Do You Believe that Once Saved,AllWayS Saved?

[eternally-gratefull]

blessedfromabove



YOU SAID: "The real truth is .... we are only made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all. It is 'imputed' unto us. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and advocate and our mediator. You don't glorify Jesus at all in that statement, rather nullify the power of the cross and admit to your own sense of 'righteousness' to your own merit."


Show me in my post how what I said is any different than what you posted. Where in my post did I say anything about ME making myself righteous and that I accomplished righteousness through Myself.

If you truly believed that Jesus Christ imputeed righteousness unto you then you would not be walking around confessing that you are a sinner...why not look yourself in the mirror everyday and say....
"we are made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all."

If you did than maybe one day you will believe it and start walking in it consistently.

Who said she is not walking consistantly? You anly assume she is not because you have been spoonfed what we believe.

The difference between you and her is she walks out of Gods power and he gets the glory.

Your doing it so you can either earn salvation, or so you do not lose it. As all who do not believe is OSAS do

Huge difference there my friend!

 

[Strong1]

Do we realize friends, that when one is truly saved, I mean REALLY saved, and living according to the Word, and all that scripture teaches......How could that one lose his salvation?
It would be impossible? Wouldn't it?

They way you all constantly argue this is almost silly, because it all depends on truth and nothing more.
Why argue OSAS?
If one is truly saved then of course.
If any can lose their salvation, and seeming lives a life representitive of ungodliness, could that one be saved? Never. The issue is that persons belief system in the first place. They were never really saved. It is not God who takes their salvation away.

Why does that not seem simple enough?

 

[Crossfire]

blessedfromabove



YOU SAID: "The real truth is .... we are only made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all. It is 'imputed' unto us. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and advocate and our mediator. You don't glorify Jesus at all in that statement, rather nullify the power of the cross and admit to your own sense of 'righteousness' to your own merit."


Show me in my post how what I said is any different than what you posted. Where in my post did I say anything about ME making myself righteous and that I accomplished righteousness through Myself.

If you truly believed that Jesus Christ imputeed righteousness unto you then you would not be walking around confessing that you are a sinner...why not look yourself in the mirror everyday and say....
"we are made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all."

If you did than maybe one day you will believe it and start walking in it consistently.

Yes, Christ's righteousness is indeed 'imputed' to the believer but what most don't understand is what the righteousness of Christ really is. The righteousness of Christ is not some abstract concept. It is not some THING but rather it is some ONE. The Imputed Righteousness of Christ is the person of the Holy Spirit himself.


1 John 4: 13 (NKJ) - " By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit."

Galatians 5: 5 (NKJ) - "For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

Galatians 5: 9 (NKJ) - "(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth)"

Romans 14 : 17 - (NKJ) ".. for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Romans 8: 2 (NLT) - "And because you belong to him (Christ), the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.

Romans 8: 15 (NLT) - " So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children."

Ephesians 4:30 (NKJ) - "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Hebrews 10: 29 (NLT) - "Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us."

It is my hope that these verses help to bring clarity to some of you that the Imputed Righteous of Christ is not some inanimate object or abstract concept that we can simply ignore or overlook. The Righteous of Christ is the Holy Spirit and if you are truly saved that same Spirit now resides in you!

2 Peter 1: 2 - 11 (NKJ) - "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."

"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

 

[IMINJC]

eternally-gratefully


YOU SAID: Who said she is not walking consistantly? You anly assume she is not because you have been spoonfed what we believe.
The difference between you and her is she walks out of Gods power and he gets the glory.
Your doing it so you can either earn salvation, or so you do not lose it. As all who do not believe is OSAS do
Huge difference there my friend!


And your assumption about me is because you are spoonfed what you believe. How many times have I written that the righteousness that I do is through the power of God? Yet you continue to post that I'm being led by my own power because of your OSAS belief....that no one outside of that belief can possibly be living right under the power of God.

I made the statement about her because I do know what you believe. You think if you walk around enough confessing that you are sinners than that somehow makes you more humble before God (my bible says it means your disobedient) or glorifies Jesus in some kinda way, (my bible says it crucifies Him all over again) or excuses the sin you know your going to commit in a few hours. AS A MAN THINKS SO IS HE! Why not walk around and confess the righteousness that you are instead...AS A MAN THINKS SO IS HE!

When a person asks the question "Can I lose my Salvation?"
They are only trying to see how close to the edge they can live without falling over anyway....All we are saying is stay away from the edge and don't chance it......Don't tempt God.

