Do you support female pastors?

[dcontroversal]

The question might arise whether or not Paul was correct when he said women should be silent in church. Jesus said we should be just. I think justice is self-evident, and it seems unjust to me to prohibit women from speaking in church.

One thing that seems to be forgotten when Paul is mentioned by almost everyone who states such things as is stated here and that is, PAUL WAS INSPIRED BY GOD TO WRITE WHAT WAS WRITTEN...If you disagree with the inspired word of God, then you disagree with what God thinks, and what God inspired Paul to write. If you disagree that Paul was inspired by God then you by default reject almost half of the N.T. and view it as not inspired.

 

[tucksma]

...With reference to 1titus 2:11-13 which says (NKJV) 'let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man but to be silent... (some one quoted that)

I am a preacher (cause I preach the word) and have spoken in fellowships and unions. I was the secretary then moved to vice chairperson or chairlady for the school fellowship and the school was co-education. My post meant standing in front of the whole school every Sunday fellowship (which was compulsory for everbody else) and running the executive meetings. When my chairperson was absent, I took his position which was usual cause he was usually caught up but that didn't make much of a difference cause we always equally shared duties.

Currently by His grace, I run a devotion at my university and im also a sunday school teacher. And through that God has encouraged many and many have heard the gospel and even come to Christ. I do not mean to boast ( I will boast only in the Lord!) but I just had to speak out...

I will not let anyone look down on me because I am young or that im female...but if God wants to use me, who am I to say no. Besides isn't it what we all want, to be used by God...

If I was disobeying God's law, I don't think He would have allowed me into all this, I don't think he would have given me the grace to do all this and on top of that answered my prayers everytime I asked Him to help me prepare a message. If I was breaking the law by preaching His word, then I think He would have said so a long time ago!...

If all women sat back and said 'oh we are women, we cant preach in church' then the harvest is going to take forever because the labourers will be badly reduced!!! I think God will accept all the help He can get right now knowing that we don't have much time left...

So if female pastors, preachers and those holding high spiritual positions are demonic because its unbiblical, then there are a lot of us out there. Also then im really impressed that God can use a 'demonic' means to bring people to His kingdom...its just smart.

You know its funny, here we are talking about who should be allowed to preach and who shouldn't...I wish to see a discussion where we will focus on talking about how we should preach or where and when...not which sex should be allowed to do so. #opinion
"Thank you Lord for allowing me to post this." Romans 14:16 "therefore, do not let your good be spoken of as evil."
God bless!!

One thing I think you are misunderstanding is we are not saying women cannot preach, we are saying they cannot lead a church. Teaching children is absolutely okay, as well and spreading the good news and is recommended! We are specifically talking about being a pastor, or leading a church.

See the difference?

Also its not demonic, just unbiblical. There is a difference.

God can take a nonbiblical situation and make it beneficial, he does it all the time.

 

[tucksma]

Actually, the word "pastor" is not really found in the New Testament, in Greek. The only word that is found is "shepherd" which is τοὺς δὲ ποιμένας or tous de poimenas which means "and some shepherds."

"11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" Eph. 4:11 KJV

There is no qualification by gender anywhere in the New Testament, even in the KJV. "Some" means those who are called by God. It means men or women.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

 

[secularhermit]

Re: Do you support female pastors?

No, unless THEY TEACH women or children.

This to show how: http://christianchat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68230&thumb=1&d=1388685798

 

[tucksma]

This to show how: http://christianchat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68230&thumb=1&d=1388685798

That is kinda disrespectful. Honestly I will admit there are some women who can be pastors MUCH BETTER than most men. Does that justify them being a pastor? Not one bit. The word of God holds true. I'm not saying women are inferior, I'm simply saying the word of God says then cannot lead a church, so I side with God that they cannot lead a church.

 

[secularhermit]

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

There is when PAUL seems to be RUDE... But it´s not a teaching of Paul, but from the O.T.

My ex-wife usually disregarded that as "machism", but I have read that "machism" on Genesis, after Eve gave Adam that "desirable" fruit no one knows...

Both men and women dislake being under authority or subjection. In fact, that´s why I stopped going to some churches: If I am not under the "ruling power" I WON´T BE SAVED...

I thank GOD that John the Baptist attended another Church -in the desert- and, that man crucified with JESUS needed nothing but REPENTANCE, a changing of MIND to be invited to be with HIM and utterly uplifted to Paradise.

If GOD created man and a woman, I don´t know, but I believe HE made someone as a helper there, in the past. If women do men job, it is because -we men- are not doing HIS WILL and the truth is, we man play at home (while they go to the fields).

Pitiful, sad, shameful... We are giving the ENEMY a chance kick on our face.

"Each will receive according to his/her deeds"

 

[tucksma]

I agree paul was not rude here, for he was inspired by God.

