Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

[Enow]

Yes, he is. . .and Jesus said he would send another advocate/counsellor (Jn 14:16), one like himself, continuing his ministry of strengthening (comforting), counselling (Ac 16:6,7) helping (Ro 8:26), supporting/enabling (Ac 2:4), advising (Ac 8:29), advocating (Ro 8:27),
for these are all meanings of parakletos.

Actually, there is no adequate English translation for parakletos.
So when Jesus promises another parakletos, like himself, we must see him as continuing Jesus' work.



That refers to guiding into all truth about Jesus.

It does not refer to advising and directing, as in Ac 8:29, 13:2, 16:6, 7, etc.

The Holy Spirit does more than just communicate the truth about Jesus.

Tell me why the Catholics that pray to and speak to the Holy Spirit have never been corrected for speaking to and praying to Mary and the departed saints?

The Holy Spirit speaks what He hears. That means He cannot speak of His own volition. That means when He is speaking, you are hearing the Son of God as the Good Shepherd He is, guiding you through the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit is not really the Counselor when the Son of God is. That means relating to the real Counselor is how a believer is to respond.

If you say.. no in that He does not just speak what He hears, then what would be the point of testifying to that? How can anyone say it was the Holy Spirit speaking and not the Good Shepherd? How can anyone say that they are being the chaste bride of Christ in relating to God through the Son, the Bridegroom, if there was another "Bridegroom"?

The Spirit is not the Counselor nor the Bridegroom.

If you consider an offense to be relating to the first man what should only be reserved for the bridegroom, then what more is that offense when relating to God?

Scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit are still pointing believers to continue that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, ths Son of God, so that they may avoid false spirits as well as false prophets that will try to come inbetween them.

 

[Enow]

Jn 10 speaks for itself.

And even His disciples needed His help to understand His words as you are missing the prophesy of the falling away from the faith regarding the church and how many will be left behind from the pre trib rapture, but are still considered His even though they had gone astray as they are still His sheep as they will be made to follow His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd.

 

[Enow]

The Importance of the Spirit’s Work

But is the work of the Holy Spirit really important? Important! Why, were it not for the work of the Holy Spirit there would be no gospel, no faith, no church, no Christianity in the world at all.

In the first place, without the Holy Spirit there would be no gospel and no New Testament.

That's forgetting the work of the Father in all of that of which the Holy Spirit is in the limelight.

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 10:[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are one.

Matthew 10:[SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Now that Jesus has ascended, the words of the Father are now His so that the Son of God continues as our Good Shepherd guiding us through the Holy Spirit within us.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When Christ left the world, he committed his cause to his disciples. He made them responsible for going and making disciples of all the nations. “Ye. . . shall bear witness,” he told them in the upper room (Jn 15:27 KJV). “You will be my witnesses. . . to the ends of the earth,” were his parting words to them on Olivet, before he ascended (Acts 1:8).

Seems to me that J.I. Packer is breaking from that commission by being withesses of the Holy Spirit in seeking the glory of the Holy Spirit.

The answer to this question is no—because Christ sent the Holy Spirit to them, to teach them all truth and so save them from all error, to remind them of what they had been taught already and to reveal to them the rest of what their Lord meant them to learn. “The Counselor

The KJV has it as Comforter and so that is a wrong translation and the following in that quote is why.

... will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (Jn 14:26). “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears” (that is, he would make known to them all that Christ would instruct him to tell them, just as Christ had made known to them all that the Father had instructed him to tell them: see Jn 12:49-50; 17:8, 14), “and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you” (Jn 16:12-14). In this way “he will testify about me” (to you, my disciples, to whom I send him); and (equipped and enabled by his testifying work) “you also must testify” (15:26-27).
The promise was that, taught by the Spirit, these original disciples should be enabled to speak as so many mouths of Christ so that, just as the Old Testament prophets had been able to introduce their sermons with the words, “Thus saith the LORD Jehovah,” so the New Testament apostles might with equal truth truth be able to say of their teaching, oral or written, “Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ.”

