct me, I need to know what you are trying to tell me.
However, your post of 'revelatory enlightenment' just sent a big red flag on your "enlightenment".

When posters use the term (The Antichrist) you know exactly who/what everybody is referring to,you use the (Name Game) and move to distract from this future human man, in quoting John regarding the general spirit of antichrist, those who deny Jesus Christ

I have told you straight forward, there are many names in the bible used to describe this future human man as seen below, the general term to represent this future human man is (The Antichrist) stop playing the name games as if your ignorant of these facts.

(The Antichrist)

Examples:

1. Daniel, (The Little Horn) Dan 8:9

2. Paul, (That Man Of Sin) 2 Thess 2:3

3. Paul, (The Son Of Perdition) 2 Thess 2:3

4. John (The Beast) Rev 13:1-6

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not sure where you came in on my posts to Truth7t7 to which Ahwatukee added comments, but posts about antichrist(s) was started by Truth, I was not in agreement with him, so the anti thing began. We started out on the earlier dating of Revelation. Truth can't stick to a topic without wandering all over the place, though he means well.

If you are trying to instruct me, I need to know what you are trying to tell me.
However, your post of 'revelatory enlightenment' just sent a big red flag on your "enlightenment".

Your claim of a date earlier than 70AD in the vision and book of Revelation has been refuted, there it is again

Ireaneus Below Soundly Refutes The Preterist Claim Of A Pre 70AD Date Of The Revelation, "Destroyed"!

It's a fact Ireanaeu was speaking of the (Vision) being seen at the end of Emperor Domitians reign, that was from 81-96AD

(For "That" Was Seen) the (Vision)

You will closely note, no personal pronouns are used (He, Him) to even hint at suggesting it was John seen.

The Revelation wasn't seen pre 70 AD as preterist Falsely claim.

Polycarp was a disciple of John who saw and wrote the Revelation, Ireaneus was a disciple of Polycarp.

(The exact statement below)

Early Christian Writings

Ireaneus: Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 30.3

"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign."

 

[Absolutely]

This is interesting about the last trump.

So many,many pointers to a pretrib rapture.
Such harmony


Yom Teruah – ‘Day of Awakening Blast’ / Jewish belief is that the resurrection of the dead will occur on the feast of Trumpets.

The Last Trumpet – On this day, there are 100 trumpet blasts. The final, long, and most significant trumpet blast is called ‘the last trump’.

Yom Zikaron – ‘Day of Remembrance’ / A day on which the chosen people remember God, and God remembers them.

Yom Hadin – ‘Day of Judgment’ / God opens the books on that day and judges the righteous and the wicked according to what they had done.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Then Jesus should have been real upset when peter ,through revelation of the spirit,identified Christ as the messiah.
The entire nt is dependent on a spiritual hook up with revelation.

I know none that got saved mentally or mentally understanding a verse.

Paul was set aside and taught of the Holy Spirit.
Paul said what he recieved was not of man but through REVELATION of /by the Holy Spirit.
I mean are you really against council with God? (Revelatory information)
I speak...God speaks back.
That is red flag????

I thought that you meant that your 'revelatory information' was some esoteric message gleaned by you out of the atmosphere.
Anyway your misconceptions are not my problem.
Of course the scriptures are discerned by the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

When posters use the term (The Antichrist) you know exactly who/what everybody is referring to,you use the (Name Game) and move to distract from this future human man, in quoting John regarding the general spirit of antichrist, those who deny Jesus Christ

I have told you straight forward, there are many names in the bible used to describe this future human man as seen below, the general term to represent this future human man is (The Antichrist) stop playing the name games as if your ignorant of these facts.

(The Antichrist)

Examples:

1. Daniel, (The Little Horn) Dan 8:9

2. Paul, (That Man Of Sin) 2 Thess 2:3

3. Paul, (The Son Of Perdition) 2 Thess 2:3

4. John (The Beast) Rev 13:1-6

1 The little horn is Antiocus Epiphanes in Daniel.....this is not the same little horn that comes out of Rome (the Caesars)
Even Premill agree on that. I have no idea what 'mill' you are and you never seem to want to reveal it. ok by me.

