Do Christians who commit suicide go to Heaven?

[Braveheart47]

As I started to read this thread I am shocked by the lack of understanding of Grace. No God does not want us to commit suicide, but he also doesn't want us to gossip, or be envious, or hurt each other and we all do those things. As Paul says, if Jeus didn't die to cover ALL sin, then it was in vain. And Jesus death DOES cover all sin.

And in terms of saying you are not a christian if you want ot commit suicide, again, what lack of love and mercy for another human, and misguided advice that is not biblical. Paul came to a place in his life when he felt he would rather die than be in the place he was. he says he was in sorry "to the point of death". Life sucks sometimes and it gets very hard. And some people suffer from mental illness. there ar many reasons for someone wanting to die. We could get into the whole debate about those who want to die because they are in great physical pain etc. But don't want to do that here.

God loves you, no matter what you choose....but suicide IS a PERMANANT solution to a no permanant problem. There are counselors and meds and all kinds of recourses for anyone in need of help. Its not a sin to feel so bad , but please find some alternative first.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Braveheart, I understand God loves us no matter what we do or choose, and the blood of Christ does cover all sin. However the way you phrased the statement with in you post I must ask are you a universalist (do you think every one is going to Heaven no matter what)? and if not, does that mean you do not believe the blood of Jesus covers all sin? and if so, then why would you make an exeption for someone who murders themselves with out repentance over someone who has killed another person and never repented?

 

[NazariteNation]

Nice job avoiding the question. Have a good time trying to keep all of God's commands perfectly for the rest of your life which is impossible to do because of our sinful flesh.

Actually Jeesus does NOT expect us to live out our lives in sinless perfection. No man is perfect and that exactly why He sacrificed himself on the cross. However, Jesus does ask us to live by His example PERFECTLY (presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice) without wavering. This is the mandate of the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Braveheart47]

how come my stuff didn't post?

 

[Braveheart47]

never mind...

 

[Braveheart47]

No I am not a universalist. Only those who choose the gift of salvation go to heaven. So if a christian commits suicide , its covered under the blood.

 

[Braveheart47]

Actually Jeesus does NOT expect us to live out our lives in sinless perfection. No man is perfect and that exactly why He sacrificed himself on the cross. However, Jesus does ask us to live by His example PERFECTLY (presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice) without wavering. This is the mandate of the Sermon on the Mount.

No, he does not ask us to live by his example PERFECTLY, then we would be perfect and we wouldn't need Jesus to die on the cross for us.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

No I am not a universalist. Only those who choose the gift of salvation go to heaven. So if a christian commits suicide , its covered under the blood.

So what if a ''christian'' murders someone else and never repents will they go to heaven also?

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Actually Jeesus does NOT expect us to live out our lives in sinless perfection. No man is perfect and that exactly why He sacrificed himself on the cross. However, Jesus does ask us to live by His example PERFECTLY (presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice) without wavering. This is the mandate of the Sermon on the Mount.

No, he does not ask us to live by his example PERFECTLY, then we would be perfect and we wouldn't need Jesus to die on the cross for us.

Actually God not only tells us to live perfectly, but through the infilling of the Holy Spirit God does enables us to do so.
Scripture that tells us to live sinless lives
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Rom 6:20-22
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Ephesians 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Do Not Grieve the Spirit
25 Therefore, putting away lying,

 

[onwingsaseagles]

25 Therefore, putting away lying, “ Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”[e] for we are members of one another.
26 “Be angry, and do not sin” do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

1st Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.

1st Peter 1:16 Because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

1st John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Scriptures that say we are able to live sinlessly
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

1st Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless, Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy

 

[Braveheart47]

So what if a ''christian'' murders someone else and never repents will they go to heaven also?

that is not my call. In my belief, once saved always saved. and no we don't use that as an excuse to do anything, but if I accepted christ, and murdered someone, and had not repented from it yet and died...i would go to heaven.

And you guys are being very Black and White, and life is not black and white....so you can't try to squeeze black and white into a gray world. And don't start coming down with all the questions about, oh but gray is the way of the world etc...no gray is life......there are so many situations life brings us and I have faith that as a christian whatever it is and however I end up dealing with it, my salvation is intact.

 

[Braveheart47]

Actually God not only tells us to live perfectly, but through the infilling of the Holy Spirit God does enables us to do so.
Scripture that tells us to live sinless lives
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Rom 6:20-22
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Ephesians 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Do Not Grieve the Spirit
25 Therefore, putting away lying,

Well good luck with that...

