Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,689
17
38
#61
ALso Firstfruits is about presenting oneself to YHWH not resurrection;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:17, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Strength and your Strength.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Why is it when Mary/Miryam tries to touch Yahshua He says: “Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:18, "Miryam from Maḡdala came announcing to the disciples that she had seen the Master, and that He had told her this."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Then Miryam leaves Yahshua and goes and tells the disciples what happened, leaving Yahshua alone.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:24-27, "But T’oma (Thomas), called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came, so the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the Master.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the mark of the nails, and put my finger into the imprint of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I shall by no means believe. And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and T’oma with them. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came, the doors having been shut, and He stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you! Then He said to T’oma, “Bring your finger here, and see My hands. And bring your hand and put it into My side – and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Here, eight days later, He tells T’oma to touch Him, but when Miryam tried to touch Him He did not allow her. Why could Miriam not touch Him but Thomas could? What happened between this time period of these 2 incidents?[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The reason for this is understood in something called the Fest of Firstfruits. It is one of the Moadim or Feast Days of YHWH. In which the entire woks of Messiah from His Sacrifice and Resurrection to His return as the conquering Lion and Rulership over all is laid out in perfect prophetic shadow pictures, 100% about Messiah and ddirectly from YHWH with no distraction, pagan ritual or falsehood.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:20-23, “But now Messiah has been raised from the dead, and has become the first-fruit of those having fallen asleep. For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a Man. For as all die in Aḏam, so also all shall be made alive in Messiah. And each in his own order: Messiah, the first-fruits, then those who are of Messiah at His coming,”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]first-fruits” is word #G536 - ἀπαρχή aparche: the beginning of a sacrifice, i.e. the first fruit, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine - Transliteration: aparché - Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ar-khay') - Short Definition: the first-fruits, Definition: the first-fruits, the earliest crop of the year, hence also met., for example, of the earliest converts in a district; there is evidence in favor of rendering in some passages merely by: sacrifice, gift.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) to offer firstlings or firstfruits, 2) to take away the firstfruits of the productions of the earth which was offered to God. The first portion of the dough, from which sacred loaves were to be prepared. Hence term used of persons consecrated to God for all time, 3) persons superior in excellence to others of the same class[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:10-12, “to the children of Yisra’ĕl, and you shall say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I give you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest. And he shall wave the sheaf before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for your acceptance. On the morrow after the Sabbath the priest waves it. And on that day when you wave the sheaf, you shall prepare a male lamb a year old, a perfect one, as an ascending offering to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ascending” is word #H5930 - olah: ascent, Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]עֹלָה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Noun Feminine, Transliteration: olah, Phonetic Spelling: (o-law'), Short Definition: ascent[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In the Fest of First-Fruits the Priest “On the morrow after the Sabbath the priest waves it[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]That is why when the women came to the tomb “On the morrow after the Sabbath”;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahshua was already resurrected and did not allow Himself be touched;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:17, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My Strength and your Strength.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He had not yet ascended to YHWH to present Himself as the First-Fruits to YHWH;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:10-12, “...the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest. And he shall wave the sheaf before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for your acceptance...a male lamb a year old, a perfect one, as an ascending offering to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 4:9-10, “But what does “He went up” mean, except that He also first went down into the lower parts of the earth? He who went down is also the One who went up far above all the heavens, to fulfill.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 3:10-13, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Yisra’yl, and do not know this? Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak what We know and witness what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If you do not believe when I spoke to you about earthly matters, how are you going to believe when I speak to you about the heavenly matters? And no one has gone up into the heaven except He who came down from the heaven – the Son of Aḏam.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 1:15, "He is the image of the invisible Father, the firstborn of all creation."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 1:18, "For He is the Head of the body, the called out ones, Who is the beginning of the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the pre-eminence."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 1:5, "And from Yahshua Messiah, the faithful witness, and the firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler of future kings of the earth. To Him Who loved us and freed us from our sins by His own blood."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:17, “Bring from your dwellings for a wave offering two loaves of bread, of two-tenths of an ĕphah of fine flour they are, baked with leaven, first-fruits to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]first-fruits” is word #H1061 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]בִּכּוּר [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]bikkuwr (bik-koor') n-m., the first-fruits of the crop., [from H1069], KJV: first fruit (-ripe (figuratively)), hasty fruit., Root(s): H1069[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:20-23, “But now Messiah has been raised from the dead, and has become the first-fruit of those having fallen asleep. For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a Man. For as all die in Aḏam, so also all shall be made alive in Messiah. And each in his own order: Messiah, the first-fruits, then those who are of Messiah at His coming,”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 27:50-53, "27:50, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]cried out again with a loud voice, and gave up His spirit."27:51, "And see, the veil of the Dwelling Place was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were split,"27:52, "and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the set-apart ones who had fallen asleep were raised,"27:53, "and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they went into the set-apart city and appeared to many."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 4:4, "And around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, dressed in white robes. And they had crowns of gold on their heads."[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
7,832
359
83
#62
A Judinizer as the church today makes him is simply anyome who believes what David tells us of God in the psalms and who believes scripture.