2 By assigning these names to one man you are losing the essense of the word antichrist. There are many antichrists in the world today and alway have been. And I"ve told you that those names can be applied to any antichrist. You STILL have not given ONE verse that says there is ONE particular antichrist. With a Capital A.....unlike John's small a's.

3 The beast is definitely antichrist(s). So was Judas. So were Hymenaeus and Alexander. All were antichrist
Why were they antichrist? Because they spoke against Christ.

The beast is identified in Rev. 13: 1-18 and Rev 17: 1-13 as both a person and a nation.

 

[Truth7t7]

1 The little horn is Antiocus Epiphanes in Daniel.....this is not the same little horn that comes out of Rome (the Caesars)
Even Premill agree on that. I have no idea what 'mill' you are and you never seem to want to reveal it. ok by me.

2 By assigning these names to one man you are losing the essense of the word antichrist. There are many antichrists in the world today and alway have been. And I"ve told you that those names can be applied to any antichrist. You STILL have not given ONE verse that says there is ONE particular antichrist. With a Capital A.....unlike John's small a's.

3 The beast is definitely antichrist(s). So was Judas. So were Hymenaeus and Alexander. All were antichrist
Why were they antichrist? Because they spoke against Christ.

The beast is identified in Rev. 13: 1-18 and Rev 17: 1-13 as both a person and a nation.

Daniel's vision of the (Little Horn) is to be fulfilled in the (Future) at the time of (The End)

Antiochus Epiphanies in 175BC isnt the (Little Horn) nor is this the time of the end, Big Smiles!

Perhaps you need to circular file the false teachings of Boettner, Riddlebarger, and Sproul

Daniel 8:17KJV
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[Truth7t7]

1 The little horn is Antiocus Epiphanes in Daniel.....this is not the same little horn that comes out of Rome (the Caesars)
Even Premill agree on that. I have no idea what 'mill' you are and you never seem to want to reveal it. ok by me.

2 By assigning these names to one man you are losing the essense of the word antichrist. There are many antichrists in the world today and alway have been. And I"ve told you that those names can be applied to any antichrist. You STILL have not given ONE verse that says there is ONE particular antichrist. With a Capital A.....unlike John's small a's.

3 The beast is definitely antichrist(s). So was Judas. So were Hymenaeus and Alexander. All were antichrist
Why were they antichrist? Because they spoke against Christ.

The beast is identified in Rev. 13: 1-18 and Rev 17: 1-13 as both a person and a nation.

I have clearly shown you that I believe in the ahmillennial position, regarding a future Millennium on this earth.

Jesus returns immediately after the future great tribulation, in fire and Final Judgement, dissolving the earth by fire, as the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity.

There will be no future Millennium upon this earth, it will be dissolved by fire.

Is where we disagree, is Scripture teaches there will be a (Future) human man that will be the role seen below, this figure isnt represented throughout history by Antiochus Antiochus Epiphanies, The Roman Emperors, or different popes or whomever as you teach and believe, he's the same figure with different names, and will be (Future)

Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast

When this (Future) human man is revealed, the (Future) Great Tribulation starts, you believe this happened in 70AD, and has continued in tribulations since.

When this future human man is revealed,the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chapter 11 are revealed, literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues,upon a literal world, you don't believe this is future (Literal) but symbolic.

There you have my belief, and what I see you believe, correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Keras]

There you have my belief, and what I see you believe, correct me if I'm wrong?

I have tried that and you simply reject the Bible truths presented.
Only as the fireballs and earthquakes of the Day the Lord sends the fiery wrath; strike the earth, will you and all the other people with wrong and unbiblical beliefs, finally understand the truths of Prophecy.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

3 minutes ago
#209
Truth7t7 said:
[and I have posted my replies to his statements in RED]

I have clearly shown you that I believe in the ahmillennial position, regarding a future Millennium on this earth.

