Does Oneness theology (Modalism) teach a "sock puppet" view of God's nature?

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Is the "sock puppet" analogy of Oneness theology a fair representation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • No

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 14.3%

  • Total voters
    7

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,112
639
113
#21
I believe Jesus is the Living Word of God manifested in the flesh. What does that make me?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God :)
Jesus did come in the flesh to be as like man but without sin. The theory of Oneness is that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are the same person and not three distinct entities.

As for what you are, from your words you seem to believe in Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Of course I don’t know your heart, but from my observation you seem very sincere. That’s a very good thing in this day in age.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,658
7,190
113
#22
Jesus did come in the flesh to be as like man but without sin. The theory of Oneness is that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are the same person and not three distinct entities.

As for what you are, from your words you seem to believe in Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Of course I don’t know your heart, but from my observation you seem very sincere. That’s a very good thing in this day in age.
Since God is Spirit and Jesus was/is human, I do not understand how they cannot see Them as separate even as they are One. Do they deny the Deity of Christ, then? I do understand that trying to comprehend God in His infinite totality is a bit of a losing proposition for our finite minds, and I also understand that some have a hard time grasping the concept/doctrine of the Trinity. It is certainly secondary to knowing that Jesus is God, for He said that "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." And yes, He is the Lamb without blemish, purposed from before the foundation of the world to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Born in Adam, we need to be born again of the Spirit to be reconciled to God, perfected in Him, and attain to life ever after.

 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#23
You are correct again. But was he praying to His Father or was he praying to other manifestation of God? I just want to be sure I understand where you are coming from.
He was praying to the Father. I am not a Oneness guy. I think it's absurd.
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
58
28
#24
He was praying to the Father. I am not a Oneness guy. I think it's absurd.
Part of the point of Jesus, is He is us, fully man, as limited, frail, vulnerable, frightened, needy, desiring, ambitious as we are.
And as a man He called us friends, ones who God wishes to share all He has.

Now that is the amazing nature of God. That He should express Himself as a man, take the risk that His heart and soul and life would survive and walk in perfection with us, and not inappropriately respond.

The temptation of Jesus was very real, and proved the point that God was as vulnerable as we are, yet His heart responded as we should in love and worship to the King, the Father.

So separate was Jesus's behaviour and so like a prophet, many groups have called Him just a prophet, a created being and not God.

It is classic of the Lord to create this middle path, which is the most difficult to understand yet both demonstrates the best realities but takes time to really take in.

As I write this, I am still amazed, that God came to my house today and eat with me at breakfast.

Phil 2:6-8
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#25
Part of the point of Jesus, is He is us, fully man, as limited, frail, vulnerable, frightened, needy, desiring, ambitious as we are.
And as a man He called us friends, ones who God wishes to share all He has.

Now that is the amazing nature of God. That He should express Himself as a man, take the risk that His heart and soul and life would survive and walk in perfection with us, and not inappropriately respond.

The temptation of Jesus was very real, and proved the point that God was as vulnerable as we are, yet His heart responded as we should in love and worship to the King, the Father.

So separate was Jesus's behaviour and so like a prophet, many groups have called Him just a prophet, a created being and not God.

It is classic of the Lord to create this middle path, which is the most difficult to understand yet both demonstrates the best realities but takes time to really take in.

As I write this, I am still amazed, that God came to my house today and eat with me at breakfast.

Phil 2:6-8
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!
I agree if this is within the context of the hypostatic union.

Jesus didn't cease to be YHVH in the Incarnation.

He maintains a dual nature even today. He is truly God and truly glorified man.
 
Jan 5, 2020
263
58
28
#26
I agree if this is within the context of the hypostatic union.

Jesus didn't cease to be YHVH in the Incarnation.

He maintains a dual nature even today. He is truly God and truly glorified man.
I agree 100%, though thankfully it is still a mystery.
When I go through the different issues, I always end up in wonder.

In physics they were talking about seeing the black hole using a radio telescope.

When they got the final picture, which confirmed the idea of a totally collapsed star,
the point was made when things go to infinity, so goes our perceptions etc.
God the infinite is beyond our created environment, Amen
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#27
I agree 100%, though thankfully it is still a mystery.
When I go through the different issues, I always end up in wonder.

In physics they were talking about seeing the black hole using a radio telescope.

When they got the final picture, which confirmed the idea of a totally collapsed star,
the point was made when things go to infinity, so goes our perceptions etc.
God the infinite is beyond our created environment, Amen
Agreed. :)
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,112
639
113
#28
Since God is Spirit and Jesus was/is human, I do not understand how they cannot see Them as separate even as they are One. Do they deny the Deity of Christ, then? I do understand that trying to comprehend God in His infinite totality is a bit of a losing proposition for our finite minds, and I also understand that some have a hard time grasping the concept/doctrine of the Trinity. It is certainly secondary to knowing that Jesus is God, for He said that "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." And yes, He is the Lamb without blemish, purposed from before the foundation of the world to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Born in Adam, we need to be born again of the Spirit to be reconciled to God, perfected in Him, and attain to life ever after.

I truly admire and respect your faith. If just a little bit of that rub off on others, I can only image what could be accomplished! 😇
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,074
2,308
113
#29
I don't understand what the difference is in looking at God in different ways.

One God in three persons.

Or One God in three manifestations. Or four if you count Theophanies.


What would really change for us if we looked at it either way?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,570
271
83
#30
I don't understand what the difference is in looking at God in different ways.

One God in three persons.

Or One God in three manifestations. Or four if you count Theophanies.


