Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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Sodom and Gemorrah suffered the vengeance of "eternal fire" but is it still burning? Nope. It was eternal in it's result, not it's process.
The punishment IS eternal, but what is the punishment, the wages, of sin? Eternal torment? No, it's DEATH.
Jesus was referring to the Valley of Gehenna where they burned their trash. No one was trying to quench the fire and the maggots kept on feasting...BUT IF YOU STOPPED THROWING DEAD ANIMALS AND TRASH INTO THE FIRE GUESS WHAT??? It would burn itself out without being quenched. Same thing will happen with the Lake of Fire - it'll burn out.
Why doesn't the "immortal soul/eternal torment" crowd realize that if the wicked suffered eternal torment, there would always be suffering and sorrow and crying and pain, "former things" which God plainly says will "pass away". They'll be "ashes under the soles of our feet", not eternal fuel for practitioners of Exclusivity Religion to roast their marshmallows.
The punishment IS eternal, but what is the punishment, the wages, of sin? Eternal torment? No, it's DEATH.
Jesus was referring to the Valley of Gehenna where they burned their trash. No one was trying to quench the fire and the maggots kept on feasting...BUT IF YOU STOPPED THROWING DEAD ANIMALS AND TRASH INTO THE FIRE GUESS WHAT??? It would burn itself out without being quenched. Same thing will happen with the Lake of Fire - it'll burn out.
Why doesn't the "immortal soul/eternal torment" crowd realize that if the wicked suffered eternal torment, there would always be suffering and sorrow and crying and pain, "former things" which God plainly says will "pass away". They'll be "ashes under the soles of our feet", not eternal fuel for practitioners of Exclusivity Religion to roast their marshmallows.
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I'm really not interested in the opinions of those who believe there will be NO CONSEQUENCES whatsoever for unbelievers.
And calling "death" a consequence is meaningless in your theories. At physical death, there is sleep. Not experiencing anything.
At the "second death" there will be annihilation. Again, ceasing to exist means not experiencing anything.
Your theories remove the need for a Savior. Think about it.
I'm real sure all atheists will love your ideas. They believe people cease to exist at physical death. iow, they won't experience anything again. So bad behavior has NO CONSEQUENCES.
And calling "death" a consequence is meaningless in your theories. At physical death, there is sleep. Not experiencing anything.
At the "second death" there will be annihilation. Again, ceasing to exist means not experiencing anything.
Your theories remove the need for a Savior. Think about it.
I'm real sure all atheists will love your ideas. They believe people cease to exist at physical death. iow, they won't experience anything again. So bad behavior has NO CONSEQUENCES.
#1 - Solomon admitted he did not know what lied beyond the grave
#2. - Someone wiser then Solomon has spoken to us and we must adhere to the words of JESUS the Annointed Messiah = IMMANUEL = GOD with us = the LORD.
#3. - i do not argue against Scripture and you will greatly benefit from adhering to Scripture as opposed to arguing against.
#2. - Someone wiser then Solomon has spoken to us and we must adhere to the words of JESUS the Annointed Messiah = IMMANUEL = GOD with us = the LORD.
#3. - i do not argue against Scripture and you will greatly benefit from adhering to Scripture as opposed to arguing against.
You who have mocked the word's of Christ, which i point out to you for your benefit.
You need to open your heart to embrace correction so that you can be BLESSED by it.
i have no dislike towards you at all, but i do not tolerate religion that seeks to change God's words and Truth.
If, you embrace the word's of God they will Sanctify you and fill your spirit with Light.
You need to open your heart to embrace correction so that you can be BLESSED by it.
i have no dislike towards you at all, but i do not tolerate religion that seeks to change God's words and Truth.
If, you embrace the word's of God they will Sanctify you and fill your spirit with Light.
I don't think God is a sadist, but He is just. He says we'll suffer according to our sins, which is further evidence for why there is no eternal torment, for if everyone burned forever, everyone would essentially be getting the same punishment, and what's more, why should Cain who only killed Abel burn 6,000 years LONGER than Hitler who killed millions?
I'd like to think Satan, who will suffer long after the rest of the wicked have "burned up" and "passed away" out of existence, will still be there a good while before he too passes out of existence. "
The devil is not going to exist anymore.
I'd like to think Satan, who will suffer long after the rest of the wicked have "burned up" and "passed away" out of existence, will still be there a good while before he too passes out of existence. "
"Therefore, will I bring a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee...I will bring thee to ashes...AND NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE". Ezekiel 28
The devil is not going to exist anymore.
Probably this has been explained elsewhere, but it is a host of angels not believers who are coming on the clouds--also the clouds translates to 'princes'' a name also used for angels-note that when thousands upon thousands of birds are flying together they are called a cloud of birds. (see video below)
"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. "--Revelations 1:7
Holy Ones and Saints means the same thing. The same way sheol, hades, and hell mean the grave.
