Do You Believe that Once Saved,AllWayS Saved?

[Skinski7]

Where does the godly sorrow come from??? If someone has godly sorrow for thier sins, it means that God has saved that person and put that sorrow for sin within their heart. IT DOES NOT COME FROM THEMSELVES. Why you can't understsand that is beyond me.
Give ALL GLORY TO GOD FOR YOUR SALVATION. Be like the publican and humble yourself. Your only contribution to your salvation is being a sinner. We must pray like the publican, "God be merciful to me, a sinner."
If you still want to rely on "your" godly sorrow, or "your" repentance, be my guest. But you will not stand before God boasting of your good works.
God bless.

Tom

Why reject what the Bible plainly states? I just do not understand.

How on earth do you conclude that godly sorrowing working to repentance unto salvation is equivalent to boasting to God in your good works and taking the glory away from God? You so desperately want a salvation message with no conditions.

By rejecting what the Bible plainly teaches you are rejecting the counsel of God. That is a deadly thing to do.


Godly sorrow is worked through yielding to the light that God has given all men. It is a very humbling and unpleasant experience but it produces the change of mind which is necessary for one to turn from their old ways and yield to the new ways.

2Co 7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.




Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Luk 14:8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
Luk 14:9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Luk 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Joh_12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Repentance is not simply saying sorry for your sins, it is something much deeper than that. Repentance is wrought of a crisis of conviction within the soul where a true understanding of one's position before a holy God becomes evident. A full realisation of the nature of sin, judgment, one's guilt, one's selfishness, all comes into clear focus.

It is through this that the desires actually change for real and the old man with the old ways are put off. Sin becomes abhorrent and is viewed as deadly and a true fear of God is produced. God then responds to this crying out for mercy by raising you up to newness of life.

The rebellion within has been completely purged and one then finds themselves clear of one's wrong doing yet a babe in Christ willing to yield to the leading of the Spirit.

Th early church taught it like this...

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]By and by, promising freely the grace which in the last times He was intending to pour as a flood of light on the universal world through His Spirit, He bade the baptism of repentance lead the way, with the view of first preparing, by means of the sign and seal of repentance, them whom He was calling, through grace, to (inherit) the promise surely made to Abraham. John holds not his peace, saying, "Enter upon repentance, for now shall salvation approach the nations" -the Lord, that is, bringing salvation according to God's promise. To Him John, as His harbinger, directed the repentance (which he preached), whose province was the purging of men's minds, that whatever defilement inveterate error had imparted, whatever contamination in the heart of man ignorance had engendered, that repentance should sweep and scrape away, and cast out of doors, and thus prepare the home of the heart, by making it clean, for the Holy Spirit, who was about to supervene, that He might with pleasure introduce Himself there-into, together with His celestial blessings.[/FONT]

Tertullian



There is no doubt that repentance is sourced from God for it is God who grants it. It is God who provides the initial light that one is convicted by. Yet this light is not a result of salvation for God has given a measure of light to all men.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

None can come to God unless God first calls them. All men are called through the light of conscience, if their was no initial drawing by God men would remain in darkness without hope.

Everyman is fully capable of repentance lest they have suppressed the light and been given over to reprobation by God. This is why repentance is never a guaranteed for anyone, it is not an easy thing to find, especially for one who has hardened their heart through continued sinning which is nurtured through suppressing the light of conscience.

 

[radpit]

When it says in says in his word you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,who is the guarantee of our inheritance Until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph1:13-14 that seems pretty permanent to me. But hey what do I know it's just the Bible.

 

[Skinski7]

When it says in says in his word you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,who is the guarantee of our inheritance Until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph1:13-14 that seems pretty permanent to me. But hey what do I know it's just the Bible.

Eph_1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

2Co_1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co_5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Earnest - arrhabōn
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.

This pledge of the Spirit is like the down payment on a house. God gives those who come into Christ a down payment in regards to the promises. Yet this does not negate the upkeep of the mortgage lest foreclosure occur.

It is very foolish to go through the Bible and quote mine all the promises and completely ignore all the conditions. One can do that if they like but all they are doing is deceiving themselves in order to foster a fiction in the mind. The scriptures are harmonious and must be read as a whole comparing scripture to scripture.

There is plenty of rope in the Bible to hang yourself with if you do not truly want the truth. An individual can prove pretty much anything with the Bible by twisting various passages out of context. Yet one does this to their own destruction.