Jesus returns immediately after the future great tribulation, in fire and Final Judgement, dissolving the earth by fire, as the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity.

There will be no future Millennium upon this earth, it will be dissolved by fire.
Is where we disagree, is Scripture teaches there will be a (Future) human man that will be the role seen below, this figure isnt represented throughout history by Antiochus Antiochus Epiphanies, The Roman Emperors, or different popes or whomever as you teach and believe, he's the same figure with different names, and will be (Future)
Daniel is very clear about who Antiochus is and so am I
Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast
everyone against Christ is antichirst.......there is no THE Antichrist (not found in ANY scripture)
When this (Future) human man is revealed, the (Future) Great Tribulation starts, you believe this happened in 70AD, and has continued in tribulations since.
The tribulation began with the Romans marching on Jerusalem, lasted 3 1/2 years, ending when the temple was destroyed
Approximately from 66AD to mid-summer of 70AD.
When this future human man is revealed,the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chapter 11 are revealed, literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues,upon a literal world, you don't believe this is future (Literal) but symbolic.
I don't believe in any type of future human to be revealed
There you have my belief, and what I see you believe, correct me if I'm wrong?
Is where we disagree, is Scripture teaches there will be a (Future) human man that will be the role seen below, this figure isnt represented throughout history by Antiochus Antiochus Epiphanies, The Roman Emperors, or different popes or whomever as you teach and believe, he's the same figure with different names, and will be (Future)
Daniel is very clear about who Antiochus is and so am I
Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast
everyone against Christ is antichirst.......there is no THE Antichrist (not found in ANY scripture)
When this (Future) human man is revealed, the (Future) Great Tribulation starts, you believe this happened in 70AD, and has continued in tribulations since.
The tribulation began with the Romans marching on Jerusalem, lasted 3 1/2 years, ending when the temple was destroyed
Approximately from 66AD to mid-summer of 70AD.
When this future human man is revealed,the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chapter 11 are revealed, literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues,upon a literal world, you don't believe this is future (Literal) but symbolic.
I don't believe in any type of future human to be revealed such as you propose as THE ANTICHRIST
Those two witness' .....the verses following clearly state that they are the two olive trees and two lampstands
There you have my belief, and what I see you believe, correct me if I'm wrong?
Those are my corrections. Plus probably about 200 more. I doubt if you are really interested in my corrections

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Truth7t7:

Let me make a couple of my positions clear. I may have mis-spoke so I do not want you to define my beliefs for me.
early date for Revelation
'great trib' prophecy fulfilled 66-mid 70AD...lasting 3 1/2 years
temple destroyed
time of silence
Jesus comes for His beloved at the LAST trump, (of those 7 trumps)
The earth is destoyed immediately after by intense heat.

I've never heard of the AHmillenial position....is that where everyone reads Revelation and says aHHHHH. [in your typo at top of your post]

We disagree on a lot. Like everything.

Antiochus, Horn, Perdtion, Beast, Antichrist.....and so on.
Antiochus Epiphanes Profaned the Temple, December 16, 156 BC
You have no idea what I believe......Amillenian says there is NO millenial reign.
That is what the A stand for.....zero/nada/none as in amoral means no morals

 

[Truth7t7]

I have tried that and you simply reject the Bible truths presented.
Only as the fireballs and earthquakes of the Day the Lord sends the fiery wrath; strike the earth, will you and all the other people with wrong and unbiblical beliefs, finally understand the truths of Prophecy.

I Agree, The Lords Going To Send Fiery Wrath And Strike The Earth, Read It Again!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast
everyone against Christ is antichirst.......there is no THE Antichrist (not found in ANY scripture)

Just as the word (Trinity) isnt used in the Holy Bible, but you know well what it means when people use it.

The vast majority of Christian's and Non-Christians use the words (The Antichrist) to represent, Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast

You continue to use the name game, in complete distraction, knowing exactly what posters are projecting.

