Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The Cause of Election by John Gill

These maxims are certainly true and indisputable: (1) That nothing in time can be the cause of what was done in eternity. To believe, to do good works, and persevere in them are acts in time, and so cannot be causes of election, which was done in eternity. And (2) That nothing out of God can be the cause of any decree or will in him. He is no passive Being, to be wrought upon by motives and inducements outside of himself. If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him, and his will must become dependent on that; which to say of God is to speak very unworthily of him. God wills things because it so pleases him. Predestination is according to the good pleasure of his will. Election is according to his foreknowledge, which is no other than his free favor and good will to men (Eph.1:5; 1 Pet. 1:2). No other reason can be given of God's will or decree to bestow grace and glory on men, for his own glory, and of his actual donation of them, but what our Lord gives: "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in thy sight" (Matt. 11:25-26).
 

Nehemiah6

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Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit given when born again. No one can manufacture it of themselves. Our faith does not bring salvation.
There are three kinds of faith revealed in Scripture: (1) saving faith, (2) faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and (3) faith as a gift of the Holy Spirit.

You have just contradicted the Word of God with your claim that "our faith does not bring salvation". So here is just one passage to refute your lie (Ephesians 1:12-15).

IS TRUSTING IN CHRIST "FAITH"? WHO DOES THE TRUSTING?
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

DOES THE "WORD OF TRUTH" (THE GOSPEL) GENERATE TRUST IN CHRIST? WHO DOES THE TRUSTING AND DOES THAT BRING SALVATION?
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation:

IS TRUSTING THE SAME AS BELIEVING AND THE SAME AS FAITH? WHO DOES THE BELIEVING?
...in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise...

WHAT DOES "YOUR FAITH" MEAN OTHER THAN "YOUR FAITH"?
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus
, and love unto all the saints,

According to this passage no one "manufactures" faith, since faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel). So we see an attack on Gospel truth every time a Calvinist opens his mouth (or posts nonsense). It is the Gospel of God accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit which generates faith in unbelieving hearts. It is one thing when unbelievers attack the true Gospel. It is quite another thing when Christians attack the true Gospel and pervert it.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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There are three kinds of faith revealed in Scripture: (1) saving faith, (2) faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and (3) faith as a gift of the Holy Spirit.

You have just contradicted the Word of God with your claim that "our faith does not bring salvation". So here is just one passage to refute your lie (Ephesians 1:12-15).

IS TRUSTING IN CHRIST "FAITH"? WHO DOES THE TRUSTING?
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

DOES THE "WORD OF TRUTH" (THE GOSPEL) GENERATE TRUST IN CHRIST? WHO DOES THE TRUSTING AND DOES THAT BRING SALVATION?
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation:

IS TRUSTING THE SAME AS BELIEVING AND THE SAME AS FAITH? WHO DOES THE BELIEVING?
...in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise...

WHAT DOES "YOUR FAITH" MEAN OTHER THAN "YOUR FAITH"?
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus
, and love unto all the saints,

According to this passage no one "manufactures" faith, since faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel). So we see an attack on Gospel truth every time a Calvinist opens his mouth (or posts nonsense). It is the Gospel of God accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit which generates faith in unbelieving hearts. It is one thing when unbelievers attack the true Gospel. It is quite another thing when Christians attack the true Gospel and pervert it.
Roger is correct, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 ! Spiritual hearing comes by the Spirit, so both Spiritual Hearing and Faith are the fruit of the Spirit.
 

brightfame52

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nehemiah6

You have just contradicted the Word of God with your claim that "our faith does not bring salvation".
So here is just one passage to refute your lie (Ephesians 1:12-15).
No you are incorrect, Faith accompanies Salvation, its not the cause of Salvation but the evidence of Salvation, the fruit and effect of Salvation, and I dont know why you referenced Eph 1:12-15 because it doesnt say or support your claims.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Gill is one of my favorite writers, and part of the reason I became a Baptist. I wonder if you have read Hoeksema on election and grace?
Yeah Gill is my favorite commentator, have you read him on eternal justification ? And yes I have read Herman before on election, from what i recall he seems to be pretty sound on that subject.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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You have just contradicted the Word of God with your claim that "our faith does not bring salvation". So here is just one passage to refute your lie (Ephesians 1:12-15).
I did not say that faith doesn't bring salvation, I said that only Christ's faith(fulness) and obedience to the Father brought salvation - our faith doesn't and can't. If it did, we would then become our own Saviour.

