Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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If God offers and waits for man to respond, then it is not by grace. It is by the works of man. Sorry I butted in, Slayer.
So do you believe that God compels men to be saved? What if God tires from waiting? God does not strive with a man forever.

Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
What is interesting is that not one of the Scriptures you give clearly says that God has not offered salvation to every man. Nor do any of the Scriptures say that God does not want to save all of mankind. Nor do any of the verses you give say that God does not love all mankind or that he does not wish to save everyone.

If I am wrong, please kindly show me where any of these Scriptures say this?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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So you are saying man saves himself by choosing to believe the Gospel, so you are an Armininan after all. It's OK to come out of the closet, there's are plenty of your kind around.
lol! Roger (notptome) is now an Arminianist! :LOL: :p o_O :unsure:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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What is interesting is that not one of the Scriptures you give clearly says that God has not offered salvation to every man. Nor do any of the Scriptures say that God does not want to save all of mankind. Nor do any of the verses you give say that God does not love all mankind or that he does not wish to save everyone.

If I am wrong, please kindly show me where any of these Scriptures say this?
I keep butting in on Slayer's conversation, but hard to resist. Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten (divinely punish), be zealous therefore and repent. Heb 12:6-7-8, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all (of my elect) are partakers, then ye are bastards, and not sons. In Ps 73:5, For they (talking about the wicked) are not PLAGUED (Greek translation= divinely punished) like other men. Rom 9:11-12-13, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. it was said unto her the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. John 6:37-38-39, All that the Father giveth me ( Eph 1:4, those that he chose before the foundation of the world) shall come to me, and him that cometh to me, I will in no way cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will, that OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day. So, Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that his Father gave him. And Jesus said that he would not lose any of them.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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How is that a work??
If it is a requirement for man to do something it is a work. Accept, repent, believe, being baptized, confess, if this action is required before God can eternally save you, it is a work, and also, it is the pride of man in not denying himself. Luke 9:23, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,851
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If it is a requirement for man to do something it is a work. Accept, repent, believe, being baptized, confess, if this action is required before God can eternally save you, it is a work, and also, it is the pride of man in not denying himself. Luke 9:23, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
What you have posted is completely absurd.

You have confused denying self with denying Christ.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You are saying that Paul is teaching salvation by works? Paul is saying by Holy Spirit inspiration that we confess and believe unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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What is interesting is that not one of the Scriptures you give clearly says that God has not offered salvation to every man. Nor do any of the Scriptures say that God does not want to save all of mankind. Nor do any of the verses you give say that God does not love all mankind or that he does not wish to save everyone.

If I am wrong, please kindly show me where any of these Scriptures say this?
The Bible was not written for children in elementary school, it was written for Adults who have the Spirit of God indwelling them. It is foolishness to the reprobate. You are trying to make the Bible say what you think it should say, instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself.

Your argument is weak and it exposes your desperation, the heavens and the earth will pass away but not a single word of God will ever pass away. The carnal man hates the Word of God, it is highly offensive to him. Only the elect of God love His Word.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I have explained Romans one many times, and it would be futile to explain it one more time! You will never see the true doctrine of Christ until you rightly divide the truth, and that would include dividing the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.
Oh, right. You do not believe Rom 1:18 - 32 refers to the unbeliever who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

You believe Rom 1:18 - 32 refers to God's "disobedient children".

I understand that you can not accept that you are using scriptures that have reference to the disobedient child of God, but just because you can not accept it does not make it so. your reasoning will not harmonize with all scriptures. I don't think you realize as children of God, we can, at times, do some very bad things.
Yes, I have read Romans 1 many times, and Yes, these are disobedient children of God.

Clearly you suppress the truth in unrighteousness concerning God's sovereignty in allowing mankind to reject Him.


Because you consider yourself as one of God's "elect", you have no qualms about changing Scripture to fit a doctrine never intended by God.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,851
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The Bible was not written for children in elementary school, it was written for Adults who have the Spirit of God indwelling them. It is foolishness to the reprobate. You are trying to make the Bible say what you think it should say, instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself.

Your argument is weak and it exposes your desperation, the heavens and the earth will pass away but not a single word of God will ever pass away. The carnal man hates the Word of God, it is highly offensive to him. Only the elect of God love His Word.
Well you once again show yourself ignorant of what the Lord Himself had to say.

Lu 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Frankly I have seen kindergarteners who were better versed in the basics of bible Christianity than you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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The Bible was not written for children in elementary school, it was written for Adults who have the Spirit of God indwelling them. It is foolishness to the reprobate. You are trying to make the Bible say what you think it should say, instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself.

Your argument is weak and it exposes your desperation, the heavens and the earth will pass away but not a single word of God will ever pass away. The carnal man hates the Word of God, it is highly offensive to him. Only the elect of God love His Word.

I don't see you giving any Scriptures, so I rest my case . . .

so I will give a few Scriptures that clearly say God loves all the world and wants everyone to come to repentance:

II Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I keep butting in on Slayer's conversation, but hard to resist. Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten (divinely punish), be zealous therefore and repent. Heb 12:6-7-8, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all (of my elect) are partakers, then ye are bastards, and not sons. In Ps 73:5, For they (talking about the wicked) are not PLAGUED (Greek translation= divinely punished) like other men. Rom 9:11-12-13, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. it was said unto her the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. John 6:37-38-39, All that the Father giveth me ( Eph 1:4, those that he chose before the foundation of the world) shall come to me, and him that cometh to me, I will in no way cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will, that OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day. So, Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that his Father gave him. And Jesus said that he would not lose any of them.
Your concluding statement is "so Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that his Father gave him": I looked diligently through all the above verses you gave to find where a verse says this, but I found none!

