Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
Yes we believe God loves His elect unconditionally. And He doesn't save those whom He chose to leave in their sins. And yes we are no better than those whom He left in their sin.
Then he plainly does not have unconditional love period, he has selective love, call it whatever you wish, he placed the needs of a selective group of people over the needs of others, Don't sit there and try to sell to the world God has unconditional love, when you teach he does not. He has conditional love, No matter what that condition is, it is conditional love.

I used to have a problem with Gods sovereignty and His right to choose to save some and not others, but God showed me that it's none of my business to judge the things He does. I came to believe that Gods ways are as high as the heavens are above mine, so I realized how ludicrous it was to judge God.
I have no problem with Gods sovereignty, I have an issue with people making God out to be a God who is unfair, and unloving, and who would not die for his own creation an offer everyone a chance, In fact, I think his sovereignty shows he did this, because it was his will.

And you speak of romans 9, Your issue begins there, You have a fatalistic view, not a sovereign view of God has been in control since the begining, and he keeps his promises to all people. Even Israel (chapters 9 - 11) this no one should question why he does things, or his love.

I was trying to make God adhere to my expectation and standards, I didn't want to believe in a different God to the one I created in my own mind. I was satisfied with that one and I didn't want to replace him with the true God, because I thought the true God was unfair and harsh.
Yet you are making God adhere to your expectation and standards now. By claiming for whatever reason you are chosen, and the person next to you may not be, So you will go to heaven, and they will not. and there is nothign they can do about it even if they wanted to.

Thats not Who God claims to be.

It wasn't until I allowed God to be God and to get off His throne, that I found peace and acceptance of all things exactly as they are. We believe God has a good purpose in everything He does, even if it appears to be evil in our eyes. I can't give this truth to anyone, only God can liberate a person from slavery to false beliefs.

if you have peace with God sending millions maybe billions to hell. and never gave them a chance to be saved. You have some serious issues my friend.


That would be like me having 10 kids, and even though non of them deserved my love, because they were all disobedient to me, I chose to save 3 of them and keep them in my house and serve them, and gave them the ability to do my will, while the other 7 I chose to kick out of my house and let them live in hell. because I never gave them the ability to do what is needed to have any kind of peaceful life or do my will, which would have saved them.

you can have that God, I want nothing to do with him,, That feeds right into Satans lie of who he is A God who is not loving, but treats his creation as robots havibng us all on a lease and forcing us to do his will.

I can only share what God has revealed to me, but I can't convince anyone to agree because God only reveals this to people at His predetermined and appointed time.
This is quite proud and arrogant, and why so many people want nothing to do with your God. You do not know how to discuss anything all you do is push you view, then attack them and say if God does not reveal it to you, You can't help us,

News flash, I do not need any help. Thank you, I found God, and he has revealed his true love to me, And his true grace and his true mercy for those who according to his will believe in his name.

I trust and love God in everything He does, I pray for the conversion of my family members but I must be prepared for the worst case scenario. They may all end up in the lake of fire and I must still love god with everything I have, He loves me unconditionally so I must trust and love Him unconditionally.
Yes and he does love you unconditionally, As he does all his creation. Which is why he wil not force anyone to believe in him, Yet he died for them all.. No one, and I mean no one will ever question Gods love again, because God will send people to hell he died for because he loved the unconditionally, but they rejected his salvation. I pray one day you see this
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,701
1,358
113
#62
Then he plainly does not have unconditional love period, he has selective love, call it whatever you wish, he placed the needs of a selective group of people over the needs of others, Don't sit there and try to sell to the world God has unconditional love, when you teach he does not. He has conditional love, No matter what that condition is, it is conditional love.
Hi eg ... Just a head's up - Slayer does not believe God has unconditional love toward all mankind. Slayer believes God loves only those who are "elect" and "chosen".
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
#63
I'm so glad that Jesus loves me. Jesus loves all the little children of the world. Every color and creed Jesus loves them all. Most of all I'm glad Jesus love me even me.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Jesus loves sinful men. Jesus died to save sinful men from their sins. The healthy have no need of a physician. All are lost in sin. Jesus saves sinful men.

I'm so glad that Jesus loves me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#64
I didn't mean to insult the creator of the universe, I just wanted to point out that the God I believe in is a puppet master if you will. He's much more than a puppet master, He's the master of everything including salvation. That's what we believe, we refuse to believe in a god who doesn't get what he wants.
I am truly sorry you believe that. That is not the God of the Bible.

It's a self defeating argument, to say you believe in a God who can do anything but then He failed miserably when it came to saving all those who He wanted to save. He only managed to save a smallish number, I was referring to that god and not the God we read about in the Bible who is almighty and sovereign over all things.