If you're referring to the "hearing", it comes only with a renewing of minds and hearts upon becoming born again - God alone writes them. Until and unless He does, it is impossible for someone to truly believe. We are told that before becoming born-again, we are in the "natural man" group(below) and unable to comprehend things spiritual. The Holy Spirit only indwells upon one's spiritual rebirth - those not reborn do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot of themselves, truly comprehend or believe.

I think this should be applicable to other references of your post.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[2Co 4:4 KJV]
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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I did not say that faith doesn't bring salvation, I said that only Christ's faith(fulness) and obedience to the
Father brought salvation - our faith doesn't and can't. If it did, we would then become our own Saviour.

Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
:)
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The Elect’s Salvation

Jesus Christ by His death did purchase salvation for the elect that God gave unto Him before the foundation of the world. The free gift of eternal life is given to them and none else. Only these have interest in Him, and fellowship with Him. He makes intercession for these to His Father in their behalf, and to them alone does God by His Spirit apply this redemption Eph.1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

John 6:37-40

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

In Vs 37 the giving denotes election, and it occurred before the coming ! 5
 

rogerg

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Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
:)
Yes, one's faith in Christ as Saviour is a gift given to those whom the Father has chosen, but it was Christ's faith(fulness) and obedience that brought salvation, ours does not, and salvation, I believe, is what we were discussing.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Yes, one's faith in Christ as Saviour is a gift given to those whom the Father has chosen, but it was Christ's faith(fulness) and obedience that brought salvation, ours does not, and salvation, I believe, is what we were discussing.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Hebrews 11:6
:)
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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These maxims are certainly true and indisputable: (1) That nothing in time can be the cause of what was done in eternity.
Subtract out time and eternity from the equation. That is our domain. God's perspective is always eternal. Knowing the end from the beginning.

Thus the seeming paradoxes and dilemmas. The fault lies when postulating a diminishing God's love, longsuffering, kindness and grace toward fallen men. Evidently hard-core ******ists etc fall prey to this folly.

It's a big mistake to mischaracterize the Gracious One IMO.

Luk 19:21
For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
 

rogerg

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Yes, faith/belief is a gift given by God through spiritual rebirth, and only those given that gift will truly seek after God. Any seeking that results in a conclusion that man's efforts played a part in their salvation, were not able to truly seek after God.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Yes, faith/belief is a gift given by God through spiritual rebirth, and only those given that gift will truly seek after God. Any
seeking that results in a conclusion that man's efforts played a part in their salvation, were not able to truly seek after God.

Jeremiah 29:13-14a
:)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Subtract out time and eternity from the equation. That is our domain. God's perspective is always eternal. Knowing the end from the beginning.

Thus the seeming paradoxes and dilemmas. The fault lies when postulating a diminishing God's love, longsuffering, kindness and grace toward fallen men. Evidently hard-core ******ists etc fall prey to this folly.

It's a big mistake to mischaracterize the Gracious One IMO.

Luk 19:21
For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
EDIT ^^
Subtract out time from the equation. That is our domain. God's perspective is always eternal. Knowing the end from the beginning.
 

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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EDIT ^^
Subtract out time from the equation. That is our domain. God's perspective is always eternal. Knowing the end from the beginning.
Amen. This is one of the places where Calvinists go off the rails. They have no conception of God's foreknowledge. He foreknows who will accept Him and He foreknows who will reject Him. A prime example of this is Judas.
 

rogerg

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Jeremiah 29:13-14a
:)
Yes, faith/belief is a gift given by God through spiritual rebirth, and only those given that gift will truly seek after God. Any
seeking that results in a conclusion that man's efforts played a part in their salvation, were not able to truly seek after God.
To be able to truly seek is a result of salvation - it is in coming to know Christ through the Scriptures, but that is not the cause of salvation (if that's what you're thinking). A deceitful heart, which we are all are born with, can neither seek nor find, it must first be changed.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
 

rogerg

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Amen. This is one of the places where Calvinists go off the rails. They have no conception of God's foreknowledge. He foreknows who will accept Him and He foreknows who will reject Him. A prime example of this is Judas.
As a wise person on a different thread once said, that would then be a knowledge of what, not whom, but the foreknowledge is of whom, not what.

[Rom 8:29 KJV] 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.