 

[IMINJC]

crossfire


Preach it My brother!

 

[Crossfire]

crossfire


Preach it My brother!

Thanks but sometimes it's best to let the scriptures speak for themselves.

I wish people would just read the Bible and accept it for what it says without trying to read into it through the lense of their preferred doctrine or denomination. Not only would it make things easier on us all but it would also bring unity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally-gratefully


YOU SAID:Who said she is not walking consistantly? You anly assume she is not because you have been spoonfed what we believe.
The difference between you and her is she walks out of Gods power and he gets the glory.
Your doing it so you can either earn salvation, or so you do not lose it. As all who do not believe is OSAS do
Huge difference there my friend!


And your assumption about me is because you are spoonfed what you believe. How many times have I written that the righteousness that I do is through the power of God? Yet you continue to post that I'm being led by my own power because of your OSAS belief....that no one outside of that belief can possibly be living right under the power of God.

I made the statement about her because I do know what you believe. You think if you walk around enough confessing that you are sinners than that somehow makes you more humble before God

Thanks for proving you have UTTERLY NO CLUE WHAT I BELIEVE. I find it amazing you refuse to admit this, but continue to believe what you have been fed from your church. If you don't want to know what I believe, thats fine, but stop saying you know when you have no clue!

(my bible says it means your disobedient)

or glorifies Jesus in some kinda way, (my bible says it crucifies Him all over again) or excuses the sin you know your going to commit in a few hours. AS A MAN THINKS SO IS HE! Why not walk around and confess the righteousness that you are instead...AS A MAN THINKS SO IS HE!

When a person asks the question "Can I lose my Salvation?"
They are only trying to see how close to the edge they can live without falling over anyway....All we are saying is stay away from the edge and don't chance it......Don't tempt God.

Again we believe different. A man who has true faith would never question if he could lose it or not. he would know.

A person who asks is either

1. Seeking a fight with people who believe in OSAS
2. Does not understand the gospel so he is asking questions.
3. Is licentious and does not really want to know. Just wants to continue in sin and get a get out of jail free card. Which God will say no too every time.

You assume everyone is number three. thats why you can't see,

 

[IMINJC]

eternally-greatfull

YOU SAID: Again we believe different. A man who has true faith would never question if he could lose it or not. he would know.


I agree with you on that point...but we just don't know who these people are. When certain questions are asked we must answer them....but I do agree with your point.

 

[Tombo]

The fundamental difference here is that some believe they can initiate their salvation by their repentanace, and that if they fall into sin they lose that salvation. The biblical position is: If one continues to live in sin after "claiming" to be saved, then that person was never truly saved to begin with. This is where people who deny OSAS make their huge error. They think that if they have "free will" to "choose" Christ, then they also have the "free will" to turn away and lose what He won for them. They don't understand true grace AT ALL.
They can't seem to grasp that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is necessarily a Christian. If someone is habitually walking contrary to the gospel of Christ, it is proof positive that they never were saved in the first place, not that they lost their salvation.
But if they want to continue boasting of their "ability" to either save or doom themselves, then what more can be said? Let them live in fear, but we will live in the freedom that Jesus has gained for us. We will hang our life on Him and put no trust in the flesh.
God bless.

Tom

 

[Skinski7]

wow, you need to study more.

Romans 4:1-4

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

The word account is the same word as the word impute. they both mean the same thing!


Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

try studying more my friend!

You'll quote Romans 4:1-4 but you will never quote Romans 4:12 because it refers to doing something.

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

That is how scripture isolation works. You take a portion of scripture and rip it out of context and build a theology on it. Yet you completely ignore the context.

You are doing this...

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Romans 4:12 very clearly says that there are steps of faith. You'll ignore it.

Paul continues on and writes...

Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

A true faith is a full persuasion of the mind and thus true faith is tied to obedience.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

You'll never make the connection while you hold your theology supreme to the Bible. I have seen you do it in many posts.

You do not make a distinction in your mind between the works of faith and the works of law. In your mind you view it as faith vs action. Faith to you is just "trust." Your gospel consists of believing that Jesus did everything for you and that as long as you just trust in that then you are ok. You think that any "doing" is adding to the finished work of Christ. Your whole underlying theological system is one massive error.

You need to throw it away, count it as dung and begin again.