We don't believe that God left salvation in the hands of fallen sinful men, we believe He does the saving from start to finish. We just go along for the ride.
You (again) forget, or simply deny, that God gave us free will.

One thing Calvinism does is remove all responsibility from people. Whatever happens is God's fault. Maybe that's why some people like Calvinism, it frees them from being accountable for anything.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
Hi eg ... Just a head's up - Slayer does not believe God has unconditional love toward all mankind. Slayer believes God loves only those who are "elect" and "chosen".
Yes, unfortunately this is what i see also, which gives God a bad name.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#66
Well, according to you, I can only do what I need "to be saved ( delivered )" if I am one of those "elect" you so love to throw in the face of the true believer.

I believe your thinking is steeped in calvinism and not in the truth of God's Word.
The eternal salvation achieved by good works will never harmonize with all of the scriptures. I don't think that you understand 1 Cor 2:14 or Dan 4:35 or John 6:37 or John 6:39 Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that the Father gave him. Did God give Jesus all mankind? Will all mankind be eternally saved? Jesus's sacrifice was given to God, for God's acceptance. His sacrifice was for the sins of the people God gave him, but was given to God for his acceptance, and not given to man for man's acceptance. Man has no part, or choice to make about his natural birth and his spiritual birth is the same way, he has no part or choice in it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#67
You neglect the fact that God has placed within each and every person born from time of Adam to this day, and beyond this day, that which is needed to not reject Him. He gave mankind a conscience so they can "hear" when He speaks to them and so they can respond when He "draws" them.

Notice in your Psalm 52 that it is the fool who says there is no God who is being referred to in vss 2-3. David is writing about the fool who does not believe in God. Those who restrain/suppress the truth are without excuse.
Again, you are not understanding 1 Cor 2:14.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
#68
The eternal salvation achieved by good works will never harmonize with all of the scriptures. I don't think that you understand 1 Cor 2:14 or Dan 4:35 or John 6:37 or John 6:39 Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that the Father gave him. Did God give Jesus all mankind? Will all mankind be eternally saved? Jesus's sacrifice was given to God, for God's acceptance. His sacrifice was for the sins of the people God gave him, but was given to God for his acceptance, and not given to man for man's acceptance. Man has no part, or choice to make about his natural birth and his spiritual birth is the same way, he has no part or choice in it.
You keep slaying that strawman. He will burn in the flames and be no more. Then who will you hide behind? No one is advocating salvation by works. They are advocating salvation according to the scriptures. Christ calls men everywhere to repentance. Those who answer are not working but responding as pleases the Lord.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#69

I responded to your Dan 4:35 misinterpretation in the "God does not love all mankind" thread:


God rules over the kingdoms of the earth and those who rule are not given power without God's oversight. Nebuchadnezzer is not addressing the issue of salvation in Dan 4:35.

You misconstrue the meaning of Dan 4:35 when you associate the verse with salvation.

Daniel 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.


Can you please answer why it does not bother you that Thayer's has been manipulated to support a rendering never intended by Thayer or God?

Your continued and obstinate ignoring of this issue will not make it go away. You have been made aware that there has been alteration and you continue to quote the later version without acknowledging and/or disclosing that the later version has been modified to support a certain doctrine.






You presume much when you make statements such as this.





The one who limits God's power is the one who does not believe God is able to save all mankind and who believes the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is insufficient.
Do you believe that God does according to his will among the inhabitants of the earth? You can try to explain away that this statement is not talking about eternal salvation, but it is applied to anything that is God's will for man whether it be for something he wants man to do here on earth or for his eternal salvation, and you are trying to limit his power, in which, I think that he will hold you accountable for. Among the seven things that God said he hates and at the top of the list is a proud look or pride. The doctrine of eternal salvation by good works is nothing but pride.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
#70
Do you believe that God does according to his will among the inhabitants of the earth? You can try to explain away that this statement is not talking about eternal salvation, but it is applied to anything that is God's will for man whether it be for something he wants man to do here on earth or for his eternal salvation, and you are trying to limit his power, in which, I think that he will hold you accountable for. Among the seven things that God said he hates and at the top of the list is a proud look or pride. The doctrine of eternal salvation by good works is nothing but pride.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You will not submit to the will of God. You will not humble yourself to see yourself as a sinner. You count yourself worthy above others by your false understanding of election. You are not elect until God elects you through Christ. Christ cannot receive you until you come to Him and seek His forgiveness.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Is the coming to Christ a work? God ministers in the hearts of unsaved men to bring them to the Son for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#71
You keep slaying that strawman. He will burn in the flames and be no more. Then who will you hide behind? No one is advocating salvation by works. They are advocating salvation according to the scriptures. Christ calls men everywhere to repentance. Those who answer are not working but responding as pleases the Lord.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
They, and you with them are claiming that man is required to respond in a favorable way toward God before God can eternally save him. You admit that God is all powerful and that he wants to eternally save all mankind and he can not accomplish his will because man will not let him. It is a shame that you limit the power of God. If man has to respond, THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A WORK, such as accept, repent, confess, believe etc.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
#72
They, and you with them are claiming that man is required to respond in a favorable way toward God before God can eternally save him. You admit that God is all powerful and that he wants to eternally save all mankind and he can not accomplish his will because man will not let him. It is a shame that you limit the power of God. If man has to respond, THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A WORK, such as accept, repent, confess, believe etc.
Its not about power. God has all the power and we have none. Is it unreasonable for God to allow us to accept His gracious offer or must He force it upon us.

