Doctrine of Unconditional Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
What does it say to you, that someone doesn't know Christ's death insured the Salvation covenant?
Please read rogerg's posts better than this. That's not what he was claiming.

He claims that Christ's death SAVES. Not "insures the Salvaiton covenant".

The basic foundation of our faith.
But not the Bible's.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
Please read rogerg's posts better than this. That's not what he was claiming.

He claims that Christ's death SAVES. Not "insures the Salvaiton covenant".


But not the Bible's.
You know not of what you speak.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Prove it. Those who are able to discern the context know that Jesus was using the Jews' own words in His answer.

They asked, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” in v.28. Got it? They thought that Go required works for eternal life.

Then, Jesus answered: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Both Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 prove that salvation is NOT by our works, but by trusting/believing in Christ.

If you don't comprehend that, there is not much use in further discussion. It's called "being at loggerheads".
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
Those who would think saying "nice try" is somehow disrespecting Christians have a very thin skin and are way too hypersensitive.

Grow a thicker skin, please.


I actually dare you to find ANY insult that I've leveled at anyone. Give post # so we all can see your 'evidence'.


Nice try. So what? What is accomplished by posting thoughts that are unbiblical?


I have already. I've been free of leveling any insults at those who have such a poor comprehension of Scripture.
And the retort, "grow a thicker skin", is the next step for those prone to the smug dismissive, "nice try". Blaming their target for recognizing the slings and arrows that are cast their way.

How about you grow up and respect people?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
Prove it. Those who are able to discern the context know that Jesus was using the Jews' own words in His answer.

They asked, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” in v.28. Got it? They thought that Go required works for eternal life.

Then, Jesus answered: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Both Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 prove that salvation is NOT by our works, but by trusting/believing in Christ.

If you don't comprehend that, there is not much use in further discussion. It's called "being at loggerheads".
The Bible proved it. The scripture was posted, the sustaining scriptures and linked article assist understanding.
Give it a read. It can only help you.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Please define "save" as the Bible defines it, so we're all saying the same thing
Actually, the word is defined in lexicons, which the Bible uses to convey what God wants mankind to know.

"save" means to deliver or rescue from danger/etc in its basic meaning.

The concept of salvation has 3 tenses that need to be understood, or many parts of the Bible will not be properly understood.

Past tense salvation: saved from the penalty of sin. This is our justification.

Present tense salvation: saved from the power of sin. This is our sanctification. Refers to spiritual growth.

Future tense salvation: saved from the presence of sin. This is our glorification.

What do you think I missed?
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
Says the confused one. lol
Yes, I see that. Though you shouldn't laugh at your own lack of understanding. You are Controversial. And wrong thinking to remain unaware of the message in scripture while prioritizing dismissives and insults that do nothing to obscure those obvious facts.

You're wrong.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
And the retort, "grow a thicker skin", is the next step for those prone to the smug dismissive, "nice try". Blaming their target for recognizing the slings and arrows that are cast their way.

How about you grow up and respect people?
How about you grow up and lose some of that hypersensitivity?

When are you going to prove my posts are wrong? You've been pretty busy making all these charges, none of which you can prove because you don't have any evidence.

Just provide Scripture that you think refutes any of my posts.

Do you not realize that I don't want to be wrong any more than you do? If I am wrong, I want to know so I can repent (change my mind) and believe what is truth.

If you have the same attitude, there should be no tension between us. That's if we both want truth.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,070
426
83
Gen 15:6 - Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
No, if what you say is true it would say "righteousness was credited to him for faith", not "faith was credited to him for righteousness".
Besides, how could an imperfect faith, from an imperfect person, result in perfect righteousness? The faith in view must be
a perfect given by Christ alone.

[Gal 3:6 KJV] 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
You are Controversial.
Sure. And Jesus was quite controversial. What is your point? Truth is ALWAYS controversial.

Is your theology determined by democracy?

And wrong thinking to remain unaware of the message in scripture while prioritizing dismissives and insults that do nothing to obscure those obvious facts.
Once again I CHALLENGE you to find any insult that I've leveled against you or anyone. Either prove your claims or quit making them.

You're wrong.
Simple. Prove it then.
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,119
113
U.S.A.
And the retort, "grow a thicker skin", is the next step for those prone to the smug dismissive, "nice try". Blaming their target for recognizing the slings and arrows that are cast their way.

How about you grow up and respect people?




You are the one acting childish toward others that refute your beliefs.
Throwing tantrums and telling people to grow up......nice try.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
Sure. And Jesus was quite controversial. What is your point? Truth is ALWAYS controversial.

Is your theology determined by democracy?


Once again I CHALLENGE you to find any insult that I've leveled against you or anyone. Either prove your claims or quit making them.


Simple. Prove it then.
You're no Jesus. You being controversial in no wise compares to him.

And no. You prove it yourself. All of it. Which is why it is there to be witnessed.
Sad.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,070
426
83
save" means to deliver or rescue from danger/etc in its basic meaning.
So, according to your definition and relative to Tit 3:7, we have been justified by His grace and heirs according to the hope
of eternal life. Sounds like being saved to me. Notice, the "justified by His grace", and not "justified by our faith">

[Tit 3:7 KJV]
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[Rom 3:24 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[1Co 6:11 KJV] 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Gen 15:6 - Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
No, if what you say is true it would say "righteousness was credited to him for faith", not "faith was credited to him for righteousness".
Do you realize what you are saying? I quoted the verse and you try to be some kind of expert about what I believe to tell me that if I'm right the verse would be different? Are you kidding??

I believe the verse AS IT STANDS. So don't tell me how it would read if I am right. I believe what it says. Don't you?

Besides, how could an imperfect faith, from an imperfect person, result in perfect righteousness? The faith in view must be
a perfect given by Christ alone.
Who says one's trust in Christ is imperfect? You got a verse for that comment? No, you don't. All you have are opinions.

The Bible teaches quite clearly that salvation is based on man trusting in what Jesus did for him and gives eternal life to those who do trust Him.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I've highlighted the main point of the verse. Do you believe the red words? It seems to me that you don't believe them.

What say you?

[Gal 3:6 KJV] 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
So, where is this "imperfect faith" that you speak of? I don't see it.

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Other translations use "granted" which conveys the meaning better.

iow, God permits man to believe.

What the verse does NOT SAY is that God causes people to believe.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
You are the one acting childish toward others that refute your beliefs.
Please point out where I've been "refuted" if you can. I would appreciate it.

Throwing tantrums and telling people to grow up......nice try.
Well, there you go again. Highly emotional and throwing charges that you cannot prove. Nice try is right.

This seems to be about all you have in your "armament". You give little or no Scripture to back up or support your claims. Most of your comments are just hypersensitive criticisms of others (me).

It is your tactics that are childish. But childish people don't recognize their own issues.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,070
426
83
I believe the verse AS IT STANDS. So don't tell me how it would read if I am right. I believe what it says. Don't you?
Someone needs to tell you, especially when what you're saying is illogical and your interpretation cannot be correct. Otherwise, someone may just believe you.
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,119
113
U.S.A.
It is sad 😭 that people are taught the wrong instructions of the bible but sadder still that they don't SEARCH IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES!
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,070
426
83
Who says one's trust in Christ is imperfect? You got a verse for that comment? No, you don't. All you have are opinions.
Because we're not perfect so whatever we produce will be imperfect, including any supposed faith that we might perceive
as from ourselves