Every parable that Jesus taught is in the context of those that do something and those that do not do something. Your theology has to disconnect all of the teachings of Jesus from salvation. You are forced to basically deny the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Thus you will never contend for the strait gate and narrow way, picking up your cross and denying the lusts of the flesh, losing your life in order to gain it, or the myriad other teachers which clearly state you must do something. You view all those things through that "trust in the provision alone" filter.

Satan has your mind and I urge you to simply sit down and read the Gospels from start to finish and accept what they plainly state.

 

[Skinski7]

Salvation by grace through faith simple means that God is the author of salvation of those whom yield to His grace by an active obedient faith. The result is purity of heart.

2Cor 6:1 - Paul clearly says that one must be a worker together with God lest grace is received to no effect. It is not hard to understand. You are a worker together with God by faith, hence you are saved by grace through faith. That is the gift of God, the process that God has granted us to purify our hearts.

Will you reject that scripture?

Jesus said to strive to enter in at the strait gate.

Will you reject what Jesus said?

 

[cfultz3]

The fundamental difference here is that some believe they can initiate their salvation by their repentanace, and that if they fall into sin they lose that salvation. The biblical position is: If one continues to live in sin after "claiming" to be saved, then that person was never truly saved to begin with. This is where people who deny OSAS make their huge error. They think that if they have "free will" to "choose" Christ, then they also have the "free will" to turn away and lose what He won for them. They don't understand true grace AT ALL.
They can't seem to grasp that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is necessarily a Christian. If someone is habitually walking contrary to the gospel of Christ, it is proof positive that they never were saved in the first place, not that they lost their salvation.
But if they want to continue boasting of their "ability" to either save or doom themselves, then what more can be said? Let them live in fear, but we will live in the freedom that Jesus has gained for us. We will hang our life on Him and put no trust in the flesh.
God bless.

Tom

They are striving against the Spirit. The Spirit says to follow Him, they, in return, say, "allow me to cleanse myself first". Never knowing, that it is the blood of Christ which cleanses and that we are puirified not by our deeds. They will continue, it is pointless to even tell them otherwise. Lay it in God's hands.

 

[Tombo]

Salvation by grace through faith simple means that God is the author of salvation of those whom yield to His grace by an active obedient faith. The result is purity of heart.

2Cor 6:1 - Paul clearly says that one must be a worker together with God lest grace is received to no effect. It is not hard to understand. You are a worker together with God by faith, hence you are saved by grace through faith. That is the gift of God, the process that God has granted us to purify our hearts.

Will you reject that scripture?

Jesus said to strive to enter in at the strait gate.

Will you reject what Jesus said?

Just explain, for example, two men at a meeting who both hear the gospel; one believes, the other doesn't. What was the difference between the two? How did one work up this "godly sorrow" that you speak of, but the other didn't? Was the saved one better than the other? Is that why he believed?
Jesus said, "no man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Do you believe that? If God draws all men (like you claim) then why would Jesus make this distinctrion at all? Why say that "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME UNLESS"? Think about that word "unless" carefully. It describes the prerequisite to believing. GOD DRAWS HIM.
Think about it.

Tom

 

[Skinski7]

The fundamental difference here is that some believe they can initiate their salvation by their repentanace, and that if they fall into sin they lose that salvation. The biblical position is: If one continues to live in sin after "claiming" to be saved, then that person was never truly saved to begin with. This is where people who deny OSAS make their huge error. They think that if they have "free will" to "choose" Christ, then they also have the "free will" to turn away and lose what He won for them. They don't understand true grace AT ALL.
They can't seem to grasp that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is necessarily a Christian. If someone is habitually walking contrary to the gospel of Christ, it is proof positive that they never were saved in the first place, not that they lost their salvation.
But if they want to continue boasting of their "ability" to either save or doom themselves, then what more can be said? Let them live in fear, but we will live in the freedom that Jesus has gained for us. We will hang our life on Him and put no trust in the flesh.
God bless.

Tom

God initiates salvation through calling all men through His abundant grace.

Stop creating these strawman positions to attack. Instead deal with the actual facts otherwise you are lying.

Stop lying.

Salvation is being set free from sin. It is not a package or a ticket in your back pocket. If one is sinning they have not been set free.

Why not address that issue?

Explain how one can be saved yet at the same time be in rebellion to God and still in bondage to sin? What have they actually been saved from?

Salvation to you is simply a wrath escape.

You'll never refer to this scripture.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The scripture clearly says what grace teaches.

You'll never refer to Charis which is the Greek word for grace.

charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

The divine influence of God on your heart teaches you.

Thus you won't connect grace to understanding or knowledge.