You do not trust God or His word. You make God into an unloving Creator, an unloving Father. It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. Not the sovereign power of God but His goodness toward sinful men. God loves sinful men even though they hate Him. His love converts their hearts and ushers them into the presence of the Savior.

God will not beat you over the head nor will He strive with you forever. Today is the day of salvation.

2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,567
867
113
#73
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You will not submit to the will of God. You will not humble yourself to see yourself as a sinner. You count yourself worthy above others by your false understanding of election. You are not elect until God elects you through Christ. Christ cannot receive you until you come to Him and seek His forgiveness.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Is the coming to Christ a work? God ministers in the hearts of unsaved men to bring them to the Son for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
This scripture is talking about a person that has already been born again of the Spirit and have had a knowledge of the truth and have turned away from it. You do not understand the depravity of your fleshly nature, that God's children can do bad things.
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,701
1,358
113
#74
The eternal salvation achieved by good works will never harmonize with all of the scriptures. I don't think that you understand 1 Cor 2:14 or Dan 4:35 or John 6:37 or John 6:39 Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that the Father gave him. Did God give Jesus all mankind? Will all mankind be eternally saved? Jesus's sacrifice was given to God, for God's acceptance. His sacrifice was for the sins of the people God gave him, but was given to God for his acceptance, and not given to man for man's acceptance. Man has no part, or choice to make about his natural birth and his spiritual birth is the same way, he has no part or choice in it.
In agreement that salvation is wholly due to God's grace, mercy, lovingkindness.

I don't think you understand 1 Cor 2:14 or Dan 4:35 or John 6:37 or John 6:39.

Jesus died for all mankind. Just because God allows mankind to reject His precious gift does not mean Jesus did not die for all.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,528
113
#75
This scripture is talking about a person that has already been born again of the Spirit and have had a knowledge of the truth and have turned away from it. You do not understand the depravity of your fleshly nature, that God's children can do bad things.
Not possible. You mistake religious people for Christian people.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,701
1,358
113
#76
Do you believe that God does according to his will among the inhabitants of the earth?
What did God want when He told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

If it was God's will that Adam not eat, then why did Adam eat?

If it was God's will that Adam eat, then why did God tell Adam not to eat?




ForestGreenCook said:
You can try to explain away that this statement is not talking about eternal salvation,
I'm not explaining anything away. I read the context within which the verse sits (something you are hesitant to do because it does not support your erroneous belief that salvation is the issue when the issue is that God gives rulership in the earth to whoever He wants - Dan 4:25).




ForestGreenCook said:
but it is applied to anything that is God's will for man whether it be for something he wants man to do here on earth or for his eternal salvation,
In agreement that God works all things together for good. Look what He did with Passover. 1 Cor 2:8 tells us if the princes of this world had known the mystery, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But they did not know the mystery, and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ endured the cross, despising the shame, and God has given Him the name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.




ForestGreenCook said:
and you are trying to limit his power, in which, I think that he will hold you accountable for. Among the seven things that God said he hates and at the top of the list is a proud look or pride. The doctrine of eternal salvation by good works is nothing but pride.
Nope. I do not limit the power of God. If anyone limits God's power, it's the one who claims God cannot save all mankind and that Jesus' sacrifice was insufficient to cover all mankind. Those who end up in the lake of fire do so because they suppressed the truth in unrighteousness and rejected God's gracious call to them.


 
Mar 23, 2016
4,701
1,358
113
#77
They, and you with them are claiming that man is required to respond in a favorable way toward God before God can eternally save him. You admit that God is all powerful and that he wants to eternally save all mankind and he can not accomplish his will because man will not let him. It is a shame that you limit the power of God. If man has to respond, THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A WORK, such as accept, repent, confess, believe etc.
It seems to me that you want what God offered to Moses:

Exodus 32:9-10 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.


But guess what? Moses prevailed and God acquiesced – Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.


You want salvation to be like what God offered Moses.

Here's another record Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


Yes, God could have the whole lot of mankind as you seem to want.


But God did not make mankind like you want. God continued to allow mankind to reject Him when He discussed it with Moses, and He did not raise up children unto Abraham from stones. He decided He would allow those who reject to reject and sort it out at the end. I wonder that you don't follow His lead ...

 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#78
Then he plainly does not have unconditional love period, he has selective love, call it whatever you wish, he placed the needs of a selective group of people over the needs of others, Don't sit there and try to sell to the world God has unconditional love, when you teach he does not. He has conditional love, No matter what that condition is, it is conditional love.


I have no problem with Gods sovereignty, I have an issue with people making God out to be a God who is unfair, and unloving, and who would not die for his own creation an offer everyone a chance, In fact, I think his sovereignty shows he did this, because it was his will.

And you speak of romans 9, Your issue begins there, You have a fatalistic view, not a sovereign view of God has been in control since the begining, and he keeps his promises to all people. Even Israel (chapters 9 - 11) this no one should question why he does things, or his love.


Yet you are making God adhere to your expectation and standards now. By claiming for whatever reason you are chosen, and the person next to you may not be, So you will go to heaven, and they will not. and there is nothign they can do about it even if they wanted to.

Thats not Who God claims to be.



if you have peace with God sending millions maybe billions to hell. and never gave them a chance to be saved. You have some serious issues my friend.

That would be like me having 10 kids, and even though non of them deserved my love, because they were all disobedient to me, I chose to save 3 of them and keep them in my house and serve them, and gave them the ability to do my will, while the other 7 I chose to kick out of my house and let them live in hell. because I never gave them the ability to do what is needed to have any kind of peaceful life or do my will, which would have saved them.

you can have that God, I want nothing to do with him,, That feeds right into Satans lie of who he is A God who is not loving, but treats his creation as robots havibng us all on a lease and forcing us to do his will.


This is quite proud and arrogant, and why so many people want nothing to do with your God. You do not know how to discuss anything all you do is push you view, then attack them and say if God does not reveal it to you, You can't help us,

News flash, I do not need any help. Thank you, I found God, and he has revealed his true love to me, And his true grace and his true mercy for those who according to his will believe in his name.


Yes and he does love you unconditionally, As he does all his creation. Which is why he wil not force anyone to believe in him, Yet he died for them all.. No one, and I mean no one will ever question Gods love again, because God will send people to hell he died for because he loved the unconditionally, but they rejected his salvation. I pray one day you see this
I have a big problem with unconditional love for all mankind. We are still dealing with the same God who destroyed the whole world by flood and only saved a handful of people.
That doesn't look or sound like unconditional love for all mankind to me, and there are many other examples of Gods hatred for men in the bible where He destroys entire cities and thousands of people out of His wrath for sinful men.

Those who will not be saved do not want to be saved, so they are directly responsible for going to hell. The offer is there for all but only the elect will chose to believe, and the rest will reject it so you can't blame God for their rejection of the free offer of salvation for everyone.

God should destroy the whole world with fire and brimstone right now and send everyone to hell, that would be what we all deserve. But out of His sovereign love He has decided to save many whom He loves unconditionally.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#79
I am truly sorry you believe that. That is not the God of the Bible.


You (again) forget, or simply deny, that God gave us free will.

One thing Calvinism does is remove all responsibility from people. Whatever happens is God's fault. Maybe that's why some people like Calvinism, it frees them from being accountable for anything.
I don't believe that God gives us a free will, the Bible tells us the we are all slaves to sin until we are born again.

Calvinism places all responsibility on the individual, so we believe everything is his fault. Calvinism makes the everyone accountable for everything they do.
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,701
1,358
113
#80
The offer is there for all but only the elect will chose to believe, and the rest will reject it so you can't blame God for their rejection of the free offer of salvation for everyone.
You claim that those who reject do so because God does not give what is needed to not reject. If God does as you claim, then God is to blame for their rejection because He withholds what is needed.

I do not believe as you do. I believe those who reject do so of their own volition and not because God did not give them what is needed to not reject. Just as the invitation to the marriage in Matt 22. The invitees rejected the invitation so the king invited others. Those who attended the marriage were the ones who did not reject the invitation.