So if the Holy Spirit is not really speaking but relaying what the Lord Jesus Christ is saying, Whom then is the real "Counselor"?

And the thing happened. The Spirit came to the disciples and testified to them of Christ and his salvation, according to the promise. Speaking of the glories of this salvation (“what God has prepared for those who love him”), Paul writes, “God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. . . We have. . . received. . . the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak [and, he might have added, write], not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit” (1 Cor 2:9-13). The Spirit testified to the apostles by revealing to them all truth and inspiring them to communicate it with all truthfulness. Hence the gospel, and hence the New Testament. But the world would have had neither without the Holy Spirit.

Scriptures testifies that the Father is behind all of this as He is the One that draws men unto the Son in revealing the Son to them as He is the One that GIVES them to the Son to keep.

When they come to & believe in Jesus Christ... that is when they receive the promise of the Spirit & not before.

It is by witnessing through us that the Holy Spirit convicts by testifying of Him, but guess what? Not everyone will believe nor be convicted.

That job of drawing those that seek Him unto the Son and revealing the Son to them is the Father's: not the Spirit's. The Spirit in us serves as a Witness as He leads us to witness .... the seed for the sower and the water for the waterer is coming from the Son now.... as He is the author & finisher of our faith as all the fruits of righteousness are hereby by Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Nor is this all. In the second place, without the Holy Spirit there would be no faith and no new birth—in short, no Christians.

Cart before the horse. They cannot receive the Spirit except by faith in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

We do not receive faith through the promise of the Spirit first. We receive the promise of the Spirit through faith first.

So God the Father is the One responsible for us believing in the Son of God as He is the One that gives us to the Son.

Packer, J: "Knowing God"

Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White

He should know better than to join an ecumenical movement in forming an agreement in this manner.

2 Corinthians 6:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Just because some one is famous in the christian media circle, doesn't mean he is always right. Prove all things by the scripture with the help of the Good Shepherd, because Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd, not J.I. Packer.

 

[Elin]

the Holy Spirit is not really the Counselor when the Son of God is. That means relating to the real Counselor is how a believer is to respond.

I didn't choose the word parakletos to describe the Holy Spirit.

I didn't write the Greek lexicon where parakletos carries many meanings, as
Strengthener (Comforter), Counselor, Helper, Supporter, Advocate, Ally, Senior Friend.

I didn't write the English lexicon which has no adequate translation for parakletos.

Those are above my pay grade.

 

[Elin]

And even His disciples needed His help to understand His words as you are missing the prophesy of the falling away from the faith regarding the church and how many will be left behind from the pre trib rapture, but are still considered His even though they had gone astray as they are still His sheep as they will be made to follow His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd.

That is based in uncertain private interpretation of unfulfilled symbolic prophetic riddles.

They can have more than one meaning, and none, if any, are certain.

I don't do private uncertain interpretations of unfulfilled prophetic riddles.

 

[Enow]

I didn't choose the word parakletos to describe the Holy Spirit.

I didn't write the Greek lexicon where parakletos carries many meanings, as
Strengthener (Comforter), Counselor, Helper, Supporter, Advocate, Ally, Senior Friend.

I didn't write the English lexicon which has no adequate translation for parakletos.

Those are above my pay grade.

But relying on the Good Shepherd for help in understanding His words is not.

You really going to make me lead you through this?

Strong's Greek Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

parakletos ---- an intercessor, consoler:--advocate, comforter.

BTW: Do note that counsellor is not listed. It's consoler.

Now you would stop there and say.. see, it says intercessor & advocate? But you are not seeing the need for proper application using that resource. You can only apply the definition as it is to be used in the verse without going contrary to what is written with the rest of scripture.

Example as to why you have to do it in that way is below.

Strong's Greek Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

pneuma ---- a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind.

Just because parakletos listed advocate or intercessor does not mean that it is to be applied the same as comforter or consoler any more than pneuma has listed the Holy Spirit to be applied the same as angel, demon, or anything else listed.