Can you help me? Where does one of the verses you gave make that statement?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,726
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The Bible was not written for children in elementary school, it was written for Adults who have the Spirit of God indwelling them. It is foolishness to the reprobate. You are trying to make the Bible say what you think it should say, instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself.

Your argument is weak and it exposes your desperation, the heavens and the earth will pass away but not a single word of God will ever pass away. The carnal man hates the Word of God, it is highly offensive to him. Only the elect of God love His Word.
Slayer, I like your spirit, enthusiasm, and grit, but please look carefully at what the Bible really says - you have a piece of truth but taken way out of control - you are missing key ingredients of the heart of our Saviour . . .
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Well you once again show yourself ignorant of what the Lord Himself had to say.

Lu 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Frankly I have seen kindergarteners who were better versed in the basics of bible Christianity than you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I think you know what I was eluding to, we know that God deliberately wrote to Bible in such a way that it wouldn't make any sense to the reprobate. They dismiss it as utter foolishness, it was written to guide, enlighten, equip, educate and instruct Gods people only. It's message is deliberately hidden from those who are sealed for destruction.

You can always identify Gods people, by the way they respond to the Bible. If they fully embrace it and never question Gods motives then they are His children, if they are suspicious and always finding problems with it then you know they are not true believers.
 

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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I don't see you giving any Scriptures, so I rest my case . . .

so I will give a few Scriptures that clearly say God loves all the world and wants everyone to come to repentance:

II Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Now I want you to debunk every one of these scriptures which prove that you are dead wrong. Then come back and humbly apologize for ignoring them in the past and promise to embrace them from this day forth.

Below are 17+ verses that support the Doctrine of Election (sometimes referred to as predestination, but technically not the same). These are verses that don’t need other verses to support them. These verses alone are plain and clear. If we were to do a full exposition of predestination, the list would be even longer.

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
Ps 65:4
The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Prov 16:4
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mt 24:31
now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
Luke 18:7
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
Acts 15:17-18
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:28- 30
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:33
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Romans 9:11
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:2
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
Romans 11:5-7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1 Cor 2:7
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 1:5,11
knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
1 Thes 1:4
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
2 Thes 2:13
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Titus 1:1
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:2
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:8
Aren’t some of these so obvious??
 
Mar 23, 2016
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God deliberately wrote to Bible in such a way that it wouldn't make any sense to the reprobate. They dismiss it as utter foolishness, it was written to guide, enlighten, equip, educate and instruct Gods people only. It's message is deliberately hidden from those who are sealed for destruction.
More twisting of Scripture. Your utter nonsense affords those who find themselves in the lake of fire with yet another excuse – information was withheld which, had God not "deliberately [written] the Bible in such a way that it wouldn't make any sense to the reprobate", they would have been able to understand so as not to be cast into the lake of fire.

Is there no end to your insolence?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,726
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Now I want you to debunk every one of these scriptures which prove that you are dead wrong. Then come back and humbly apologize for ignoring them in the past and promise to embrace them from this day forth.

Below are 17+ verses that support the Doctrine of Election (sometimes referred to as predestination, but technically not the same). These are verses that don’t need other verses to support them. These verses alone are plain and clear. If we were to do a full exposition of predestination, the list would be even longer.

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
Ps 65:4
The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Prov 16:4
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mt 24:31
now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
Luke 18:7
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
Acts 15:17-18
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:28- 30
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:33
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Romans 9:11
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:2
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
Romans 11:5-7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1 Cor 2:7
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 1:5,11
knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
1 Thes 1:4
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
2 Thes 2:13
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Titus 1:1
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:2
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:8
Aren’t some of these so obvious??
Which one says that God does not love all of mankind and does not want everyone to be saved? :whistle: :whistle:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Paul writes to the believers in the church and Paul tells the believers about the wrath of God revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

Rom 1:18 does not describe the believers to whom Paul wrote the letter. Rom 1:18 describes unbelievers who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

That you want Rom 1:18 to describe "disobedient believers" does not make it so. You change the very Word of God in your desperate attempt to prop up a manmade doctrine.





The "spiritual things" spoken of in 1 Cor 2 relate to the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).

The "spiritual things" spoken of in 1 Cor 2 do not relate to the natural, physical realm of the creation spoken of in Rom 1:20-21 which is easily observed by natural man.





Your dogma has twisted Scripture into a pretzel. Once we unwind your error, Scripture speaks eloquently and tells us in Rom 1:18-32 that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.
The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not believe in a spiritual God, and furthermore, cannot discern spiritual laws, or the judgement of a spiritual God's judgments of those laws. The disobedient children of God, however, do know those spiritual things. Rom 1:32, Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. You may not change the word of God to uphold your false doctrine of eternal deliverance by works of man, you just do not acknowledge the scriptures that you can not explain, and you do not rightly divide the salvation scriptures from an eternal meaning to a timely meaning that we receive as we live here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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What you have posted is completely absurd.

You have confused denying self with denying Christ.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You are saying that Paul is teaching salvation by works? Paul is saying by Holy Spirit inspiration that we confess and believe unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul "IS" preaching salvation(deliverance) by works, just not eternal deliverance, because Paul preaches that eternal deliverance is strictly by God's sovereign grace. There are far more salvation scriptures dealing with the deliverance, here on earth, of disobedient children of God, than there are dealing with eternal deliverance. When Jesus tells someone to deny yourself, and you try to make it say "deny me", that is really stretching a scripture to keep from denying your works as a cause of your eternal deliverance. Why would Jesus say, "deny me, and take up your cross and follow me? If that were the case, Jesus would say " deny me and take up your cross and do not follow me". Is that really what you are telling me?