 

[jag1977]

Genesis 1 God created man and woman

 

[tucksma]

Genesis 1 God created man and woman

No disagreement there!

 

[Apostol2013]

The question might arise whether or not Paul was correct when he said women should be silent in church. Jesus said we should be just. I think justice is self-evident, and it seems unjust to me to prohibit women from speaking in church.

It might seem that way but God's word is just Paul was correct and when they go changing God's commandments they are becoming the son of perdition exalting himself above the throne saying by his actions that that person is God because they can do anything (lawful) but not everything is expedient (good for them ) ..

 

[LClark]

I agree, females should be ministers just as much as males are. Galatians 3:28 reads, "There is no more Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female. For you are all one in Jesus Christ." Women are just as holy and just as unified with Christ as men are and can certainly be ministers. In fact, I grew up with a female minister in a Christian Reformed Church in Patterson, NJ.

Here is where our terminology brings confusion. Ephesians makes clear that God gives "pastors and teachers" to the church "for the equipping of the saints (all Christians) for ministry."

All Christians are called to minister. Not all are called to be pastors/teachers.

The verse quoted has nothing to do with the qualifications laid down elsewhere in Scripture for the role of pastor.

 

[LClark]

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Douglas Moo
The New Testament makes it plain that Christian women, like men, have been given
spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Women, like men, are to use these gifts to minister
to the body of Christ (1 Peter 4:10); their ministries are indispensable to the life and
growth of the church (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). There are many examples in the New
Testament of just such ministries on the part of gifted Christian women (see Chapter 5 in
this volume). To be true to the New Testament, then, the contemporary church needs to
honor those varied ministries of women and to encourage women to pursue them.
But does the New Testament place any restrictions on the ministry of women? From
the earliest days of the apostolic church, most orthodox Christians have thought so. One
important reason they have thought so is the teaching of 1 Timothy 2:8-15:...

Many people refuse to apply this passage to the church today because they question
whether it has authority over us....

We think 1 Timothy 2:8-15 imposes two restrictions on theministry of women: they are not to teach Christian doctrine to men and they are not to
exercise authority directly over men in the church. These restrictions are permanent,
authoritative for the church in all times and places and circumstances...
[By Douglas Moo, Ph.D., Professor of New Testament, Wheaton College]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

German doesn't have an equivalent of the KJV (at least they didn't when I lived there in the 80s). Does that mean that they aren't really saved? What about all the people before 1611?

It doesn't?

Well is there a German Translation that is translated from the Textus Receptus??

How about Martin Luther's German Translation?

Does that mean that they aren't really saved?

No, it does not mean that at all. The Gospel can be found intact in just about any translation out there, no matter how corrupt those modern translations are, the Gospel can still be found in them.

What about all the people before 1611?

The people before 1611 still had access to the word of God. Which means they also had access to the Gospel.

When God promised to preserve His Word, that was over a millennium before English as we know it was spoken and before King James was a twinkle in his dad's eye. KJV happens to be a pretty good interpretation for one of the hundreds of languages (not including thousands of dialects) in the world, but it certainly is not the only one.

The King James Bible is the inerrant word of God.


For those who don't speak English though, there are reliable foreign translations out there which are translated from the correct Greek and Hebrew texts.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Just in case you failed to read my post the first time (obviously!) I am going to print it again for you. I even used your inspired KJV, just for you! Because it does NOT say that only MEN can be pastors. It says that SOME, male or female are called to be shepherds.

No woman is called to be a shepherd or a pastor. Only a man is called to be a pastor (See 1 Timothy 3).

Too many people mixing up bishop, elder, pastors, and misusing the English, which does not bring out the things the Greek brings out. Sigh!

Do I really have to re-post all the stuff about 1 Tim. 2:12 1 Cor. 14 and Eph. 5 again???

Ok, Eph. 5 is easy.

English:

"[SUP]21 [/SUP]submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord." Eph. 5:21-22 ESV

There is NOT a word "SUBMIT" in verse 22 in the Greek!

There is in the Holy Bible:


Ephesians 5:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

"[SUP]21 [/SUP]ὑποτασσόμενοι ἀλλήλοις ἐν φόβῳ Χριστοῦ.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Αἱ γυναῖκες τοῖς ἰδίοις ἀνδράσιν ὡς τῷ κυρίῳ," Eph. 5:21-22 Greek.

The word "submit" is ὑποτασσόμενοι or hupotassomenoi. Notice how this word is missing in the Greek. Look it up yourself if you do not believe me!

Angela, why don't you just believe the Book?


The Bible clearly says that the wives are to submit themselves unto their own husbands, as unto the Lord. Therefore a wife is to submit to her husband if she wants to be in obedience to God's holy word.

