Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[fredoheaven]

[Gal 3:23 KJV] 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

"faith came"; faith was given to them; it came

Faith is given by the Holy Spirit to the Elect. It is by the presence/exhibiting/recognizing of that faith are we informed we are of the Children of God, but not the reverse. I'm not going to go through your entire reply now

The conclusion of the matter as Paul says of this faith is that it is given to them that believe. The problem is that you try to insert your “elect” when it is not found there.

Well, the foolish Galatians having received the Holy Spirit not by law but by hearing of faith. Here the law is being contrasted to faith. The reference is simply resolved through the dispensation of the grace of God. What Paul is saying is that we are no longer under the dispensation of the law but rather under the dispensation of Grace by faith. The faith came which the law cannot justify. So, when Paul speaks of “Faith came” it simply means we are no longer under the law.

"faith came"; faith was given to them; it came… I'm not going to go through your entire reply now"

So, this is your logic, because faith came, faith was given to them and it came. The question is when? I’ll answer them point by point.

1. Faith came. The dispensation of Grace by Faith came after the Law.

2. faith was given to them. The dispensation of Grace of the God by faith is given to them that believe.

3. it came. This dispensation came after the law

Well, I am not expecting any answer after all you keep repeating, sounds vain jangling.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

From Christ. Christ, though the Holy Spirit. This must be the 10th (at least) time I've posted this to you. Is there something about it
that you can't comprehend?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

WRONG

While yes they Got it from God

You missed the whole picture

Romans 10:
4 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God gives you faith through his word. His promises. The words of his people. And his creation (rom 1)

Its not Magic, It is God working in and through people through all these things and the conviction of God that brings a person to faith. Or leads them to deny the truth in unbelief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All I've been doing is showing you. For some reason you are unable to grasp it.

You have not shown me anything. Just because you think you have does not mean you did

Your lack of humility is deep my freind You think you have the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

But if you would listen to people try to show you. You don't

Maybe I shouldn't be, but I get
tired reposting the same answers over and over again. So, when you see a red 'x' ,just refer back to a prior post of mine
for an answer

And I get sick of posting the same thing, over and over, and you not getting it. (it goes both ways my friend) So when you give me a red x without a proper explanation. I will just assume you have no answer.

 

[rogerg]

1. Faith came. The dispensation of Grace by Faith came after the Law.

Let's simplify this. It all goes back to this one question: yes, or no, (with no if ands or buts) do you believe that Jesus Christ the one and only Savior?

 

[rogerg]

And I get sick of posting the same thing, over and over, and you not getting it. (it goes both ways my friend) So when you give me a red x without a proper explanation. I will just assume you have no answer.

Except for the above about the Savior, I haven't asked you anything. I am not interested to know your beliefs because i think them entirely wrong

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Except for the above about the Savior, I haven't asked you anything. I am not interested to know your beliefs because i think them entirely wrong

And I think your are entirely wrong But I am open to be challenged, Because of we think we know it all. We are doomed.

And you had no answer my friend That did not answer my question that way you think it did.

 

[rogerg]

[

And I think your are entirely wrong But I am open to be challenged, Because of we think we know it all. We are doomed.

So, it all goes back to this one question: yes, or no, (with no if ands or buts included) do you believe that Jesus Christ the one and only Savior?

 

[fredoheaven]

Let's simplify this. It all goes back to this one question: yes, or no, (with no if ands or buts) do you believe that Jesus Christ the one and only Savior?

Umm, I think you better answer that and your follow-up questions so we can know yours first since you wanted to play your game. Thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, it all goes back to this one question: yes, or no, (with no if ands or buts included) do you believe that Jesus Christ the one and only Savior?

I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. Now did I?

 

[Grandpa]

Rom 10:10 says that man believes from the heart. No verse says that belief comes from God, as you opine.

Fruit of the Spirit. ( Faith )

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.


Mark 9:23-24
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.


All of our Blessings come from God. All things required for Salvation come from God or they don't exist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Umm, I think you better answer that and your follow-up questions so we can know yours first since you wanted to play your game. Thanks

He seems to think that since God through his people his word and his Holy Spirit which led me to be as the tax collector and call out on Jesus and recieve him,

That I am my own God??

 

[rogerg]

I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. Now did I?