Just as we are in need of God's wisdom to understand His written words in the KJV, even moreso, in keeping with His words in translation, because scripture cannot go against scripture, we need His wisdom to know which is the proper translation to the text in keeping with the truth with the rest of the scripture, because there is only one Mediator, one Advocate, and one Intercessor between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, that is at that throne of grace for us.

 

[Kefa52]

COUNTERFEIT "INWARD" DRAWINGS
At first, after the Baptism of the Spirit, the believer knows to a great extent the true guidance of the Spirit of God. He knows true inward constraint to act, and restraint from action in like manner; such as when to speak to another about his soul, when to rise and testify in a meeting, etc., but after a time he ceases to watch for this pure inward moving of the Spirit; often through ignorance of how to read the monitions of his spirit; and begins to wait for some other incentive or manifestation to guide him in action. This is the time for which the deceiving spirits have been watching. Because at this point the believer has ceased, unknown to himself, to co-operate with the inward spirit action; to use his volition, and to decide for himself, he is now watching for some other supernatural indication of the way to go, or the course to take. Hence he must have "guidance" somehow, some "text," some "indication," some "providential circumstance," etc., etc. This is the moment of opportunity for a deceiving spirit to gain his faith and confidence: and so some word or words are whispered softly, that are exactly in accordance with the inward drawing that he has had, but which he has not recognized as from another source than the Holy Spirit, Who acted by the deep inner constraining and restraining of the spirit . The soft whisper of the deceiving spirit is so delicate and gentle, that the believer listens to, and receives the words without question, and begins to obey this soft whisper, yielding more and more to it, without any thought of exercising mind, judgment, reason, or volition.

The "feelings" are now in the body, but the believer is unconscious that he is ceasing to act from his spirit, and by the pure unfettered action of his will and his mind, which, under the illumination of the Spirit, is always in accord with the spirit. This is a time of great danger if the believer fails to discriminate the source of his "drawing" feelings, and yields to them before finding out their source. He should examine his basic principle of decision, especially when it has to do with feeling, lest he should be led away by any feeling without being able to say where it comes from, or whether it is safe for him to go by it. He should know there are physical feelings, soulish feelings, and feelings in the spirit, either of which can be Divine or Satanic in their source, therefore reliance on "feelings"--feeling drawn, etc.--is a source of great mischief in the Christian life.

From this point deceiving spirits can increase their control, for the believer has begun the listening attitude, which can be developed acutely, until he is always watching for an "inner voice," or a voice in the ear, which is an exact counterfeit of the voice of God in the spirit; and thus the believer moves, and acts as a passive slave to "supernatural guidance.

 

[Elin]

I didn't choose the word parakletos to describe the Holy Spirit.

I didn't write the Greek lexicon where parakletos is pregnant with meaning:
Strengthener (Comforter), Counselor, Helper, Supporter, Advocate, Ally, Senior Friend.

I didn't write the English lexicon which has no adequate translation for parakletos.

Those are above my pay grade.

You really going to make me lead you through this?

The NT shows the Holy Spirit performing each of the above functions of the parakletos.

It likewise shows the NT writer, John the Apostle, using parakletos to describe both Christ (1Jn 2:1) and the Holy Spirit (Jn 14:16, 26, 15:26, 16:7), because the Holy Spirit is another (like Christ) parakletos who continues Jesus' ministry by applying it (making it effective) to the Church.

It's really not that complicated.

You are wrestling the Scriptures to fit your theology.

 

[Yourfriend4life]

the Holy spirit is a part of Jesus(God) that he gave as a gift.........Jesus and His Father are one........one of the same body

 

[homwardbound]

Brother. May He help you to see that ... that is a dangerous percedent to have that kind of mentality because then you would be judging those that profess them.. even if it is just in your mind... that they are not really saved.

Matthew 18:[SUP]6[/SUP]But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! [SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. [SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? [SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

So if a brother trespass in this fashion below, he is still a brother.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

They are still a brother because they were of faith, and now they are not but has gone astray by a snare of the devil.