The Bible is not a menu where one can pick and choose what suits them whilst ignoring what is not liked. To do that is to be willingly ignorant.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Strong - energeia
From G1756; efficiency (“energy&#8221: - operation, strong, (effectual) working.

The same word in "strong delusion" is used in Col 2:12 translated as "operation."

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

If God sends this strong delusion to envelope your mind you will be without hope because it will be a working of God.

A Christian must endure to the end and hold fast to their faith lest they fall away.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Castaway - adokimos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Jas_5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Abide - menō
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The important thing to ask yourself is this. Can I ever be good enough to earn Gods love and eternal life.

If you answer this correctly, You will answer the question with ease!

 

[Tombo]

The important thing to ask yourself is this. Can I ever be good enough to earn Gods love and eternal life.

If you answer this correctly, You will answer the question with ease!

You'd be surprised how hard it is for some to answer that question correctly!!!! It is so sad, but true.
Does a sick person make themselves well first before calling for a physician??? That is what some here are trying to do, and are teaching others to do the same. The sick calling on the sick to cure themselves before going to the Great Physician of our souls.
May God open their eyes and heart.
God bless.

Tom

 

[Broern]

Salvation is free but not cheap as some have thought of. GOD paid a price for salvation and offered it to man. On God side salvation stays and always will remain with men. But men have the free will to remain always saved or exit being save. Hypocrites love this OSAS idea.

 

[Tombo]

Salvation is free but not cheap as some have thought of. GOD paid a price for salvation and offered it to man. On God side salvation stays and always will remain with men. But men have the free will to remain always saved or exit being save. Hypocrites love this OSAS idea.

And the proud love to cling to the flase notion that their works save them, and what they continue to do keeps them saved. The devil loves to have it so!!!! I've shown sooooooooooo many times from Romans that a true Christian will not remain in sin, it is impossible since God the Spirit indwells us.. Our repentance and good works flow from our salvation, in gratitude for what God has done for us. It is the Spirit Himself who enables us to repent and do any works that are pleasing to God, we have no goodness in ourselves. Jesus said, "without me, you can DO NOTHING".
Give all glory to God.
God bless.

Tom

 

[IMINJC]

Skinkski7



YOU SAID: It is very foolish to go through the Bible and quote all the promises and completely ignore all the conditions.


Great quote.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation is free but not cheap as some have thought of. GOD paid a price for salvation and offered it to man. On God side salvation stays and always will remain with men. But men have the free will to remain always saved or exit being save. Hypocrites love this OSAS idea.

God does not remove free will your right.

However, God is omniscient, He know who has true faith, Whoever does will never leave.

he also knows who has mere belief, And he will not save them, they prove themselves by departing, But as the apostle John tells us, they never were of us (saved) they departed to PROVE they were never of us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So why has one one answered?

Can we ever be good enough to earn Gods love or eternal life?

 

[blessedfromabove]

Yes I believe it ... I was saved in a church that believed the opposite... and I saw the fruits evident of such a doctrine which were not good at all. It doesn't glorify Jesus and that fact that He paid the price in FULL for ALL sin if we are to believe we can have the ability to MAINTAIN our salvation. It then becomes WORKS based... which then brings us back to the LAW of sin, which is unable to save and brings a curse.

He promised to complete the work He began in us... He is working in us to do and will for His good pleasure, not the other way around. God is sovereign ... if we really believe this and that His love is unconditional.... and it is by GRACE we have been saved (undeserved favor).... all those 'conditions' of salvation are not applicable. Many of those scriptures are not literally directed at the 'church' either but for the Jews (Jesus came for the Jews). Rightly dividing the word of God is what we need to pray for! Follow the teachings of Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. I no longer live in fear or worry of my salvation like I used to ... and now I have much fruit to show of it. I am being perfected in His love (casts our fear) and it is His spirit working within me that enables me to move forward. Saved people are sensitive to 'sin' and feel conviction. God allows this and this is His way of 'chastising us'. People are concerned this will lead to an abuse of grace... rather it has led to a greater love and gratefulness on my part, which is the source of my motivation to share His love with others... else it is in my own strength.