 

[Braveheart47]

And daddy, if you are still reading these posts.....don't do it.....find a way to deal, get counseling, get on meds, whatever you need to help you through till you get through it, or at least past the worst parts. Find the help,,,,its out there.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

that is not my call. In my belief, once saved always saved. and no we don't use that as an excuse to do anything, but if I accepted christ, and murdered someone, and had not repented from it yet and died...i would go to heaven.

And you guys are being very Black and White, and life is not black and white....so you can't try to squeeze black and white into a gray world. And don't start coming down with all the questions about, oh but gray is the way of the world etc...no gray is life......there are so many situations life brings us and I have faith that as a christian whatever it is and however I end up dealing with it, my salvation is intact.

OSAS is a lie of Satan.

The good Olive Tree. (Romans 11:22)
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.
There is no question here that those that were once ''grafted in (saved) can afterwards be cut off (backslide). In context Paul is writing to believing Gentiles about unbelieving Jews.
Romans 11:16-24
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree:
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, the branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.
20 Well: because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standeth by faith. Be not high minded but fear.
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.
23 And they also if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature, and were grafted in contrary to nature into the good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branched be grated into their own olive tree?
Here we see the unbelieving Jews were cut out and the believing Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree. There is no guarantee of Eternal Security, as a matter of fact it's just the opposite. If we do not continue in God's goodness we will be cut off.
Verse 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.
The Jews were cut off because of unbelief but the scripture says that we as Gentiles will be cut off because we do not continue in God's goodness. If we are cut off it is because of sin not unbelief; the unbelieving Gentile would have never been grafted in in the first place.

''IF'' we continue in the faith. Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now have been reconciled.
22 In the body of His flesh through His death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight.
23 IF you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am a minister;
Like in Romans 11:22 we see the big IF, If we continue in the faith, being grounded and settled, not being moved away from the hope of the gospel. We will be presented holy, unblameable, unreproveable before God. If we are moved away not continuing in the faith then we will not be presented holy before God.
This clearly shows we can be moved away from God after we have been reconciled. Verse 21 said we were enemies of God by wicked works and if we continue to engage in wicked works after we have been ''saved'' we will continue to be enemies of God.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Returning to your own vomit 2nd Peter 2:20-22
2nd Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.
Let's look at these verses one at a time.
Verse 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
These people were definitely saved, because they did not just know about Jesus, but they had escaped the pollutions of the world through their knowledge of Christ. The scripture says that after they were saved if they return to their sin they are worse off than from the beginning. Under the false teaching of Eternal Security this is impossible. They could not be worse off than before they were saved because they would still be saved and on their way to Heaven. Yet scripture says they are worse off than before they were saved. So who is right? God or the promoters of eternal Security?
Verse 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Once again you cannot be better off never being saved than backslidden if Eternal Security was true. Before they were saved they were on their way to hell, and you can not be better off going to Hell than Heaven. Scripture says people that turn from their faith are worse off than those that have never been saved at all. People that turn from God after salvation will not only go to hell but they will receive even worse punishment than those that never accept Jesus at all.
I will touch more on this in a future chapter about Christians that return to or continue in sin when I get to Hebrews 10:26-31 but right now let's look at what Jesus said in Luke 12:47-48
Luke 12:47-48
47 And the servant, which knew his lord's will and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did thing worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Those that have been saved and truly know God's will, if they fall away they will suffer worse than those that never knew God or His will at all.
Verse 22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.
When we as Christians turn back to sin it is like a dog returning to his own vomit. Also those of us that have had our sins washed away by the blood of Christ. If we turn from Him and back to the world, then it is like a pig that had been washed returning to the mud pit.


There is no question that all of these passages individually and definitely in combination prove that the Eternal Security/OSAS doctrine is unbiblical at best and a lie of Satan at worst.

 

[Braveheart47]

Returning to your own vomit 2nd Peter 2:20-22
2nd Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.
Let's look at these verses one at a time.
Verse 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
These people were definitely saved, because they did not just know about Jesus, but they had escaped the pollutions of the world through their knowledge of Christ. The scripture says that after they were saved if they return to their sin they are worse off than from the beginning. Under the false teaching of Eternal Security this is impossible. They could not be worse off than before they were saved because they would still be saved and on their way to Heaven. Yet scripture says they are worse off than before they were saved. So who is right? God or the promoters of eternal Security?
Verse 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Once again you cannot be better off never being saved than backslidden if Eternal Security was true. Before they were saved they were on their way to hell, and you can not be better off going to Hell than Heaven. Scripture says people that turn from their faith are worse off than those that have never been saved at all. People that turn from God after salvation will not only go to hell but they will receive even worse punishment than those that never accept Jesus at all.
I will touch more on this in a future chapter about Christians that return to or continue in sin when I get to Hebrews 10:26-31 but right now let's look at what Jesus said in Luke 12:47-48
Luke 12:47-48
47 And the servant, which knew his lord's will and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did thing worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Those that have been saved and truly know God's will, if they fall away they will suffer worse than those that never knew God or His will at all.
Verse 22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.
When we as Christians turn back to sin it is like a dog returning to his own vomit. Also those of us that have had our sins washed away by the blood of Christ. If we turn from Him and back to the world, then it is like a pig that had been washed returning to the mud pit.