We cannot have that mentality of judgment when it comes to other believers when we are led by Him to do this below.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, [SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Enow, God is the one that gives the direction(s) to his son's that are in him and daughters. Sometimes we as being his children we need to stepver the baby believer or mature one, it is in God's hands brother not mine And a good ex:ing Nebechenezzar chewed the cud of the ground for 12 years and then announced that God is God gave up his own godhood and God was pleased by his belief. Sometimes and a lot of times manhood needs to go through the mire and learn as King Nebechenezar did

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus gives us access to Him by the Holy Spirit So by the Holy Spirit we have access to Jesus that gives us access to the Father perfect union perfect access perfect unity with each one perfectly. No tabooos no jealousy no missing the mark. Some demon spirit is going to interupt the Holy Spirit move Him aside and lead us astray with out the Holy Spirit responding or we are unaware of it? E. 2:18

We are unawre of it because when we put our eyes back on the world the world tends to envelop us and we tend te resort back to the fleshly old man with worry and fear of when after the Lord has revealed himself perfect love then casts out all fear

 

[homwardbound]

Then read how we are friends with Jesus personally.

John 15:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Now heed the commandment of this invitation, because it entails more than how we are saved, but also how we can come to God period.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

To love (is what he has commanded and is the fullfillment of the Law) as he has loved us and he has taken all sin out of the way for us and the love he is saying and wanting to execute unto the believer is found 1 cor 13

 

[homwardbound]

The Importance of the Spirit’s Work

But is the work of the Holy Spirit really important? Important! Why, were it not for the work of the Holy Spirit there would be no gospel, no faith, no church, no Christianity in the world at all.

In the first place, without the Holy Spirit there would be no gospel and no New Testament.

When Christ left the world, he committed his cause to his disciples. He made them responsible for going and making disciples of all the nations. “Ye. . . shall bear witness,” he told them in the upper room (Jn 15:27 KJV). “You will be my witnesses. . . to the ends of the earth,” were his parting words to them on Olivet, before he ascended (Acts 1:8). Such was their appointed task. But what sort of witnesses were they likely to prove? They had never been good pupils; they had consistently failed to understand Christ and missed the point of his teaching throughout his earthly ministry; how could they be expected to do better now that he had gone? Was it not virtually certain that, with the best will in the world, they would soon get the truth of the gospel inextricably mixed up with a mass of well-meant misconceptions, and their witness would rapidly be reduced to a twisted, garbled, hopeless muddle?

The answer to this question is no—because Christ sent the Holy Spirit to them, to teach them all truth and so save them from all error, to remind them of what they had been taught already and to reveal to them the rest of what their Lord meant them to learn. “The Counselor ... will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (Jn 14:26). “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears” (that is, he would make known to them all that Christ would instruct him to tell them, just as Christ had made known to them all that the Father had instructed him to tell them: see Jn 12:49-50; 17:8, 14), “and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you” (Jn 16:12-14). In this way “he will testify about me” (to you, my disciples, to whom I send him); and (equipped and enabled by his testifying work) “you also must testify” (15:26-27).
The promise was that, taught by the Spirit, these original disciples should be enabled to speak as so many mouths of Christ so that, just as the Old Testament prophets had been able to introduce their sermons with the words, “Thus saith the LORD Jehovah,” so the New Testament apostles might with equal truth truth be able to say of their teaching, oral or written, “Thus saith the Lord Jesus Christ.”

And the thing happened. The Spirit came to the disciples and testified to them of Christ and his salvation, according to the promise. Speaking of the glories of this salvation (“what God has prepared for those who love him”), Paul writes, “God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. . . We have. . . received. . . the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak [and, he might have added, write], not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit” (1 Cor 2:9-13). The Spirit testified to the apostles by revealing to them all truth and inspiring them to communicate it with all truthfulness. Hence the gospel, and hence the New Testament. But the world would have had neither without the Holy Spirit.

Nor is this all. In the second place, without the Holy Spirit there would be no faith and no new birth—in short, no Christians.

The light of the gospel shines; but “the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4), and the blind do not respond to the stimulus of light. As Christ told Nicodemus, “No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again” (Jn 3:3; compare v. 5). Speaking corporately for himself and his disciples to Nicodemus and to the whole class of unregenerate religious people to which Nicodemus belonged, Christ went on to explain that the inevitable consequence of unregeneracy is unbelief—“You people do not accept our testimony” (Jn 3:11). The gospel produces no conviction in them; unbelief holds them fast.

What follows, then? Should we conclude that preaching the gospel is a waste of time and write off evangelism as a hopeless enterprise, foredoomed to fail? No, because the Spirit abides with the church to testify of Christ. To the apostles, he testified by resealing and inspiring, as we saw. To the rest of us, down the ages, he testifies by illuminating: opening blinded eyes, restoring spiritual vision, enabling sinners to see that the gospel is indeed God’s truth, and Scripture is indeed God’s Word, and Christ is indeed God’s Son. “When he [the Spirit] comes,” our Lord promised, “he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment” (Jn 16:8 RSV).

It is not for us to imagine that we can prove the truth of Christianity by our own arguments; nobody can prove the truth of Christianity except the Holy Spirit, by his own almighty work of renewing the blinded heart. It is the sovereign prerogative of Christ’s Spirit to convince men’s consciences of the truth of Christ’s gospel; and Christ’s human witnesses must learn to ground their hopes of success not on clever presentation of the truth by man, but on powerful demonstration of the truth by the Spirit.

Paul points the way here: “When I came to you, brethren, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom.... My speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God” (1 Cor 2:1-5 RSV). And because the Spirit does bear witness in this way, people come to faith when the gospel is preached. But without the Spirit there would not be a Christian in the world.

Packer, J: "Knowing God"

Kefa, so the point here is that we become responders to God the Father through Christ nad the coupler is the Holy Ghost for us to listen to for what the Father and or son tells us to do as in Pentecost, without the Holy Ghost all works were fruitless, with the holy Ghost andus doing as the Holy Ghost reveals to us what hte Father and Son want we do and the works done are real and will never burn up as all our flesh works do burn up or will when our time comes as Paul describes in 1 Cor 3
Love what you said

 

[Kefa52]

Kefa, so the point here is that we become responders to God the Father through Christ nad the coupler is the Holy Ghost for us to listen to for what the Father and or son tells us to do as in Pentecost, without the Holy Ghost all works were fruitless, with the holy Ghost andus doing as the Holy Ghost reveals to us what hte Father and Son want we do and the works done are real and will never burn up as all our flesh works do burn up or will when our time comes as Paul describes in 1 Cor 3
Love what you said

YES!....We have to repent and "Turn to God", We have to accept Jesus as Savior and "we go to him". The Holy Spirit "Comes to us" as a counselor. When we say that Jesus lives in "US" it is only threw the Holy Spirit.
To understand this read post #135 again.

 

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Enow

Did you know that to be a true witness in God's eye, you have to have another witness with you?

Not so.

1) That was the Mosaic law only for court witnessing to a crime.

2) The Mosaic law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

3) In the NT it again applies to charges of misconduct.

It also applies to establishing a witness which can be done to establishing a charge.

John 8:[SUP]13 [/SUP]The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

So Jesus reconfirmed that law of what makes a false witness from a true witness.

John 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

So how did the Triune God had borne witness of the Son at His water baptism?

John 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

How else can the righteousness of thsi prophesy be fulfilled as Jesus told John the Baptist's?

Isaiah 48:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

So whenever we bear worship by ourself individually IN spirit & IN truth, we are led by the Spirit of God to come to the Father in worship by way of the Son. The individual worship and indiviual prayer and that individual living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ is done with the witness of the Holy Spirit at the same time of doing so in the eyes of God.

Our individual witness of our singular worship of Him must be accompanied with the Spirit's witness as a witness of true worshippers IN spirit & IN truth in the honour of & glory of God the Father to worship God as God through honour of & glory of the Son.

There is no other way, because individually as believers in Jesus Christ, this judgment is hanging over every believer in doing so as the witness of the Holy Spirit and the witness of the Father will determine how the Son will judge us by how we are relating to God through the Son.

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Those words above should not be taken lightly as if He did not really mean that.

There are other verses in the NT that establishes that at leats two witnesses is required for any witness to be true as Jesus has confirmed.

Jesus had taught it as a way of correcting someoe within the body of Christ:

Matthew 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Paul repeats that necessity:

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Even for correcting an elder in a church:

1 Timothy 5:19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

So there is necessity to take heed of His invitation because Jesus really is the only way to relate to God the Father by and the only reason He would say... I know ye not whence ye are to wayward believer to be left behind at the pre trib rapture.

Matthew 7:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? [SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.....[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

The fact that this prophetic warning was given to the body of believers as happening within the body of believers should prove the matter in how we are to comtinue relating to God the Father through the Son in getting to know Him, but only God can help any believer see that singular and narrow Truth in His words to avoid Him saying I know ye not "whence" ye are because the iniquity was that they were not coming to Him only by way of the Son in being personl with Him as the Bridegroom He is.

Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: [SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[homwardbound]

If you want an eye opening book to truth I recommend CLASSIS CHRISTIANITY author of the book Bob George found at people to people ministries order line no 1.800.727.2828 this is where you would get it at cost

 

[Kefa52]

If you want an eye opening book to truth I recommend CLASSIS CHRISTIANITY author of the book Bob George found at people to people ministries order line no 1.800.727.2828 this is where you would get it at cost

I had ordered that book. It was in our old house that had hurricane damage. I think is got wet and thrown out. Going to get it on Kindle.

 

[Enow]

YES!....We have to repent and "Turn to God", We have to accept Jesus as Savior and "we go to him". The Holy Spirit "Comes to us" as a counselor. When we say that Jesus lives in "US" it is only threw the Holy Spirit.
To understand this read post #135 again.

That means the Holy Spirit is not the Go To Person of the Triune God for believers to be personally relating to God the Father through which is why the Son of God is called the Bridegroom as we are the bride. May He help us to live like one in being chaste in coming to and relating to the Triune God through the Son.

Together as a witness, we would be focussing on the Son in testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son in how we are relating to God the Father through the Son as a combined witness by.

 

[Enow]

To love (is what he has commanded and is the fullfillment of the Law) as he has loved us and he has taken all sin out of the way for us and the love he is saying and wanting to execute unto the believer is found 1 cor 13

Love is one of the commandments but Jesus said we are His friends if we do "whatsoever" He commands us.

The commandment of His invitation is one such commandment and if we are to relate to the So of God as friends, then we do so directly for it is by Him, we get to know the Father and is relating to Him through the Son.

 

[GreenNnice]

The Lord leads our life THROUGH His 'Helper,' the Holy Spirit. Why make it complicated, it's NOT complicated, LOL, love that att commercial with preschool age kids in the classroom. They sure make the obvious OBVIOUS , don't they.
Come to Him, our God is Lord and spirit, and, He leads our lives. Simple. God leads. Lord leads, Spirit of God in us leads. It's NOT complicated, just because we don't directly interact with God and we DO have Jesus our 'mediator' between God and man sure doesn't mean God isn't controlling our lives. He is !
We are to pay homage and respect to God through understanding His Son's death on the cross. 'Homage' isn't the perfect word, but it works, and, the point is understood, right. It's NOT....

Blessings to you all as you understand who God is more and more, His spirit speaking to yours, He does reveal all truth through His Spirit, given you 'by faith' in Him when you believe. Who is Jesus, why must He go before He comes to 'help' us. Sounds comolicated, doesn't it? But, pray, ceaselessly, for, in His time, by faith, you will see revelation come.
He, Him, God, Lord, Jesus, spirit of God, God is spirit, Man, Lord God, Son, Father, man, nope, it's NOT....