How on earth could you ever 'know' when you have 'lost' your salvation? Or for that matter KNOW that you are saved if you believe this? There is such a thing as condemnation, which Romans 8: 1 says we no longer have. The moment we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we are 'sealed' with the Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13) and Romans 8:15 (For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.&#8221. I used to live in that 'fear' of not knowing if I was saved, especially at times when I was 'struggling' in the flesh early on in my walk. Paul spoke of his struggle with the flesh and considered himself to be the chief of all sinners. There is no small or big sin to God... sin is sin.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

David even spoke of presumptuous sins (hidden sins)....so UNLESS you are repenting 24/7... you really could not guarantee your own salvation at all really?
If you were to live a godly life (in your own eyes) and one day 'stumble'.... then you were to pass into eternity without 'repenting' and turning from that sin (no matter how big or small).... would you then be cast into hell with the rest of the non believers? There are goats among the sheep the bible talks about, tares amongst the wheat, vessels of dishonor amongst vessels of honor... God knows. Jesus will say, 'Depart from me for I never knew you...' - all those who did things in His name. They are those included in the apostacy. Truly saved people will not fall away.

Lastly, as I parent.... I can partially understand the father heart of God. He has begotten us as His own. When our own children 'fail' and are disobedient... our heart is not to disown them but to restore them. One sheep goes astray... Jesus' heart is to bring that sheep back into the fold into safety. Our 'works' will be burned up (2 Corinthians) but even those who will suffer loss (unfaithful, etc)...will still be saved through the fire. Jesus' sacrifice was that powerful!

 

[IMINJC]

eternally-greatfull


YOU SAID: The important thing to ask yourself is this. Can I ever be good enough to earn Gods love and eternal life.

If you answer this correctly, You will answer the question with ease!

We all know what the Bible says about being saved by grace and not works that any Man can boast about, but the Bible says many other things about the behavior and attitude and faith of the believer as well, spoken by Jesus and all of the disciples.

Not adding or considering those things with your question above makes the question sound like a "cop-out." "Well since I can never be good enough to earn God's love and eternal life...why should I try?"

Jesus made us righteous beings upon our faith in His death burrial and resurrection....Why?...To be consistent servants of sin?...To always be under-achievers and not overcomers?.....To continue to allow our flesh to lead us around like it has us on a leash?....NO...He made us righteous beings to carry out righteous WORKS in the flesh so that we are proper respectful wittnesses for Him, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us accomplish this on a daily basis.

When we truly believe God's Word that Christ has made us righteous, we will begin to understand that we no longer need to work to achieve righteousness, because we already are righteous. If we are already made righteous by Christ, then the righteousness that I do is not by my power or effort, is it not the Lord that does it through me? Dogs bark, Cat's climb trees, lion's roar and righteous people do righteous things. All we have to do is just be who we are, the problem is we keep confessing that we are poor lowly sinners and not the righteous beings that the bible says that we are.

GALATIONS 2:20-21
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[e]

 

[blessedfromabove]

And the proud love to cling to the flase notion that their works save them, and what they continue to do keeps them saved. The devil loves to have it so!!!! I've shown sooooooooooo many times from Romans that a true Christian will not remain in sin, it is impossible since God the Spirit indwells us.. Our repentance and good works flow from our salvation, in gratitude for what God has done for us. It is the Spirit Himself who enables us to repent and do any works that are pleasing to God, we have no goodness in ourselves. Jesus said, "without me, you can DO NOTHING".
Give all glory to God.
God bless.

Tom

Amen and Amen!!!!!!!

 

[Tombo]

Yes I believe it ... I was saved in a church that believed the opposite... and I saw the fruits evident of such a doctrine which were not good at all. It doesn't glorify Jesus and that fact that He paid the price in FULL for ALL sin if we are to believe we can have the ability to MAINTAIN our salvation. It then becomes WORKS based... which then brings us back to the LAW of sin, which is unable to save and brings a curse.

He promised to complete the work He began in us... He is working in us to do and will for His good pleasure, not the other way around. God is sovereign ... if we really believe this and that His love is unconditional.... and it is by GRACE we have been saved (undeserved favor).... all those 'conditions' of salvation are not applicable. Many of those scriptures are not literally directed at the 'church' either but for the Jews (Jesus came for the Jews). Rightly dividing the word of God is what we need to pray for! Follow the teachings of Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. I no longer live in fear or worry of my salvation like I used to ... and now I have much fruit to show of it. I am being perfected in His love (casts our fear) and it is His spirit working within me that enables me to move forward. Saved people are sensitive to 'sin' and feel conviction. God allows this and this is His way of 'chastising us'. People are concerned this will lead to an abuse of grace... rather it has led to a greater love and gratefulness on my part, which is the source of my motivation to share His love with others... else it is in my own strength.