There is no question that all of these passages individually and definitely in combination prove that the Eternal Security/OSAS doctrine is unbiblical at best and a lie of Satan at worst.

Eternal security is a whole other issue. And I understand your points, but they are taken out of context. When you put the bible together as a whole, salvation i secure. If it wasn't then it would be in vain. God can not deny himself, and he is saying that to those of us who have been saved. I would hate to live in the insecure life that you do when God has given me the grace to live a FREE life, and thank God he did. I follow his word because I love him not becasue I am supposed to or if i miss the mark I might not be saved. It is teh essence of grace to be able to fail, and know I am still secure with God. I hope and pray for the same with you.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Eternal security is a whole other issue. And I understand your points, but they are taken out of context. When you put the bible together as a whole, salvation i secure. If it wasn't then it would be in vain. God can not deny himself, and he is saying that to those of us who have been saved. I would hate to live in the insecure life that you do when God has given me the grace to live a FREE life, and thank God he did. I follow his word because I love him not because I am supposed to or if i miss the mark I might not be saved. It is teh essence of grace to be able to fail, and know I am still secure with God. I hope and pray for the same with you.

We are free to choose. We are free to deny or receive Salvation and we are free to turn from our Salvation after once receiving it. If you believe in free will you cannot believe in Eternal Security unless you believe our free will is forfeited at Salvation.

 

[Braveheart47]

there is a difference between turning away from God for a time, and giving up salvation. We all have periods in our lives that we struggle with our faith, and I know God gives us grace as we go thru that. he isn't going to send us to hell for having normal feelings. He knows what we feel anyway wether we want to try to hide it or not. No my free will is not forfeited when i am saved, but I believe only those who have never really expericed the face of God will not turn away for long.

 

[believin_in_him]

I have looked through a Bible study cd that I have that you can search out answer with biblical references to many question; I couldn't find one completely conclusive scripture that in black and white states that you will go to hell. I , however didn't find one that says that you wont. I believe, there again this is my belief, that just because you have been saved that you will automaticly be forgiven if you kill yourself. I believe as many have said on here that if your a christian and are "right" with God that you couldn't kill yourself. I think that suicide puts to much in the "what if" catigory, you may but then you may not. So as far as I am concerned it would be way to big of a risk to take. Yes we are forgiven when we are saved, it is a on going relationship with Jesus. I believe that we sould strive to be sinless, but if we do slip we have a advocate to the Father in Jesus. But I don't belive that it is a free ticket to sin as we please, and just take for granted the ultamate sacrifice that Jesus made for us...again my opinion...

 

[NazariteNation]

No, he does not ask us to live by his example PERFECTLY, then we would be perfect and we wouldn't need Jesus to die on the cross for us.

You've totally missed the point. *lol*

Jesus' life (His example) is just as important as His death & resurrection. Throughout His teachings (especially in the Sermon on the Mount), Jesus lays out a detailed plan how we can overcome our flesh in this life (by presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice, exchanging our will and ambitions for His will and submition, replacing pride and selfishness with humility and selflessness, loving God and others before we ever begin to think about ourselves) and to prove His point Jesus lives out this lifestyle in plain view for everyone to see (the fulfillment of the Law). Jesus, being God in the flesh, managed to fulfill this plan to perfection HOWEVER, knowing that no man is perfect, Jesus then sacrifices his life for us the cross so that we can be forgiven in those moments of weakness when we do stumble and fall.

Jesus' example what we commonly call the sanctification process. Sanctifification is the eventual conformity unto the likeness of Christ which in and of itself is a life long pursuit. Jesus knows that we are not perfect which is exactly why He gave His life for us, so that when we stumble and fall, we can run to him with sincere heart felt repentance and with that the Holy Spirit picks us up and dust us off, then we are to jump right back on the path to sanctification where we left off. This is what is means to live by His example PERFECTLY which literally means live it out until it's COMPLETION faithfully despite whatever obstacles the enemy may put in your way.

Sanctification and Eternal Security simple can not co-exist.