As you deny scripture and deny the divinity of God, it is you who are not accepting Christ whose blood was shed to save you.

Perhaps you are getting the covenant made with Moses one of salvation. It was not. Salvation was and always has been through innocen6 blood. Those promises were of blessings.
The covenants are not to be mixed.

You get one or the other.

If you go back to the Ministration of Condemnation and Death then that's the covenant you have chosen.

There is another covenant that is based on much better promises and a much better mediator.


There must be a reason why people reject the New Covenant and would rather follow the "wisdom" and strength of their own carnal mind.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

These type of people is what the law was made for. They really don't want to come to the light. They really don't want to hear the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They will do just about anything to hide. Watch them twist scripture to continue in their error instead of growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's kind of sad.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
424
59
28
#63
The covenants are not to be mixed.

You get one or the other.

If you go back to the Ministration of Condemnation and Death then that's the covenant you have chosen.

There is another covenant that is based on much better promises and a much better mediator.


There must be a reason why people reject the New Covenant and would rather follow the "wisdom" and strength of their own carnal mind.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawleoss and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

These type of people is what the law was made for. They really don't want to come to the light. They really don't want to hear the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They will do just about anything to hide. Watch them twist scripture to continue in their error instead of growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's kind of sad.
I am surprised at you, Grandpa. God made a covenant with us to not send a flood again that is just how it is and you tell the Lord you will have only one covenant!!

And the Lord gave us His law for our good, yet you say you are too righteous to listen to the good God has for you!! You have tossed out the entire 119th Psalm. It is such a beautiful psalm.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,643
247
63
#64
No scripture tells u the Sabbath is the first day. There IS scripture telling us that for all the days of the week except the last day of the week we are to work but to rst on the last day. Scripture doesn't even tell us Christ rose on the first day, it tells us they discovered that Christ had risen on that day and some said that is the Christian reason they decided to change scripture.
Yes people have assumed and made a religion of it !
I can actually understand and forgive people for such an error THEN....but NOW is a different matter as we see from scripture Acts 17v30. Ears they have but do not hear !!!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,643
247
63
#65
If you wish to have two days of rest, that is your prerogative. The sabbath was given specifically to ISRAEL as their day of rest and worship, and the Lord's Day was given specifically to the CHURCH as its day of rest and worship. So if you are in the Body of Christ, the Lord's Day is your true sabbath now.

Actually Scripture does tell us that Christ arose on the first day of the week (which is the morrow after the sabbath). Christ is called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (as related to His resurrection) and the Feast of First Fruits (held on the morrow after the sabbath) was thus fulfilled in Him. The Feast of Pentecost was also held on "the morrow after the sabbath" and both of these things are very significant.

Furthermore, the New Testament Christians were already meeting on the first day of the week for rest and worship, and that too is found in Scripture. And that is because the Lord of the Sabbath arose on the Lord's Day, which was afterwards dedicated to the observance of the Lord's Supper at the Lord's Table.
You my friend are quoting and supporting what PEOPLE were doing and saying....not one scripture in support of it ....that should tell you something if you could SEE.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#66
8 Thanks so much for inviting me. I so wish I wasn't living in a body so old it wants to sleep away some days. 'There is nothing more wonderful to do than visit with others and God.