Proof text below that Christ is coming with ANGELS, not believers. Understand that it doesn't make sense to say Christ comes with believers since the whole point of His coming is to GATHER THEM! God is bringing with Christ the believers--another way to say it is Christ is bringing with Him the believers from earth to heaven. They are NOT coming down with him from heaven.
" For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him (Christ). "--1st Thessalonians 4:14
For further clarity. "He is bringing his wife to the event", "He is bringing his child to the park.", "He is bringing his friend along with him to the dinner."
Furthermore, there is so much false doctrine that must be believed if you take that ONE verse in that way--it's like Russian nesting eggs.
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones "--Jude 1:14
"For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done "--Matthew 15:27
Again, it is in the isolation of verses that all false doctrine originates--we need to see the 'big picture' of scripture and test scripture against scripture.
Here is a small glimpse of what it will look like when Christ returns with His multitude of witnesses (again angels not believers)
"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. "--Revelations 1:7
Holy Ones and Saints means the same thing. The same way sheol, hades, and hell mean the grave.
Proof text below that Christ is coming with ANGELS, not believers. Understand that it doesn't make sense to say Christ comes with believers since the whole point of His coming is to GATHER THEM! God is bringing with Christ the believers--another way to say it is Christ is bringing with Him the believers from earth to heaven. They are NOT coming down with him from heaven.
" For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him (Christ). "--1st Thessalonians 4:14
For further clarity. "He is bringing his wife to the event", "He is bringing his child to the park.", "He is bringing his friend along with him to the dinner."
Furthermore, there is so much false doctrine that must be believed if you take that ONE verse in that way--it's like Russian nesting eggs.
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones "--Jude 1:14
"For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done "--Matthew 15:27
Again, it is in the isolation of verses that all false doctrine originates--we need to see the 'big picture' of scripture and test scripture against scripture.
Here is a small glimpse of what it will look like when Christ returns with His multitude of witnesses (again angels not believers)
Bible says they are resurrected, stand judgment, found guilty, sentenced, they admit their guilty and are worthy of punishment by bowing down and confessing Jesus was right all along, then "fire came down from God out of heaven and destroyed them all" = that's Hellfire which will flood the Earth in a seething Lake, burning up everything and cleansing the Earth, leaving no trace of the rebellion.
Then, Jesus will remake the thing over and we'll all get to watch!!!
Then, Jesus will remake the thing over and we'll all get to watch!!!
Your ridiculous theories remove any necessity to trust in Jesus. And they lead directly to NO CONSEQUENCES for living like hell.
At death, their soul sleeps. They experience nothing in sleep. At the second death, they cease to exist. They experience nothing because they don't exist.
What is completely twisted and ANTI-biblical notion.
At death, their soul sleeps. They experience nothing in sleep. At the second death, they cease to exist. They experience nothing because they don't exist.
What is completely twisted and ANTI-biblical notion.
See? Still MAKING UP STUFF. I recommend that you start reading your Bible. There is nothing about a witch "FORCING" anyone.
She freaked when Samuel appeared because she wasn't expecting anyone from the dead to appear. That has never happened before and she wasn't expecting it.
The problem isn't "silly Solomon". It's the silly people who completely misread him and a lot of others.
And you have zero evidence from Scripture for your made up storty.
She freaked when Samuel appeared because she wasn't expecting anyone from the dead to appear. That has never happened before and she wasn't expecting it.
The problem isn't "silly Solomon". It's the silly people who completely misread him and a lot of others.
And you have zero evidence from Scripture for your made up storty.
There's no horrible conclusion to annihilation. No trace of the wicked will mar the peace of eternity. Your version has the constant torturous agonies of suffering shrieking, blaspheming wicked cursing God for all eternity.
Yes, that's just the kind of eternity God says will be by telling us there'll be "no more death, nor sorrow, no crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away", right?
Yes, that's just the kind of eternity God says will be by telling us there'll be "no more death, nor sorrow, no crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away", right?
This ridiculous statement proves how much you either don't know Scripture or just can't understand it.
Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
A very clear refutation of your view.
Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
A very clear refutation of your view.
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Dearest 1ofthem--find the Annihilationist forum--the numerous literal verses that say "the wages for sin is DEATH", "will not PERISH", "the wicked will be DESTROYED vastly outnumber the few figurative verses that have been twisted to fit the pagan narrative of a place of eternal torment, which the Protestants got from the Roman Catholic Church--who got it from the pagans. If a fire never goes out and a worm doesn't die then the thing it is consuming will be completely and utterly obliterated. Note too, this verse says the worm and fire are feeding on CORPSES--this verse is clearly using figurative language. Also, and blasphemously, that would mean that Christ's death was not the penalty for sin and that He himself is or will be in eternal conscious torment, if that is the punishment for sin and not as Romans 6:23 says plainly is DEATH.
'Eternal Conscious Torment' running from a swarm of Annihilation bible verses.
'Eternal Conscious Torment' running from a swarm of Annihilation bible verses.
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