Men, please feel free to mutually submit to your wives, as verse 21 points out. As for the rest of the passage, Paul is addressing husbands! Yes, surprising as it may seem. He is telling men to love their wives, as Christ loved the church!


More later on the other disputed verses, and why woman not only can, but should be pastors.

Women cannot and should not be pastors. It is contrary to the Authoritative word of God.

The Spirit is willing for women to be partners in the gospel, but men are just too caught up in legalism to allow them to do it.

Women can be fellow labourers in the Gospel, but they are NOT to be pastors, preachers, or bishops. And they are not to usurp the authority over the man.


Oh and by the way Angela, obeying the Bible is not legalism.

I thank God he called me and I am able to be a pastor to over 400 people in long term care, who would have no one if I wasn't there.

Angela, God did not call you to be a pastor. God cannot and will not contradict His holy word.

Women can teach the younger women (Titus 2:4). But they cannot teach or usurp the authority over the men (1 Timothy 2:12).

 

[jag1977]

No woman is called to be a shepherd or a pastor. Only a man is called to be a pastor (See 1 Timothy 3).







There is in the Holy Bible:


Ephesians 5:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.








Angela, why don't you just believe the Book?


The Bible clearly says that the wives are to submit themselves unto their own husbands, as unto the Lord. Therefore a wife is to submit to her husband if she wants to be in obedience to God's holy word.






Women cannot and should not be pastors. It is contrary to the Authoritative word of God.






Women can be fellow labourers in the Gospel, but they are NOT to be pastors, preachers, or bishops. And they are not to usurp the authority over the man.


Oh and by the way Angela, obeying the Bible is not legalism.





Angela, God did not call you to be a pastor. God cannot and will not contradict His holy word.

Women can teach the younger women (Titus 2:4). But they cannot teach or usurp the authority over the men (1 Timothy 2:12).

I'm pretty sure timothy is not God and neither is Paul. Jesus' word in the gospels is to be taken literally however timothy and paul's writings are done in the spirit after christ and must be understood by the spirit. If I hear timothy as gods word which is of a man why not hear my word first unless I find no understanding or truth? For God will draw on the ordinary to present the extraordinary. Anyone who believes they are called by God may speak anywhere they choose. It is wickedness to believe otherwise, I don't care what anyone believes the meaning of what was written. There is no gain to anything when people are oppressed....but a good teacher or whatever word you want to use to describe them is lost along with God's word. A FOOL would believe otherwise.

 

[tucksma]

I'm pretty sure timothy is not God and neither is Paul. Jesus' word in the gospels is to be taken literally however timothy and paul's writings are done in the spirit after christ and must be understood by the spirit. If I hear timothy as gods word which is of a man why not hear my word first unless I find no understanding or truth? For God will draw on the ordinary to present the extraordinary. Anyone who believes they are called by God may speak anywhere they choose. It is wickedness to believe otherwise, I don't care what anyone believes the meaning of what was written. There is no gain to anything when people are oppressed....but a good teacher or whatever word you want to use to describe them is lost along with God's word. A FOOL would believe otherwise.

A fool would ignore god's word. Paul was INSPIRED BY GOD. So it is God's word. It's not oppression, it's an idea of different roles. Anyone can say they have a calling of God to do anything, but does it mean they really do? Sometimes maybe, but not all the time. God is clear in the bible. If you feel otherwise you are ignoring God's word, unless you can provide scripture supporting women leading the church? If so then that's different, but I have seen none.

 

[Misty77]

A fool would ignore god's word. Paul was INSPIRED BY GOD. So it is God's word. It's not oppression, it's an idea of different roles. Anyone can say they have a calling of God to do anything, but does it mean they really do? Sometimes maybe, but not all the time. God is clear in the bible. If you feel otherwise you are ignoring God's word, unless you can provide scripture supporting women leading the church? If so then that's different, but I have seen none.

No one here is ignoring God's Word. We are trying to study to find ourselves to be approved workpeople who dont need to be ashamed.

 

[tucksma]

No one here is ignoring God's Word. We are trying to study to find ourselves to be approved workpeople who dont need to be ashamed.

I think you are trying to do that, but Jag said something along the lines of timothy's words as well as Paul's not being counted as much because they are only in the likeness of christ. That's what I was referring to. That is ignoring God's words because God inspired these men to write what they wrote. To say their words don't count as much cuz they are in the likeness of christ is like saying anything that Christ didn't say I can count as optional. That's what I was specifically referring to sorry if you misunderstood that and took offense, I could have been clearer on that one.

 

[jag1977]

ANY PERSON MAN OR WOMAN JEW OR PURPLE CAN BE INSPIRED BY GOD! Did you hear it that time? Show me one scripture that provides where anyone cannot have the spirit of God if he chooses to give it to them.

 

[jag1977]

I hold others on high because they are my master...the honor is theirs for I have not the spirit and no understanding or truth from God except through other men.