You didn't say, period. So go-ahead, say it explicitly, yes or no. Otherwise, I'll assume a no

 

[rogerg]

Umm, I think you better answer that and your follow-up questions so we can know yours first since you wanted to play your game. Thanks

Dodging ? Why are you afraid to answer? Yes or no, is Christ the Savior?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't say, period. So go-ahead, say it explicitly, yes or no. Otherwise, I'll assume a no

I have said it so many times I lost count
The cross is what saved me, Who died on the cross? Yep you got it. Jesus Who fillfiuled the law? Yep yu Got it Jesus. Who was the lamb of God who knew no sin made sin for me? You Got it jesus

There is no name under heaven by which we must be saved. But JESUS

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dodging ? Why are you afraid to answer? Yes or no, is Christ the Savior?

No one is dodging you my friend

 

[FreeGrace2]

Fruit of the Spirit. ( Faith )

The list is what the Spirit performs through BELIEVERS. It isn't about faith in a salvation sense.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Nothing mysterious here. God has provided EVERYTHING needed for anyone to believe in His Son.

 

[Grandpa]

The list is what the Spirit performs through BELIEVERS. It isn't about faith in a salvation sense.

It absolutely is about faith in a salvation sense.

Ezekiel 36:23-27
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Nothing mysterious here. God has provided EVERYTHING needed for anyone to believe in His Son.

God has provided everything needed for His People to believe in His Son.

John 10:26-28
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The list is what the Spirit performs through BELIEVERS. It isn't about faith in a salvation sense.

It absolutely is about faith in a salvation sense.

I think you are rather confused. In v.16 Paul commands his audience of SAVED people to "walk by means of the Spirit", followed by the alternative, which is walking by means of the flesh. Then Paul gives a list of what the flesh does, and THEN, he lists the fruit of the Spirit.

v.17 - For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

This verse is key to understanding Paul. Every believer faces this conflict, which is between the indwelling Holy Spirit and the believer's own sinful flesh. They are in conflict.

So, the list of the fruit of the Spirit CANNOT be about salvation, since the list is for those who ARE SAVED ALREADY.

Ezekiel 36:23-27
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Without any explanation, I have no idea why you included this passage in our discussion. I see no relevance.

God has provided everything needed for His People to believe in His Son.

Yes He certainly has.

First, God has revealed His very existence and divine power and attributes through creation, so that everyone can plainly see them, and therefore have NO excuse for not believing that He exists as Creator and being thankful to Him in Rom 1:19-21.

Second, God created mankind with a conscience to recognize right from wrong in Rom 2:14,15.

John 10:26-28
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What is your point here?

The point of v.28 is clear; those given eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So, WHEN does one become a recipient of eternal life? Jesus tells us in John 5:24 when He said "those who believe POSSESS eternal life". Therefore, the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life and from that moment on, shall never perish.

iow, ALL recipients of eternal life will NEVER face condemnation. EVER.

 

[rogerg]

There is no name under heaven by which we must be saved. But JESUS

So, if you believe Christ is the Savior, how is it you don't believe that He is the one who saves? And believing Christ the Savior, how then is it you think it would have to be added to or completed by us? Wouldn't that in effect say Christ's sacrifice was insufficient?

 

[fredoheaven]

So, if you believe Christ is the Savior, how is it you don't believe that He is the one who saves? And believing Christ the Savior, how then is it you think it would have to be added to or completed by us? Wouldn't that in effect say Christ's sacrifice was insufficient?

Since the question is also directed at me. I have these few comments:

Fallacy 1: Assumption we don’t believe Christ could not save us when we believe.

Christ says “believe on me”, the scripture says "He that believeth on me” If Christ says we are to believe are you going to say Christ is not going to save us? Yes, he will, that came from the mouth of our Saviour. It is God's will to believe.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Fallacy 2: Assumption we are adding or completing Christ saving power

We are saved by grace through Christ. Christ has already completed the work at Calvary. Believing is not in any way completing God’s work or Christ's work. To be saved means to believe in the complete works of Christ. That is why there is “whosoever” or “whoever”, or “if any one” that does believe will be saved. Romans 1:16 is to “anyone that believeth”

Fallacy 3: assumption over the insufficiency of Christ sacrifice

It is always by the agency/ instrumentality of faith in obtaining salvation. “through”. We don’t have to add what Christ did. Believing is not adding to Christ's Work. Christ already said, “It is finished”. The question is do you believe that Christ already finished salvation at the cross of Calvary? If not why? Do you believe Christ alone can save you? If not why? Do you believe that if you are not going to believe in Christ you will save?