Have you studied the scripture that states the covenants. The Mosiatic covenant simply says that if you obey me I will bless you. We know that breaking a law--even the secular ones--brings on a curse.
I so agree that because we live in the world that knows sin it is impossible for us to "abide" in the Lord when the meaning of that is that we can be sinless.
LOL You have a different attitude than hubby does. His thought is, "I love to sleep. Sleep is wonderful. What good is getting old, if I don't get to enjoy sleeping longer?" LOL

(And, admittedly, kind of jealous about that. If I slept as long as he does, I'd end up with insomnia for a long time. LOL)

It's been a while since I studied the Mosaic Laws. (Two years.) But sometimes I wonder how much of a blessing they are. If I'm not mistake the Honor your mother and father one includes "that you might live a long life." I honored Dad because God told me to. And because I love him. But I'm beginning to reap that long life now, and sometimes wonder if that is a blessing. (And remember, you could be Dad's older sister.) I became disabled at 43, and the disability is chronic pain. It disabled me at 43. It's gotten worse. I am thankful that the Lord has given people the brains to create drugs that mask pain, but masking it doesn't stop it. It merely recedes it to bearable. And bearable is wavy. Sometimes bearable is go-about-my-day. Sometimes it's can't-wait-for-this-day-to-be-over.

My great-uncle and grandmother had a conversation when both of them were in their 90s. He asked her, "What did we do so wrong, that God has chosen to let us live this long We've lost our parents, most of of siblings, our spouses, and now we're losing our children to old age. What did we do so wrong?"

Both give me pause to wonder if long-life is a blessing or a curse. After all, what happens after we live long? We get eternity in bodies that don't fail us anymore, and get to spend eternity glorifying the Lord. Now that sounds like the blessing.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#67
The covenants are not to be mixed.

You get one or the other.

If you go back to the Ministration of Condemnation and Death then that's the covenant you have chosen.

There is another covenant that is based on much better promises and a much better mediator.


There must be a reason why people reject the New Covenant and would rather follow the "wisdom" and strength of their own carnal mind.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

These type of people is what the law was made for. They really don't want to come to the light. They really don't want to hear the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They will do just about anything to hide. Watch them twist scripture to continue in their error instead of growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It's kind of sad.
When it became clear I was going to marry the man who is now my husband, I panicked. He didn't come with an instruction manual, and I often fear breaking stuff. I feared I'd mistreat him and would break him.

I also had absolutely no idea what makes for a good marriage from experience. Experience only taught me what makes a bad marriage, and yet I knew God gave me this guy to love and take care of for the rest of my life.

Because of that, all I learned on how to stay in a happy marriage came from reading the Bible and praying. I really really wanted to keep hubby happy because I love him.

I really really want to keep God happy because I love him. He does tell us how he wants to be loved. I don't see the Mosaic Law as an old covenant. I see it as the instruction manual for God. How to love and take care of him, with that minor detail that he doesn't need to be taken care of, like anyone else. He still wants care, even if he doesn't need it. Our relationship is quite a bit like marriage.

Jesus boiled down the law to love God completely and love others as ourselves. The Law tells us how in a case by case situation.

It doesn't have to be followed so we maintain our salvation status. It should be followed because we love God.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#68
A Judinizer as the church today makes him is simply anyome who believes what David tells us of God in the psalms and who believes scripture.

As you deny scripture and deny the divinity of God, it is you who are not accepting Christ whose blood was shed to save you.

Perhaps you are getting the covenant made with Moses one of salvation. It was not. Salvation was and always has been through innocen6 blood. Those promises were of blessings.

uh...no

the term Judaizer already has a meaning and you do not get to redefine it. not even if your last name is Webster

Judaizers are those who try to mix together the grace of God with the OT law of God and declare that combination as the recipe for salvation

got questions explains it very nicely for those who have difficulty understanding it

Question: "Who were the Judaizers?"

Answer:
There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.

In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”

A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ. The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.

ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#69
uh...no

the term Judaizer already has a meaning and you do not get to redefine it. not even if your last name is Webster

Judaizers are those who try to mix together the grace of God with the OT law of God and declare that combination as the recipe for salvation

got questions explains it very nicely for those who have difficulty understanding it

Question: "Who were the Judaizers?"

Answer:
There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.

In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”

A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ. The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.

ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE
Sometimes Got Questions is wrong. Here is another article on what Judiazer means.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
424
59
28
#70
uh...no

the term Judaizer already has a meaning and you do not get to redefine it. not even if your last name is Webster

Judaizers are those who try to mix together the grace of God with the OT law of God and declare that combination as the recipe for salvation

got questions explains it very nicely for those who have difficulty understanding it

Question: "Who were the Judaizers?"

Answer:
There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.

In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”

A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ. The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.

ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE
I truly think that when you speak against the law you are speaking against God. I do not have a good enough mind to memorize the 119th psalm, but I wish it was a memory I could always call on.

