Do NOT Address NOR Speak TO the Holy Spirit

[Enow]

The Lord leads our life THROUGH His 'Helper,' the Holy Spirit. Why make it complicated, it's NOT complicated, LOL, love that att commercial with preschool age kids in the classroom. They sure make the obvious OBVIOUS , don't they.
Come to Him, our God is Lord and spirit, and, He leads our lives. Simple. God leads. Lord leads, Spirit of God in us leads. It's NOT complicated, just because we don't directly interact with God and we DO have Jesus our 'mediator' between God and man sure doesn't mean God isn't controlling our lives. He is !
We are to pay homage and respect to God through understanding His Son's death on the cross. 'Homage' isn't the perfect word, but it works, and, the point is understood, right. It's NOT....

Blessings to you all as you understand who God is more and more, His spirit speaking to yours, He does reveal all truth through His Spirit, given you 'by faith' in Him when you believe. Who is Jesus, why must He go before He comes to 'help' us. Sounds comolicated, doesn't it? But, pray, ceaselessly, for, in His time, by faith, you will see revelation come.
He, Him, God, Lord, Jesus, spirit of God, God is spirit, Man, Lord God, Son, Father, man, nope, it's NOT....

Because believers have been warned not to believe every spirit but test them which is why to avoid these spirits, we acknowledge that the real Holy Spirit dwells within us pointing us to continue that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Too many believers are experiencing a supernatural phenomenon outside of when they were saved and are believing that to be of God, without recognizing the spirit of error as the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world taking their eyes off of the Son by coming inbetween us and Him and thereby leading us away from Him as in "instead of Christ" which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do because the Son of God is the Bridegroom as we are to be the chaste bride of Christ.

It is by coming to and relating to the Son that we are really relating to God the Father. There is no other way in coming to God.

 

[Elin]

im not a lawyer but i am a witness. when you are led by the Spirit, it is very interactive.

Did you know that to be a true witness in God's eye, you have to have another witness with you?

Not so.

1) That was the Mosaic law only for court witnessing to a crime.

2) The Mosaic law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

3) In the NT it again applies to charges of misconduct.

It also applies to establishing a witness which can be done to establishing a charge.
John 8:[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

That is why when witnessing as an individual believer of the Good News, our witness has to be in sync with the Holy Spirit's witness.

That is an unnecessary and Biblically unwarranted overlay over the Biblical principle

that our witnessing is true only if it is according to the word of God written.

So whenever we bear worship by ourself, we are led by the Spirit of God to come to the Father in worship by way of the Son.

Our individual witness of our singular worship of Him must be accompanied with the Spirit's witness as a witness of true worshippers IN spirit & IN truth to worship God through the Son.

There is no other way, because individually as believers in Jesus Christ, this judgment is hanging over every believer in doing so as the witness of the Holy Spirit and the witness of the Father will determine how the Son will judge us by how we are relating to God through the Son.

And so we can sin in relating to the Father?

And so requiring two witnesses to establish the truth of an earthly statement in court
has now morphed into requiring two witnesses to keep us from sinning in the way we relate to the Father?

This is nowhere stated or implied in the NT, and is manifestly the doctrine of men, not of God.

There will be no Holy Spirit witness to this doctrine.





.

 

[zone]

Just because some one is famous in the christian media circle, doesn't mean he is always right. Prove all things by the scripture with the help of the Good Shepherd, because Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd, not J.I. Packer.

And even His disciples needed His help to understand His words as you are missing the prophesy of the falling away from the faith regarding the church and how many will be left behind from the pre trib rapture, but are still considered His even though they had gone astray as they are still His sheep as they will be made to follow His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd.

well, i dunno where you got your pretrib thing from cuz it ain't written.
but it's popular with many who are 'famous in the christian media circle'.

 

[Abiding]

well, i dunno where you got your pretrib thing from cuz it ain't written.
but it's popular with many who are 'famous in the christian media circle'.

Im thinking the pretrib explaination i see now a-days is more lengthy
that the new testament, i know it must be fun to tell it. Each time
adding more and more till i just sounds darn believable and nice.

 

[Enow]

That is an unnecessary and Biblically unwarranted overlay over the Biblical principle

that our witnessing is true only if it is according to the word of God written.

This is not saying that just because there were more than two witnesses at the Salem Witch's trial that those condemned were really witches. Many false witnesses can rise up to tell lies of other people.

This is referring to how in God's eyes, we are considered a true witness of Him.

Jesus said what makes a false witness.