How on earth could you ever 'know' when you have 'lost' your salvation? Or for that matter KNOW that you are saved if you believe this? There is such a thing as condemnation, which Romans 8: 1 says we no longer have. The moment we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we are 'sealed' with the Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13) and Romans 8:15 (For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”). I used to live in that 'fear' of not knowing if I was saved, especially at times when I was 'struggling' in the flesh early on in my walk. Paul spoke of his struggle with the flesh and considered himself to be the chief of all sinners. There is no small or big sin to God... sin is sin.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

David even spoke of presumptuous sins (hidden sins)....so UNLESS you are repenting 24/7... you really could not guarantee your own salvation at all really?
If you were to live a godly life (in your own eyes) and one day 'stumble'.... then you were to pass into eternity without 'repenting' and turning from that sin (no matter how big or small).... would you then be cast into hell with the rest of the non believers? There are goats among the sheep the bible talks about, tares amongst the wheat, vessels of dishonor amongst vessels of honor... God knows. Jesus will say, 'Depart from me for I never knew you...' - all those who did things in His name. They are those included in the apostacy. Truly saved people will not fall away.

Lastly, as I parent.... I can partially understand the father heart of God. He has begotten us as His own. When our own children 'fail' and are disobedient... our heart is not to disown them but to restore them. One sheep goes astray... Jesus' heart is to bring that sheep back into the fold into safety. Our 'works' will be burned up (2 Corinthians) but even those who will suffer loss (unfaithful, etc)...will still be saved through the fire. Jesus' sacrifice was that powerful!

Why are all the good ones married. Seriously, I have to say a big AMEN to your post. You truly understand the true grace of God.
God bless, and welcome to Christian Chat.

Tom

 

[blessedfromabove]

...the problem is we keep confessing that we are poor lowly sinners and not the righteous beings that the bible says that we are.

The real truth is .... we are only made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all. It is 'imputed' unto us. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and advocate and our mediator. You don't glorify Jesus at all in that statement, rather nullify the power of the cross and admit to your own sense of 'righteousness' to your own merit.

The bible says our good works are like filthy rags and speaks endlessly about our sinful condition. Paul never boasted in his righteousness... rather in the goodness of Christ. He even called himself the chief of all sinners. Now if that's not a reference to himself being 'lowly' then I don't know what is! Thank God for His redemption!

 

[Tommy4Christ]

The real truth is .... we are only made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all. It is 'imputed' unto us. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and advocate and our mediator. You don't glorify Jesus at all in that statement, rather nullify the power of the cross and admit to your own sense of 'righteousness' to your own merit.

The bible says our good works are like filthy rags and speaks endlessly about our sinful condition. Paul never boasted in his righteousness... rather in the goodness of Christ. He even called himself the chief of all sinners. Now if that's not a reference to himself being 'lowly' then I don't know what is! Thank God for His redemption!

Imputation is a false teaching, not in the word of God>

Provisional or practical?​

Roman's 5:8 But God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us..
Many professing Christians will use this verse to back up their belief, that we can remain IN our sins and still be heaven bound! Nothing could be further from the truth. I believe this fallacy comes from the great substitution lie, taught in multitudes of churches across the world, where Jesus took our place and sins on the cross, became obedient for us, and why? Because we were all born depraved, or inherited the so called sin nature from Adam, leaving us totally incapable to stop any sin,, walk a pure and holy life, and produce good fruit on our own. So this verse is rendered void in their minds! Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
So then we are brought into the kingdom as a vile sinner, no questions asked, Jesus died for us to remain yet sinners as they translate the verse. But if you take the time to seek truth, you will find no such teaching exists in the scriptures. Christ did die while we were all yet sinners, BUT now here is the great dilemma!
Did He die to be our provision(take our place, thus becoming a lump of sin on the cross) Or did He die as a ransom for many, Mar 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many. To die on our behalf, not our place, a sinless sin offering not a replacement, where the power of His blood frees us from the bondage's of sin, not cover us in our sins, as most teach today. Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority(power) of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
So God demonstrated His love toward us, by offering up His son, Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Now those who were in their sins do not stay in their sins, unless they want the wrath of God to abide on them! Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
Jesus isn't our provision, substitution, replacement, or our righteousness, no He is the sinless son of God incarnate, which has come to set the captives free practically, not provisionally,
Joh 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Now freedom only comes from a repentant heart, 2 Corinthians 7-10-11, which must be proven by deeds, followed by a loving obedient faith in love and heart purity.
Thus we have free will and ability, and are called to offer our bodies up as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Which then translates to walking upright with Christ, following Him and His example, by remaining pure and undefiled from the world and the corrupting influence of sin and death, brought into the wonderful light, through His great sacrifice dying on our behalf, not in our place.
Remember,1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Christ died while we were still in our sins, but this doesn't give us the option to continue in those sins claiming we are saved in them, we are saved out of them practically by actually doing something! Repent or perish! Luke 3-13!
Tommy 2-2-12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We all know what the Bible says about being saved by grace and not works that any Man can boast about, but the Bible says many other things about the behavior and attitude and faith of the believer as well, spoken by Jesus and all of the disciples.