What would really change for us if we looked at it either way?
It makes a "huge" difference because in Trinitarian theology and in oneness thelogy have a different understanding in God manifesting Himself. Oneness believe Jesus Christ is God the Father which means the Father is playing a "role" or in the mode of the Son Jesus Christ. Hence, the word "Modalism." Do some homework and look the word up.

Plus, oneness do not believe Jesus preexisted His incarnation as a man. They also believe you must be water baptized to be saved and speak in tongues. There are also very "legalistic" and they believe they are the only true church. When I have more time I will expand on all of this. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,408
113
#31
looks like im a heretic again. i was reading your op and i was agreeing with the sockpuppet analogy saying yeah thats how it is lolz
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,408
113
#32
I believe Jesus is the Living Word of God manifested in the flesh. What does that make me?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God :)
yes this is what i mean. i believe it like this too. i heard one say its we are made in God's image. so you got the Father (soul) The Son (body) and Holy Spirit (spirit)

but these three are one and they make one God. its simple really. i see it ilke that
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,112
639
113
#33
yes this is what i mean. i believe it like this too. i heard one say its we are made in God's image. so you got the Father (soul) The Son (body) and Holy Spirit (spirit)

but these three are one and they make one God. its simple really. i see it ilke that
Simply for the topic discussion, do you think the 3 are separate but equal entities? I always like to know someone else’s view of things.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,408
113
#34
Simply for the topic discussion, do you think the 3 are separate but equal entities? I always like to know someone else’s view of things.
hi friend. i say they are separate yet one, three in one

but equal entities. i dont know about that. its one God but there seems to be order of command where Father is at top. because it says that Jesus Himself will be subject to the Father in 1cor 15 and also Jesus said the Father is greater than I am. so maybe not equal. i say maybe because i dont wanna degrade Jesus i just go by with what those two verses seem to be saying on the surface unless i misunderstand them.
Holy Spirit is said to not speak of His own but what He hears too.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,559
1,704
113
#35
Oneness and Modalism fall apart in light of a literal translation of Deuteronomy 6:4 and numerous other references in the Old Testament that use a plural form of the word that is rendered as God in English.

English Standard Version
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Yahweh) our God (Elohenu), the LORD (Yahweh) is one.

A literal rendering is the Lord our Gods (Elohenu is plural) the Lord is one

The only explanation of a singular plurality is within the Trinity (one God, three persons).
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#36
yes this is what i mean. i believe it like this too. i heard one say its we are made in God's image. so you got the Father (soul) The Son (body) and Holy Spirit (spirit)

but these three are one and they make one God. its simple really. i see it ilke that
That analogy is a poor one..it is a Oneness theology position.

Christianity teaches that there is one Being, God, who is three in Person, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

That's the problem..you can't have relationships between "manifestations" that are coherent.

The opposite extreme is tri-theism..claiming there are three separate gods, which is a heresy too.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#37
hi friend. i say they are separate yet one, three in one

but equal entities. i dont know about that. its one God but there seems to be order of command where Father is at top. because it says that Jesus Himself will be subject to the Father in 1cor 15 and also Jesus said the Father is greater than I am. so maybe not equal. i say maybe because i dont wanna degrade Jesus i just go by with what those two verses seem to be saying on the surface unless i misunderstand them.
Holy Spirit is said to not speak of His own but what He hears too.
Jesus is subordinate to the Father in terms of role, but not essence. In fact, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share the same essence.

Jesus is truly God.

He is also truly glorified man.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,896
1,613
113
#38
I don't understand what the difference is in looking at God in different ways.

One God in three persons.

Or One God in three manifestations. Or four if you count Theophanies.


What would really change for us if we looked at it either way?
I believe it's a serious issue because the relational component between the three Persons of the Godhead is lacking in Oneness theology.

There are no Persons to interact within the Godhead if Oneness theology is correct. Any supposed relationships are shams.

And, there is no coherency to the atonement or intercession if Oneness theology is correct. Intercession requires three parties; the intercessor (Jesus), the one being interceded for (the believer), and the one that intercession is toward (the Father).

Because it lacks the distinct Personhood, Oneness theology makes much of Scripture incoherent.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,074
2,308
113
#39
It makes a "huge" difference because in Trinitarian theology and in oneness thelogy have a different understanding in God manifesting Himself. Oneness believe Jesus Christ is God the Father which means the Father is playing a "role" or in the mode of the Son Jesus Christ. Hence, the word "Modalism." Do some homework and look the word up.

Plus, oneness do not believe Jesus preexisted His incarnation as a man. They also believe you must be water baptized to be saved and speak in tongues. There are also very "legalistic" and they believe they are the only true church. When I have more time I will expand on all of this. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I wasn't talking about Oneness Pentecostals.

I was really wondering what the difference is to us if we think of God as a trinity or if we think of Him as manifesting His Self in different ways.

It doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference or at least not a big enough of one to get upset about.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,074
2,308
113
#40
I believe it's a serious issue because the relational component between the three Persons of the Godhead is lacking in Oneness theology.

There are no Persons to interact within the Godhead if Oneness theology is correct. Any supposed relationships are shams.

And, there is no coherency to the atonement or intercession if Oneness theology is correct. Intercession requires three parties; the intercessor (Jesus), the one being interceded for (the believer), and the one that intercession is toward (the Father).

Because it lacks the distinct Personhood, Oneness theology makes much of Scripture incoherent.
If it is just one God that manifests in different ways then it could be said that they have a perfect relationship between each other.

The Atonement and Intercession is required by the Law so this is just God fulfilling it in the way He has decided.


But I do kind of see how its kind of weird to worship a manifestation (The Lord Jesus Christ) instead of the person Jesus.

I was kind of ok with looking at it that way until I thought of that....