Do you use the name game, when people use the word (Trinity) or (Rapture) not found in the scripture, Big Smiles!

(Trinity) God The Father, God The Son,
God The Holy Spirit

(The Antichrist) Little Horn, Man Of Sin, Son Of Perdition, The Beast

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't believe in any type of future human to be revealed such as you propose as THE ANTICHRIST
Those two witness' .....the verses following clearly state that they are the two olive trees and two lampstands

1.)Please Explain Your Two Olive Trees And Lampstands?

2.) Do you believe the plagues brought by Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as seen in (Exodus) were literal?

3.) If Yes, do you believe the Hebrews were protected against these plagues as shown?

4.) Below in Rev 11:3-15 we see the two witnesses having power over plagues, it mentions (Rain) and (Waters) to blood, just like in Egypt, how do you explain this?

5.)It mentions these two witnesses having bodies that are killed, laying in a street, it mentions a world watching, sending gifts one to another, how do you explain this?

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

1.)Please Explain Your Two Olive Trees And Lampstands?

2.) Do you believe the plagues brought by Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as seen in (Exodus) were literal?

3.) If Yes, do you believe the Hebrews were protected against these plagues as shown?

4.) Below in Rev 11:3-15 we see the two witnesses having power over plagues, it mentions (Rain) and (Waters) to blood, just like in Egypt, how do you explain this?

5.)It mentions these two witnesses having bodies that are killed, laying in a street, it mentions a world watching, sending gifts one to another, how do you explain this?

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Been there and done that with you......time to shake the dust.

 

[Truth7t7]

Been there and done that with you......time to shake the dust.

As expected, unable to defend your claims and belief

Yes the events in Revelation 11:3-15 below are seen in the "Literal", to teach this to be symbolic has no argument as you have shown.

Questions:

1.)Please Explain Your Two Olive Trees And Lampstands?

2.) Do you believe the plagues brought by Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as seen in (Exodus) were literal?

3.) If Yes, do you believe the Hebrews were protected against these plagues as shown?

4.) Below in Rev 11:3-15 we see the two witnesses having power over plagues, it mentions (Rain) and (Waters) to blood, just like in Egypt, how do you explain this?

5.)It mentions these two witnesses having bodies that are killed, laying in a street, it mentions a world watching, sending gifts one to another, how do you explain this?

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

As expected, unable to defend your claims and belief

Yes the events in Revelation 11:3-15 below are seen in the "Literal", to teach this to be symbolic has no argument as you have shown.

Questions:

1.)Please Explain Your Two Olive Trees And Lampstands?

2.) Do you believe the plagues brought by Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as seen in (Exodus) were literal?

3.) If Yes, do you believe the Hebrews were protected against these plagues as shown?

4.) Below in Rev 11:3-15 we see the two witnesses having power over plagues, it mentions (Rain) and (Waters) to blood, just like in Egypt, how do you explain this?

5.)It mentions these two witnesses having bodies that are killed, laying in a street, it mentions a world watching, sending gifts one to another, how do you explain this?



15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

I took some of your post out to save space.......your full post is where is always has been

Read my posts #209 and #210 I ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEN SOME. You will only disagree with everything so there is no point. I have historical evidence for every woe. I was thinking that if I answer any more of your posts it will be "woe is me"

 

[Truth7t7]

Read my posts #209 and #210 I ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AND THEN SOME. You will only disagree with everything so there is no point. I have historical evidence for every woe. I was thinking that if I answer any more of your posts it will be "woe is me"

You haven't answered or explained your views on the questions below as you suggest, a false claim.

As expected, unable to defend your claims and belief

Yes the events in Revelation 11:3-15 below are seen in the "Literal", to teach this to be symbolic has no argument as you have shown.

Questions:

1.)Please Explain Your Two Olive Trees And Lampstands?

2.) Do you believe the plagues brought by Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as seen in (Exodus) were literal?