Yes it did!

It says what we are before we are saved. And how after we are saved we WILL have the behavior and attitude which comes form the faith which is able to save us. Not that we might, huge difference!

Not adding or considering those things with your question above makes the question sound like a "cop-out."

Nope not a cop-out, Just a simple little question. Which if we answer. we will understand what eternal life really is.

"Well since I can never be good enough to earn God's love and eternal life...why should I try?"

Try what? earning Gods love and eternal life? This was the question to begin with. Can we ever do this? am not asking what a person saved should do. I am asking if or not anyone can do it.

Jesus made us righteous beings upon our faith in His death burrial and resurrection....Why?...To be consistent servants of sin?...To always be under-achievers and not overcomers?.....To continue to allow our flesh to lead us around like it has us on a leash?....NO...He made us righteous beings to carry out righteous WORKS in the flesh so that we are proper respectful wittnesses for Him, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us accomplish this on a daily basis.

Amen, And eph 2: 10 as well as many other passages say those who are saved By Christ WILL do these things. does it not? But again, this does not answer the question now does it. Even if we do these things. will we be good enough to earn Gods love and eternal life?

When we truly believe God's Word that Christ has made us righteous, we will begin to understand that we no longer need to work to achieve righteousness, because we already are righteous. If we are already made righteous by Christ, then the righteousness that I do is not by my power or effort, is it not the Lord that does it through me? Dogs bark, Cat's climb trees, lion's roar and righteous people do righteous things. All we have to do is just be who we are, the problem is we keep confessing that we are poor lowly sinners and not the righteous beings that the bible says that we are.

Yes, this is exactly what placing ourselves under law does. We see our sin and our inablilty to be sinless, thus we think we have never made it so why bother trying. God will never love me.

Or worse yet. We hide our sin, Lie to ourselves and say we are not sinners, or look at ourselves with judgmental eyes to the world who are worse sinners than us, in order to do nothing but make ourselves feel better about our own good deeds. You know, like the pharisees did?

Instead of looking at God like a father, Who made us righteous before him based on his son, and not on our merit or good deeds. Then we can realise when we do falter (which will happen from time to time) God will not kick us out of his family. But welcome us with open, disciplinary arms.

GALATIONS 2:20-21

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[e]

Again Amen. So why do we keep putting ourselves under law, and saying we are saved by it?

so again I ask. Can I ever be good enough to earn Gods love and eternal life.

 

[blessedfromabove]

Thanks for that Tom! hmmmm. got it from this scripture for example';

In Romans 4:11 he said, “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also”

..but will continue to study the W.O.G like a good berean. God bless <><

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Imputation is a false teaching, not in the word of God>

wow, you need to study more.

Romans 4:1-4

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

The word account is the same word as the word impute. they both mean the same thing!


Romans 4:6
just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

try studying more my friend!

 

[IMINJC]

blessedfromabove



YOU SAID: "The real truth is .... we are only made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all. It is 'imputed' unto us. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and advocate and our mediator. You don't glorify Jesus at all in that statement, rather nullify the power of the cross and admit to your own sense of 'righteousness' to your own merit."


Show me in my post how what I said is any different than what you posted. Where in my post did I say anything about ME making myself righteous and that I accomplished righteousness through Myself.

If you truly believed that Jesus Christ imputeed righteousness unto you then you would not be walking around confessing that you are a sinner...why not look yourself in the mirror everyday and say....
"we are made righteous through Jesus Christ's sacrifice once and for all."

If you did than maybe one day you will believe it and start walking in it consistently.