Grace is what God does for us. Our work is to learn the way God created the way our world works and live in a way that harmonizes with that. In the extreme--criminals go to prison as a natural result of breaking that law. People with only kindness and good in their heart are happy. It is part of the law of our world. We need to learn about these laws just as we study any science.

The Jews have much to learn about grace--things our church knows and teaches. Even with that handicap they have blessings beyond any other people, blessings that we are told are also for us God's adopted people. It is not right for us, the adopted ones, to put down the guide posts to walking in the kingdom.

The Jews were guided through regulating what they ate, for example. What went in their stomach had nothing to do with their walk in the kingdom, yet God sent it to help them. They were to keep separate from heathen people, when they could not share their feasts it helped them stay separate. They were to not think impure thoughts and keeping food only what was not from garbage helped remind them. The spiritual laws they were to help with are just as true today as it is true that we have gravity. If you drop something it falls, if your mind is in the garbage, garbage happens.

Perhaps our church today excels in the knowledge to grace, but we have much to learn about walking in the kingdom. You can't walk in the kingdom and see much of what Hollywood shows, authors write, our culture tells us about what sex is and how it works or---many things.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
5,304
731
113
#71
I truly think that when you speak against the law you are speaking against God.
This "speaking against the law" is a red herring. Paul wrote clearly regarding the law... following it has no benefit to the believer in Christ, who has appropriated all things by faith rather than works of the law (see Galatians 3:1-14).
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#72
Sometimes Got Questions is wrong. Here is another article on what Judiazer means.

no they weren't wrong. it was simply not bogged down with all the history wiki included...which is fine if somebody wants to study it

I actually did consider the wiki article first so I'm not dismissing it either

the type in bold is actually a dictionary definition

it's the KISS method for explaining. if you are not acquainted with it, I can fill in the blanks :cool:
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
424
59
28
#73
When it became clear I was going to marry the man who is now my husband, I panicked. He didn't come with an instruction manual, and I often fear breaking stuff. I feared I'd mistreat him and would break him.

I also had absolutely no idea what makes for a good marriage from experience. Experience only taught me what makes a bad marriage, and yet I knew God gave me this guy to love and take care of for the rest of my life.

Because of that, all I learned on how to stay in a happy marriage came from reading the Bible and praying. I really really wanted to keep hubby happy because I love him.

I really really want to keep God happy because I love him. He does tell us how he wants to be loved. I don't see the Mosaic Law as an old covenant. I see it as the instruction manual for God. How to love and take care of him, with that minor detail that he doesn't need to be taken care of, like anyone else. He still wants care, even if he doesn't need it. Our relationship is quite a bit like marriage.

Jesus boiled down the law to love God completely and love others as ourselves. The Law tells us how in a case by case situation.

It doesn't have to be followed so we maintain our salvation status. It should be followed because we love God.
I am living a very strange life, one that is just chuck full of joy. It is as if everything has been taken from me except food, protection, and a place to sleep. And a computer. In its place God seems as close as the children were before they grew up.

I live in assisted living, my body is so old it lost its ability to balance. My family has absolutely nothing to do with me and I've outlived my friends. That was hard, so I went on a fast. I closed out everything except water, bible, and sleep. Then I listened. It took five days, but joy came.

The nurse here was sure a bully, she came in my room without knocking, frowning, hands on hips: "Are you suicidal"? No one here has a clue the our world is ruled by God and their work is to fit into that.

How I wish I could stop your pain. Here is what I did for mine. In the past I have had to learn to overcome habits of wrong thinking that had reached my subconscious. It has so bad that I found myself wondering what I had done wrong to cause it to rain!!! That took hours in the library, scripture, and lots of work. I learned meditation as deep as David speaks of in the Psalms. I used this ability I had taught myself to mentally reach inside my back where the pain was with God's power. Now the pain stays away.

Living away from the world (can't afford TV) means the worst temptation I have is the temptation to act as God taking over His work of judging people. It is such a relief to let God take care of handling other people and just enjoy them warts and all.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#74
I truly think that when you speak against the law you are speaking against God. I do not have a good enough mind to memorize the 119th psalm, but I wish it was a memory I could always call on.

Grace is what God does for us. Our work is to learn the way God created the way our world works and live in a way that harmonizes with that. In the extreme--criminals go to prison as a natural result of breaking that law. People with only kindness and good in their heart are happy. It is part of the law of our world. We need to learn about these laws just as we study any science.