3.) If Yes, do you believe the Hebrews were protected against these plagues as shown?

4.) Below in Rev 11:3-15 we see the two witnesses having power over plagues, it mentions (Rain) and (Waters) to blood, just like in Egypt, how do you explain this?

5.)It mentions these two witnesses having bodies that are killed, laying in a street, it mentions a world watching, sending gifts one to another, how do you explain this?

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Dino246]

Popcorn anyone?

 

[Happy2020]

Maybe some wine and popcorn. I really could use that.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Truth7t7:

Let me make a couple of my positions clear. I may have mis-spoke so I do not want you to define my beliefs for me.
early date for Revelation
'great trib' prophecy fulfilled 66-mid 70AD...lasting 3 1/2 years
temple destroyed

The problem with your claim of the great tribulation already taking place in 66-70 ad is that, there is zero fulfillment of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which must take place before the Lord can return to the earth to end the age. Below is what the Lord inserts at the pouring out of the sixth bowl judgment:

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed"

In Matthew 24 Jesus also gave the readers proof of how to tell the false Messiah's that people would claim are out in the desert or in a secret room when He said, "Just as the lightning that shines in the east can be seen in the west, so also shall the coming of the Son of Man be." We know from Matt.24:30 that the people of the earth will see the Lord arriving on the clouds with power and great glory. This is how the people of the earth will know the difference between the false Messiah's and the the true Messiah. All that said, to claim that the Lord came and ended the age in 70 AD would go directly against Jesus warning about false Messiah's.

In addition, John was banished to the island of Patmos during the reign of Domian who ruled from 81 to 96 AD, which would put the writing of Revelation taking place within those dates and which would make the events of Revelation future events, not past events.

time of silence
Jesus comes for His beloved at the LAST trump, (of those 7 trumps)
The earth is destoyed immediately after by intense heat.

Your identifying the "half an hour of silence" as representing when Jesus comes for church, is based on pure conjecture. For there is nothing that ties that half hour of silence to the event of Jesus gathering His church.

Also, the reference to the "Last Trump" which Paul mentions in I Corinthians 15:52 regarding the gathering of the church, has nothing to do with the trumpet judgments. The "last trumpet" is a blessing for those in Christ who are alive at the time when He gathers His church, where the seven trumpets are part of God's wrath. What you are doing is erroneously interpreting the "Last trumpet" in I Corinthians 15:52 and linking it to the angel with the seventh trumpet of those trumpet judgments.

I is obvious that you have been reading the false teachings men on this subject, for we have seen these teaching over and over again which basically comes from Amillennialists and mostly from full Preterists.

Antiochus, Horn, Perdtion, Beast, Antichrist.....and so on.
Antiochus Epiphanes Profaned the Temple, December 16, 156 BC

You are correct in that Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple in 156 BC. However, this cannot be referring to the abomination of desolation, because Jesus spoke of it as a future event, not past. What Antiochus did is a shadow of what the coming antichrist is going to do when he has that image set up in the future temple.

You have no idea what I believe......Amillenian says there is NO millenial reign.
That is what the A stand for.....zero/nada/none as in amoral means no morals

The millennial period will be a literal thousand years, which will begin when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It has nothing to do with "no morals." It means 'no thousand years.' Yet, Revelation mentions "a thousand years" six times from verses 1 thru 7 in chapter 20. Since the context refers to it as being a literal thousand years, there is no reason to interpret it as being symbolic or allegorical. For scripture states that Satan will be bound in the Abyss for a thousand years, that he will not be able to deceive the3 nations during that thousand years and that he will be released at the end of the thousand years. And the great tribulation saints who are resurrected will rule with Jesus during that thousand years. Therefore it is a literal thousand year period. To interpret it otherwise is to distort the scripture.

Because scripture states that believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath or any wrath, the church must then be gathered prior to the opening of the first seal which initiates God's wrath. Rev.4:1 is a prophetic allusion to when the church is gathered in the chronological order of Revelation.