Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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If "Election" is based on NOTHING, then it's arbitrary.
If it is not based upon God, and is based upon us, then it can only be of law and works because that is all that remains- in which case we'd better immediately restart animal sacrifices.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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No. If it was God's will for everyone to become saved, they would become saved, but they don't become saved so that was never His will.
A statement directly contrary to Scripture. And in defiance of vast tracts of Biblical types, nations, peoples and individuals.
Cain, Pharoah, Judas, Esau, the Canaanites, Sodom, Naaman, Nineveh, even Balaam AND THE NATION ISRAEL.....ALL were mercifully given "time to repent". Most chose not to and suffered judgement according to God's wisdom.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have (G2309) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G2309 - thelō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to will, have in mind, intend
    1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
    2. to desire, to wish
    3. to love
      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
    4. to take delight in, have pleasure
Back yourself into a corner at your peril.
We are NOT called upon to judge let alone render a verdict upon these cosmic questions.

Whether it be salvation and/or judgement is God's business alone. It is dangerous territory to tread upon bro.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,968
7,355
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A statement directly contrary to Scripture. And in defiance of vast tracts of Biblical types, nations, peoples and individuals.
Cain, Pharoah, Judas, Esau, the Canaanites, Sodom, Naaman, Nineveh, even Balaam AND THE NATION ISRAEL.....ALL were mercifully given "time to repent". Most chose not to and suffered judgement according to God's wisdom.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have (G2309) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G2309 - thelō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to will, have in mind, intend
    1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
    2. to desire, to wish
    3. to love
      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
    4. to take delight in, have pleasure
Back yourself into a corner at your peril.
We are NOT called upon to judge let alone render a verdict upon these cosmic questions.

Whether it be salvation and/or judgement is God's business alone. It is dangerous territory to tread upon bro.
That and similar verses destroy so-called "double predestination" IMO.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,409
507
113
A statement directly contrary to Scripture. And in defiance of vast tracts of Biblical types, nations, peoples and individuals.
Cain, Pharoah, Judas, Esau, the Canaanites, Sodom, Nineveh, even Balaam AND THE NATION ISRAEL.....ALL were mercifully given "time to repent". Most chose not to and suffered judgement according to God's wisdom.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have (G2309) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G2309 - thelō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to will, have in mind, intend
    1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
    2. to desire, to wish
    3. to love
      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
    4. to take delight in, have pleasure
Back yourself into a corner at your peril.
We are NOT called upon to judge let alone render a verdict upon these cosmic questions.

Whether it be salvation and/or judgement is God's business alone. It is dangerous territory to tread upon bro.
No. Edification is exactly what Christians have been called by God to do.

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
God's gracious gift of salvation is precious indeed, and it is obtained through faith. It is by The Blood of Jesus, not our own works. Our part is to simply call upon the name of the Lord...
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,409
507
113
A statement directly contrary to Scripture. And in defiance of vast tracts of Biblical types, nations, peoples and individuals.
Cain, Pharoah, Judas, Esau, the Canaanites, Sodom, Naaman, Nineveh, even Balaam AND THE NATION ISRAEL.....ALL were mercifully given "time to repent". Most chose not to and suffered judgement according to God's wisdom.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have (G2309) all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G2309 - thelō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv) (blueletterbible.org)

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to will, have in mind, intend
    1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
    2. to desire, to wish
    3. to love
      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
    4. to take delight in, have pleasure
Back yourself into a corner at your peril.
We are NOT called upon to judge let alone render a verdict upon these cosmic questions.

Whether it be salvation and/or judgement is God's business alone. It is dangerous territory to tread upon bro.
You need to determine who the "all men" are. They obviously can't be other than those the Father gave to Christ
because it is on that basis alone that one becomes saved.

[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,409
507
113
God's gracious gift of salvation is precious indeed, and it is obtained through faith. It is by The Blood of Jesus, not our own works. Our part is to simply call upon the name of the Lord...
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Salvation was obtained by the faith of Christ, not our faith. Our faith is a gift that comes as a result of being born-again which is a result of comes Christ's faith(fulness).

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,968
7,355
113
Our part is to simply call upon the name of the Lord...
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
100% bro. How this exactly works in time and eternity nobody knows for sure.
So let everyone quit pretending that we do.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
935
113
God's gracious gift of salvation is precious indeed, and it is obtained through faith. It is by The Blood of Jesus, not our own works. Our part is to simply call upon the name of the Lord...
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
God ;whole plan of Salvation depends on us ? Seems kinda backwards .I am a sinner why would my salvation depend on a sinner?
I well remember the days when i agreed with the Oyster :)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,055
525
113
No, He did not.

He did not. God loves all and desires that all would come to Him. You preach a false Gospel and should be ejected.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
God foreknows eveything because everything has been predetermined by His Will. God predetermined whose going to repent and when, He gives them repentance in the first place. 2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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"I am a sinner why would my salvation depend on a sinner?"

Wow! Perfectly stated!
Acts 2:21
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Wow, Biblically stated.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
God predetermined whose going to repent
Acts 17:30 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:”

God may have winked at ignorance, but He will not wink at arrogance.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Acts 2:21
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Wow, Biblically stated.
That will be the elect, them whom God shall call. Thats a scripture from Joel 2:28-32

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. Thats the remnant according to the election of grace.

If you read on in Acts 2:21 ff Vs 39

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Acts 17:30 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:”

God may have winked at ignorance, but He will not wink at arrogance.
Thats the election of Grace commanded to repent and they will repent.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,055
525
113
Acts 17:30 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:”

God may have winked at ignorance, but He will not wink at arrogance.
Right God predetermines who will obey that command to repent.