John 5:[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

The Pharisees tried to get Him on that but He said this, reconfirming what makes a true witness:

John 8:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

So that is why when we bear witness as led by the Holy Spirit within us as we shall do what the Holy Spirit is sent to do and that is to bear witness of the Son ( John 15:26-27) and not speaking of the Spirit ( John 16:13) so that the combined testimony would be true in God's eye ( John 8:17 ) in seeking the glory of the Son which is what the Holy Spirit will lead the believers to do ( John 16:14)

Therefore the Holy Spirit is excluded from leading the believers to address, speak to, honour nor glorify the Person of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself, but still pointing believers and those that they witness to ,,, to the Son in being His disciples.

And so we can sin in relating to the Father?

And so requiring two witnesses to establish the truth of an earthly statement in court
has now morphed into requiring two witnesses to keep us from sinning in the way we relate to the Father?

This is nowhere stated or implied in the NT, and is manifestly the doctrine of men, not of God.

There will be no Holy Spirit witness to this doctrine.

The Son of God, Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom... our first love. We love Him because He first loved us. By not relating to the Son in coming to God the Father, the Spirit will witness that as well as the Word of God by which He would say... I know ye not whence ye are" identifying that workof iniquity just by the way they were NOT relating to Him personally.




.[/QUOTE]

 

[Enow]

well, i dunno where you got your pretrib thing from cuz it ain't written.
but it's popular with many who are 'famous in the christian media circle'.

What is not known is that not all believers will be raptured. The Pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House first and those left behind will be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake, albeit, there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth for missing out on their birthright.

 

[Enow]

Im thinking the pretrib explaination i see now a-days is more lengthy
that the new testament, i know it must be fun to tell it. Each time
adding more and more till i just sounds darn believable and nice.

Hopefully, you will consider this a short version:

Luke 14:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. [SUP]21 [/SUP]So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things.....[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, [SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Crazy, right? Who would love this life so much that when the Bridegroom comes, they would rather stay? How could that be a snare, and yet Jesus said this of a time that is not descriptive of what the believers would be going through with the great tribulation.

Luke 21:[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So there is an escape to be had which will occur during a time when believers are living a carefree life not consistent with the war on the saints during the great tribulation.

Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; [SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. [SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

And where is that gathering?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So how is that for a post that speaks of the pre trib rapture with way more on His words than what believers would add to it in explaining it?

And yes, Jesus answered Peter's question about that very thing about the necessity to be ready to go in that manner, because there really is a fire coming on the earth.

Luke 12:31-49 KJV - But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; - Bible Gateway

 

[zone]

What is not known is that not all believers will be raptured. The Pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House first and those left behind will be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake, albeit, there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth for missing out on their birthright.

oh.
but....where are your proof texts?
i don't want imaginative fables.
show me in scripture.
please.

it'll only take one post to show you the error.

 

[Enow]

oh.
but....where are your proof texts?
i don't want imaginative fables.
show me in scripture.
please.

it'll only take one post to show you the error.

See Post #167 in this thread.

 

[Elin]

"I know ye not whence ye are" identifying that work of iniquity just by the way they were NOT relating to Him personally.

Strange stuff. . .

 

[Abiding]

Hopefully, you will consider this a short version:

Luke 14:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. [SUP]21 [/SUP]So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things.....[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, [SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Crazy, right? Who would love this life so much that when the Bridegroom comes, they would rather stay? How could that be a snare, and yet Jesus said this of a time that is not descriptive of what the believers would be going through with the great tribulation.

Luke 21:[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So there is an escape to be had which will occur during a time when believers are living a carefree life not consistent with the war on the saints during the great tribulation.

Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; [SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. [SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

And where is that gathering?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So how is that for a post that speaks of the pre trib rapture with way more on His words than what believers would add to it in explaining it?

And yes, Jesus answered Peter's question about that very thing about the necessity to be ready to go in that manner, because there really is a fire coming on the earth.

Luke 12:31-49 KJV - But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; - Bible Gateway

Those are nice passages, but they havnt anything to do with what your saying about people left behind
in a rapture.

 

[Abiding]

We just cant use the bible that way or we will come up with
...what was it?...oh ya: gobbledegoop.

 

[Abiding]

What is not known is that not all believers will be raptured. The Pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House first and those left behind will be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake, albeit, there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth for missing out on their birthright.

A read in 1 Cor 15 several times will help this condition.