The Jews have much to learn about grace--things our church knows and teaches. Even with that handicap they have blessings beyond any other people, blessings that we are told are also for us God's adopted people. It is not right for us, the adopted ones, to put down the guide posts to walking in the kingdom.

The Jews were guided through regulating what they ate, for example. What went in their stomach had nothing to do with their walk in the kingdom, yet God sent it to help them. They were to keep separate from heathen people, when they could not share their feasts it helped them stay separate. They were to not think impure thoughts and keeping food only what was not from garbage helped remind them. The spiritual laws they were to help with are just as true today as it is true that we have gravity. If you drop something it falls, if your mind is in the garbage, garbage happens.

Perhaps our church today excels in the knowledge to grace, but we have much to learn about walking in the kingdom. You can't walk in the kingdom and see much of what Hollywood shows, authors write, our culture tells us about what sex is and how it works or---many things.

uh huh

please point out where I spoke against the law

you can read both articles to understand what a Judaizer is, but they are comprised of both scripture and history

however, I would suggest you put the Bible over your own personal revelations which are not in agreement with scripture
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
424
59
28
#75
This "speaking against the law" is a red herring. Paul wrote clearly regarding the law... following it has no benefit to the believer in Christ, who has appropriated all things by faith rather than works of the law (see Galatians 3:1-14).
You are getting grace, faith, law, and obedience all mixed up.

God tells you over and over that you will be judged by what you do, you simply cannot wipe that fact out of scripture by applying other facts.

The law is not going to save you. God doesn't work that way. You are made in His image, you are wonderfully made. The power you are given in awesome. But you simply are not created in a way that lets you live in the body and earn your passport to heaven through how you work. That is done with grace. We simply know that is happening and that God is God, that is faith.

Being saved through faith sets us on a righteous path and allows us to be forgiven and made clean. It is a path shown us through laws and guides our life here as such as the tides, the sun, or gravity is guided. They are written on our hearts through the Holy Spirit, written in the word, and spread out before us for us to see.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
424
59
28
#76
uh huh

please point out where I spoke against the law

you can read both articles to understand what a Judaizer is, but they are comprised of both scripture and history

however, I would suggest you put the Bible over your own personal revelations which are not in agreement with scripture
If I don't agree with scripture, you are right in calling me on it. Truth and scripture is important, what I think has none.

What I based my --assumption?--that you spoke against OT law was this: "Judaizers are those who try to mix together the grace of God with the OT law of God and declare that combination as the recipe for salvation"

If you meant by that people said God rewards people who try to keep law with salvation, you are right. That is not the promise God ever gave for law keeping.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#77
I am living a very strange life, one that is just chuck full of joy. It is as if everything has been taken from me except food, protection, and a place to sleep. And a computer. In its place God seems as close as the children were before they grew up.

I live in assisted living, my body is so old it lost its ability to balance. My family has absolutely nothing to do with me and I've outlived my friends. That was hard, so I went on a fast. I closed out everything except water, bible, and sleep. Then I listened. It took five days, but joy came.

The nurse here was sure a bully, she came in my room without knocking, frowning, hands on hips: "Are you suicidal"? No one here has a clue the our world is ruled by God and their work is to fit into that.

How I wish I could stop your pain. Here is what I did for mine. In the past I have had to learn to overcome habits of wrong thinking that had reached my subconscious. It has so bad that I found myself wondering what I had done wrong to cause it to rain!!! That took hours in the library, scripture, and lots of work. I learned meditation as deep as David speaks of in the Psalms. I used this ability I had taught myself to mentally reach inside my back where the pain was with God's power. Now the pain stays away.

Living away from the world (can't afford TV) means the worst temptation I have is the temptation to act as God taking over His work of judging people. It is such a relief to let God take care of handling other people and just enjoy them warts and all.


Blik., I work in an assisted living company and have seen many different kinds of tenants. First I'm sending you a big

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) And wish I could minister to you physically. But I can pray for you and I feel a great desire to do so. I'm somewhat of a loner myself so I understand my only claim to survive emotionally and physically here on earth is because I have Jesus. Like you shared here in your post., I don't have the things most people have either. But when we have Jesus that is all we need and then all these other things will be added.

I know the law is so good. The law and all the old testament books are so lovely and amazing and true just as the new testament books. The Psalms are especially awesome to me and I love them and want to and will keep memorizing and reading and learning them. I know that following the 10 commandments will cause a person to live a clean life because living morally is important and good and wholesome.