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Under this delusion you'll never connect that one must yield to grace and apply what it teaches by faith.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Or that it is in the application of grace that purity results.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

There is absolutely no saving dynamic in your false gospel. The professing believer remains in bondage to the lusts of the flesh holding to a false confidence because they received the so called "package" of salvation. No-one can take away the package. It is fiction.

 

[Skinski7]

Just explain, for example, two men at a meeting who both hear the gospel; one believes, the other doesn't. What was the difference between the two? How did one work up this "godly sorrow" that you speak of, but the other didn't? Was the saved one better than the other? Is that why he believed?
Jesus said, "no man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Do you believe that? If God draws all men (like you claim) then why would Jesus make this distinctrion at all? Why say that NO MAN CAN COME TO ME UNLESS? Think about that word "unless" carefully. It describes the prerequisite to believing. GOD DRAWS HIM.
Think about it.

Tom

I have clearly said many times that God draws all men. You just ignore it. In your mind you keep falsely concluding that I hold to beliefs that I do not or you are simply willfully lying and trying to portray what I say in a different light by twisting it.

Light has been given to all men and grace has appeared to all men. It is the same thing.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

I could repeat is another fifty times but your eyes are closed.

You hold to the error of inability because you believe that all men are born sinners and thus have no free will. You view actual sin as a symptom of a nature you are born with.

Sin is a choice. Sin is rooted in the will when the lusts of the flesh are yielded to in disobedience to known light.

Godly sorrow is attained through deep reflection as one yields to the light of truth. It is God working within an individual with the individual yielding to that work of God. I have said this many times to you yet you keep ignoring it and repeating your strawman.

 

[cfultz3]

Katy,

I like your post and you speak simply. So, I will ask you to answer this, the only thing which keeps me from believing in OSAS. Thank you for your time, that is, if you would.

Heb 6:4-5, where it is speaking of apostating (KJV: fall away).

 

[Tombo]

They are striving against the Spirit. The Spirit says to follow Him, they, in return, say, "allow me to cleanse myself first". Never knowing, that it is the blood of Christ which cleanses and that we are puirified not by our deeds. They will continue, it is pointless to even tell them otherwise. Lay it in God's hands.

I think you are right about these men, cfultz, they are hardened in their position. We must leave it in God's hands. I know that since God saved me, no one is beyond hope. Their problem is not that they don't see, it's that they don't like what they see. The think it isn't fair.
Oh well, at least some of us here are giving people the proper presentation of the Gospel. Be like the tax collector; don't even presume to look up to God, but say, "God be merciful to me a sinner." You will be the one who walks away justified, rather than the one who tries to sway God by his "good works."
God bless.

Tom

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You'll quote Romans 4:1-4 but you will never quote Romans 4:12 because it refers to doing something.

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

That is how scripture isolation works. You take a portion of scripture and rip it out of context and build a theology on it. Yet you completely ignore the context.

You are doing this...

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Romans 4:12 very clearly says that there are steps of faith. You'll ignore it.

Paul continues on and writes...

Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

A true faith is a full persuasion of the mind and thus true faith is tied to obedience.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

You'll never make the connection while you hold your theology supreme to the Bible. I have seen you do it in many posts.

You do not make a distinction in your mind between the works of faith and the works of law. In your mind you view it as faith vs action. Faith to you is just "trust." Your gospel consists of believing that Jesus did everything for you and that as long as you just trust in that then you are ok. You think that any "doing" is adding to the finished work of Christ. Your whole underlying theological system is one massive error.

You need to throw it away, count it as dung and begin again.

Every parable that Jesus taught is in the context of those that do something and those that do not do something. Your theology has to disconnect all of the teachings of Jesus from salvation. You are forced to basically deny the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Thus you will never contend for the strait gate and narrow way, picking up your cross and denying the lusts of the flesh, losing your life in order to gain it, or the myriad other teachers which clearly state you must do something. You view all those things through that "trust in the provision alone" filter.

Satan has your mind and I urge you to simply sit down and read the Gospels from start to finish and accept what they plainly state.

Oh I see, Paul contradicted himself.

Abraham was not found by works. Else he boast. But later he says he was saved by works.

You don't get it because you can't see it. Paul said he proved he had faith by the works which ALL people who have FAITH WILL DO.

Do I want to follow your contradictory interpretation? Or the word of God via Paul.

I will chose paul. I pray you do also!