 

[zone]

Hopefully, you will consider this a short version:

Luke 14:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. [SUP]21 [/SUP]So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things.....[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, [SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

^ no rapture

Crazy, right? Who would love this life so much that when the Bridegroom comes, they would rather stay? How could that be a snare, and yet Jesus said this of a time that is not descriptive of what the believers would be going through with the great tribulation.

huh? just because you say ppl are gone or left behind means nothing.
that passage is about the israelites who were rejecting Him at the time.
He was saying they wouldn't inherit eternal life.

no rapture there.

Luke 21:[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So there is an escape to be had which will occur during a time when believers are living a carefree life not consistent with the war on the saints during the great tribulation.

uh....no.
escape all the killing and tribulation just means you're among those who escape it.
it's got nothing about a pretrib rapture.

standing before the Son of Man is about escaping temptations to deny Him or fall away before dying/or Second Advent.
being in Good Standing on The Day.

Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; [SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. [SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

who is gathered first?
who is taken and who is left behind?

And where is that gathering?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

uh....where is a pretrib rapture in that?
Second Advent:

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

So how is that for a post that speaks of the pre trib rapture with way more on His words than what believers would add to it in explaining it?

no pretrib in any of that.

And yes, Jesus answered Peter's question about that very thing about the necessity to be ready to go in that manner, because there really is a fire coming on the earth.

in a moment in the twinkling of an eye we shall be changed.
we are not appointed to wrath.
nothing from God will hurt us.

did the israelites suffer when the Egyptians did?
noooo.

no wrath for us.

 

[tribesman]

^ no rapture



huh? just because you say ppl are gone or left behind means nothing.
that passage is about the israelites who were rejecting Him at the time.
He was saying they wouldn't inherit eternal life.

no rapture there.



uh....no.
escape all the killing and tribulation just means you're among those who escape it.
it's got nothing about a pretrib rapture.

standing before the Son of Man is about escaping temptations to deny Him or fall away before dying/or Second Advent.
being in Good Standing on The Day.



Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

who is gathered first?
who is taken and who is left behind?



uh....where is a pretrib rapture in that?
Second Advent:

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”



no pretrib in any of that.



in a moment in the twinkling of an eye we shall be changed.
we are not appointed to wrath.
nothing from God will hurt us.

did the israelites suffer when the Egyptians did?
noooo.

no wrath for us.

 

[zone]

ooooooo that's beautiful!

 

[Enow]

no wrath for us.

Ephesians 5:[SUP]3 [/SUP]But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; [SUP]4 [/SUP]Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Colossians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

So how not being left behind is not how the Father would chasten the prodigal son for giving up his inheriatnce for wild living?

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.........

So there is cause to be ready and found abiding in Him or be left behind to be chastened by Him to be made ready.

Hebrews 12:[SUP]25 [/SUP]See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: [SUP]26 [/SUP]Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [SUP]29 [/SUP]For our God is a consuming fire.

If you still think it is a simple loss of rewards, discern again....

Luke 12:[SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. [SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Jesus warned believers. Paul warned believers. Peter warned believers. John warned believers.

Think what God has to say to the church at Thyatira was void of consequences?

Revelation 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; [SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

I fail to see why so many believers today seem to think that all of these warnings were not for the church as if the NT was just words filling pages reciting a gospel as if any believer that do wrong has no need to worry about the wrath from our Father.

But then Jesus did say that the elect, the chosen, will follow His voice and heed His call to look to the Good Shepherd to have them ready to go by abiding in His words before the Bridegroom comes for the abiding bride.

 

[homwardbound]

YES!....We have to repent and "Turn to God", We have to accept Jesus as Savior and "we go to him". The Holy Spirit "Comes to us" as a counselor. When we say that Jesus lives in "US" it is only threw the Holy Spirit.
To understand this read post #135 again.

I agree therefore as ithink my post had read is that I agree with you

 

[homwardbound]

I had ordered that book. It was in our old house that had hurricane damage. I think is got wet and thrown out. Going to get it on Kindle.

Enjoy, and after reading it tell me what you think send a private email

 

[homwardbound]

That means the Holy Spirit is not the Go To Person of the Triune God for believers to be personally relating to God the Father through which is why the Son of God is called the Bridegroom as we are the bride. May He help us to live like one in being chaste in coming to and relating to the Triune God through the Son.

Together as a witness, we would be focussing on the Son in testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son in how we are relating to God the Father through the Son as a combined witness by.

Please be careful that you are not straining out a gnat as the pharisees did, being caught under the letter of the law, just being caring here Enow