Disproving Biblical Infallibility 101
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Fine then- lets get elementary. Here is Matthews account:
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
And here we have John:
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when, it was yet dark, unto, the sepulchre, and, seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre..
Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself..
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when, it was yet dark, unto, the sepulchre, and, seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre..
Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself..
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
The god who gives you the presence of 'A' holy spirit...
So what is your one god like who gives you the presence of 'A' holy spirit and not 'the' Holy Spirit.
Also, how can you preach the gospel if you can't trust it's very words - since according to you the bible is not trustworthy? and that brings us..to what gospel is it.... ?
We have and others have with you aswell...but since you have set yourself as an authority over scripture you cannot allow scripture to bear down on you.
You certainly can't be believing in The one True Saviour as you say his words are contradictory..I think my conversation with you is over.
But I will be praying for you DisciplePAG, that you come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and learn to love His word.
You certainly can't be believing in The one True Saviour as you say his words are contradictory..I think my conversation with you is over.
But I will be praying for you DisciplePAG, that you come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and learn to love His word.
First of all, the grammar of the Greek means "Now there had been" and is clear from the parallel accounts of Mk 16:2-6;
Lk 24:1-7; Jn 20:1.
All of the above occurring before Jn 20:1 below.
2-18 of Jn occurs here.
1-4 of Matthew occur here.
5-9 of Matthew occur here.
Not every detail of every event is reported by every NT writer, for even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
What was written was written under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit that we might believe, not that we might have a forensic accounting of Jesus life, from birth to ascension.
Lk 24:1-7; Jn 20:1.
All of the above occurring before Jn 20:1 below.
2-18 of Jn occurs here.
1-4 of Matthew occur here.
5-9 of Matthew occur here.
Not every detail of every event is reported by every NT writer, for even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
What was written was written under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit that we might believe, not that we might have a forensic accounting of Jesus life, from birth to ascension.
I agree for sure and at the end of the day all 4 gospels give the complete (picture) of what has taken place....there are no contradictions when all things are taken into account....different writers, different levels of education, different backgrounds, different perspectives etc........the just shall live by FAITH....the simplicity that is found in Christ is to simply BELIEVE IT as the truth is contained therein!
Reading the OP was the first time I have come across this theory so I am still working my way through the ramifications of it.
In the past, I accepted the party line, that is, that we have four witnesses of the same event which will result in various observations depending on the person as in for example the witnesses of a road accident.
I don't accept that explanation now. We are not talking about uninvolved witnesses of an incident who have not colluded. These man were very emotionally involved in the events which had taken place over the previous days. They would be in hightened state of arousal and noticing details and looking for meaning regarding what had happened to their Master.
After the resurrection event they would have gone over every detail minutely together as things had to be passed on orally generally and I am sure that Jews were meticulous over details. So they gathered and would have asked each other what they noticed and would, I believe have worked out a full narrative as they looked for meanings and fulfillment of prophecies.
So there was a worked over narrative as exact as possible which would have been agreed over and passed on. But when it came to putting it into writing years later, the stories vary: There are two men/angels in the tomb; there was just one: It happened in the dark; it was dawn: Only two women came to the tomb; one woman came and so on.
I think that it is possible that the texts may have been corrupted. Any doubts over the sequence of events would, I think, shed doubts over the testimony as the details would have been so important to the people of that time period.
These men were supposedly reporting on something very very important and God would not be allowing them to depend on their human memory or observation skills. He has communicated to men very minute details about the temple construction for example.
There is more to this than is supposed and it really shows the integrity of those who not just reject it out of hand but attack the OP. Aren't we truth seekers?
In the past, I accepted the party line, that is, that we have four witnesses of the same event which will result in various observations depending on the person as in for example the witnesses of a road accident.
I don't accept that explanation now. We are not talking about uninvolved witnesses of an incident who have not colluded. These man were very emotionally involved in the events which had taken place over the previous days. They would be in hightened state of arousal and noticing details and looking for meaning regarding what had happened to their Master.
After the resurrection event they would have gone over every detail minutely together as things had to be passed on orally generally and I am sure that Jews were meticulous over details. So they gathered and would have asked each other what they noticed and would, I believe have worked out a full narrative as they looked for meanings and fulfillment of prophecies.
So there was a worked over narrative as exact as possible which would have been agreed over and passed on. But when it came to putting it into writing years later, the stories vary: There are two men/angels in the tomb; there was just one: It happened in the dark; it was dawn: Only two women came to the tomb; one woman came and so on.
I think that it is possible that the texts may have been corrupted. Any doubts over the sequence of events would, I think, shed doubts over the testimony as the details would have been so important to the people of that time period.
These men were supposedly reporting on something very very important and God would not be allowing them to depend on their human memory or observation skills. He has communicated to men very minute details about the temple construction for example.
There is more to this than is supposed and it really shows the integrity of those who not just reject it out of hand but attack the OP. Aren't we truth seekers?