 

[Crossfire]

Imputation is a false teaching, not in the word of God>

Provisional or practical?​

Roman's 5:8 But God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us..
Many professing Christians will use this verse to back up their belief, that we can remain IN our sins and still be heaven bound! Nothing could be further from the truth. I believe this fallacy comes from the great substitution lie, taught in multitudes of churches across the world, where Jesus took our place and sins on the cross, became obedient for us, and why? Because we were all born depraved, or inherited the so called sin nature from Adam, leaving us totally incapable to stop any sin,, walk a pure and holy life, and produce good fruit on our own. So this verse is rendered void in their minds! Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
So then we are brought into the kingdom as a vile sinner, no questions asked, Jesus died for us to remain yet sinners as they translate the verse. But if you take the time to seek truth, you will find no such teaching exists in the scriptures. Christ did die while we were all yet sinners, BUT now here is the great dilemma!
Did He die to be our provision(take our place, thus becoming a lump of sin on the cross) Or did He die as a ransom for many, Mar 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many. To die on our behalf, not our place, a sinless sin offering not a replacement, where the power of His blood frees us from the bondage's of sin, not cover us in our sins, as most teach today. Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority(power) of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
So God demonstrated His love toward us, by offering up His son, Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Now those who were in their sins do not stay in their sins, unless they want the wrath of God to abide on them! Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
Jesus isn't our provision, substitution, replacement, or our righteousness, no He is the sinless son of God incarnate, which has come to set the captives free practically, not provisionally,
Joh 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Now freedom only comes from a repentant heart, 2 Corinthians 7-10-11, which must be proven by deeds, followed by a loving obedient faith in love and heart purity.
Thus we have free will and ability, and are called to offer our bodies up as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Which then translates to walking upright with Christ, following Him and His example, by remaining pure and undefiled from the world and the corrupting influence of sin and death, brought into the wonderful light, through His great sacrifice dying on our behalf, not in our place.
Remember,1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Christ died while we were still in our sins, but this doesn't give us the option to continue in those sins claiming we are saved in them, we are saved out of them practically by actually doing something! Repent or perish! Luke 3-13!
Tommy 2-2-12

*shaking head*

Apparently you are as clueless as your opponents in this debate pertaining to the origins of the righteousness of Christ and how we partake of such righteousness. The righteousness of Christ is the indwelling Holy Spirit. We are made righteous not by our works per say but by abiding walking in His Spirit (presence) which is the escape from temptation mentioned in 1st Cor 10:13

Yes, Christ's righteousness is indeed 'imputed' to the believer but what most don't understand is what the righteousness of Christ really is. The righteousness of Christ is not some abstract concept. It is not some THING but rather it is some ONE. The Imputed Righteousness of Christ is the person of the Holy Spirit himself.


1 John 4: 13 (NKJ) - " By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit."

Galatians 5: 5 (NKJ) - "For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

Galatians 5: 9 (NKJ) - "(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth)"

Romans 14 : 17 - (NKJ) ".. for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Romans 8: 2 (NLT) - "And because you belong to him (Christ), the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.

Romans 8: 15 (NLT) - " So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children."

Ephesians 4:30 (NKJ) - "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Hebrews 10: 29 (NLT) - "Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us."

It is my hope that these verses help to bring clarity to some of you that the Imputed Righteous of Christ is not some inanimate object or abstract concept that we can simply ignore or overlook. The Righteous of Christ is the Holy Spirit and if you are truly saved that same Spirit now resides in you!

2 Peter 1: 2 - 11 (NKJ) - "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."

"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

 

[Tombo]

I have clearly said many times that God draws all men. You just ignore it. In your mind you keep falsely concluding that I hold to beliefs that I do not or you are simply willfully lying and trying to portray what I say in a different light by twisting it.

Light has been given to all men and grace has appeared to all men. It is the same thing.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

I could repeat is another fifty times but your eyes are closed.

You hold to the error of inability because you believe that all men are born sinners and thus have no free will. You view actual sin as a symptom of a nature you are born with.

Sin is a choice. Sin is rooted in the will when the lusts of the flesh are yielded to in disobedience to known light.

Godly sorrow is attained through deep reflection as one yields to the light of truth. It is God working within an individual with the individual yielding to that work of God. I have said this many times to you yet you keep ignoring it and repeating your strawman.

This post shows clearly that you either don't understand the Bible at all, or, as I've said in the previous post, you don't like what it really says.
God does not draw all men. If God wanted all people saved, guess what, all would be saved. It has nothing to do with our repentance or good works, but solely on God's free grace and mercy.

Tom