The law is good and holy and right and to be desired for what it is. What it isn't is life giving. The law is all those wonderful things but the law has no power to save anyone.

So there is MORE to the truth of the law that us saved people have to understand. When Jesus came He told us what the law could NOT do.., He COULD DO.

Romans 8:1-3

Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For God has done WHAT THE LAW COULD NOT DO [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[SUP][a][/SUP]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[SUP][b][/SUP]subdued, overcame, [SUP][c][/SUP]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][d][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][e][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.


THIS IS AWESOME GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Us humans can make a good show on the outside by keeping the commandments from our flesh and even live generally good morally and healthy lives to a point. , but the law could not change our hearts. The law shows us what only the Great High Priest could only do for us we could not do ourselves.


Jesus had to make us new creations in Him. Yes the law is good and right and holy but it has no POWER. Jesus has the power and only He could save us. Today we have His righteousness and His Holy Spirit. Gal.2:20 says

[SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

I'll be praying for you sister and remembering to pray for you. Jesus loves you. :)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
7,832
359
83
#78
I am surprised at you, Grandpa. God made a covenant with us to not send a flood again that is just how it is and you tell the Lord you will have only one covenant!!

And the Lord gave us His law for our good, yet you say you are too righteous to listen to the good God has for you!! You have tossed out the entire 119th Psalm. It is such a beautiful psalm.
I was under the law, just like everyone else.

But then I came to Christ and received His Rest.

Now, I am no longer under the law. Now, the vail is removed from my mind. Now, I understand scripture.


Everyone who has been saved by Grace through Faith should know that they aren't under the law. Unfortunately, there have been judaizers from day one who want to confuse the way we relate to God.

The law is not the way to righteously Love God. Your understanding of what the law says and how to follow it falls short, very very short, of what is required to fulfill it. Your pride knows no bounds.


God made a new Covenant with us because the old Covenant was broken over and over. Why would you attempt to put a yoke on Christians that you yourself are unable to bear? It must be because you don't understand scripture. You don't understand what the law says and what we are up against. You don't understand the Rest that we receive in Christ.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Most of the Judaizers silliness is addressed in Galatians. But really, just about every epistle of Paul addresses their same error. It must be a REALLY big one.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
7,832
359
83
#79
When it became clear I was going to marry the man who is now my husband, I panicked. He didn't come with an instruction manual, and I often fear breaking stuff. I feared I'd mistreat him and would break him.

I also had absolutely no idea what makes for a good marriage from experience. Experience only taught me what makes a bad marriage, and yet I knew God gave me this guy to love and take care of for the rest of my life.

Because of that, all I learned on how to stay in a happy marriage came from reading the Bible and praying. I really really wanted to keep hubby happy because I love him.

I really really want to keep God happy because I love him. He does tell us how he wants to be loved. I don't see the Mosaic Law as an old covenant. I see it as the instruction manual for God. How to love and take care of him, with that minor detail that he doesn't need to be taken care of, like anyone else. He still wants care, even if he doesn't need it. Our relationship is quite a bit like marriage.

Jesus boiled down the law to love God completely and love others as ourselves. The Law tells us how in a case by case situation.

It doesn't have to be followed so we maintain our salvation status. It should be followed because we love God.
Well, it WAS an instruction manual.

But it was spiritual and couldn't be followed by our carnal mind and strength. Even when we think we are doing a really good job of following what we think is Gods Will, we aren't. Maybe we are doing better at what we think is Gods Will compared with how we used behave but it is still woefully short of what is required.

The only way we could properly follow it was by coming to Christ and trusting in Him.

Christ changes us into what God Wants. Christ changes you into what your husband wants.


You can try to change yourself. But you are you and you cannot change you the way God can.

I'm not saying their is no wisdom or no instruction in the law. Its just that when we come to Christ we get better understanding and a better teacher.

The law is merely a shadow of what Christ does in us and through us. The law can't make you right before God. But the Lord Jesus Christ can.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#80
If I don't agree with scripture, you are right in calling me on it. Truth and scripture is important, what I think has none.

What I based my --assumption?--that you spoke against OT law was this: "Judaizers are those who try to mix together the grace of God with the OT law of God and declare that combination as the recipe for salvation"

not even close ^^^^^

If you meant by that people said God rewards people who try to keep law with salvation, you are right. That is not the promise God ever gave for law keeping.

huh

fascinating

have you ever actually read the Bible?

you are more than a little mixed up. well, it's your muddle and you do seem to enjoy it so do carry on :rolleyes: