DRUNK IN THE SPIRIT
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The fact is, there are some terrible excesses these days in various churches. I am not sure about Pentecostals, I never saw it there, but independent, Word Faith and people just searching for an "experience" instead of God all over the place! Instead of seeking God in his Word, and in prayer and communion with God. And in the sermon, the music and the fellowship!
Of course, on the other side of things, there are rigid, fundamentalist churches that do not allow for the Spirit to move in people's hearts and lives. They do not live by the Word of God, but rather the inflexible self interpretation of the Word. And that can be just as sad!
So excesses both ways, and certainly many unsaved people in, I would say, every church and denomination in existence. For me, though, when I see wild flinging, and noises and extremes, it reminds me of why I had to leave those churches. And the places where every church service that didn't have something over the top, the Lord wasn't there. To say nothing of those "dead, old churches!" How many times did I hear that from charismatics, who slandered more than half the body of Christ? Too many times!
Again, I don't think anyone is going to persuade people over to their point of view. Like me, and others who have posted on this thread, people are gong to have to learn to be discerning, and walk away from the extremes of either side of worshipping God. At this point in life, I am in a very Spirit-filled Baptist Church. Does anyone speak in tongues? Not in the assembly, although at times, the leadership has had amazing and life changing altar calls, and people healed of illness, grief and sorrow. But never throwing things, barking like dogs, and generally having no discrimination of judgment concerning these things that are constantly being hailed as the latest move of God.
God moves every where. All the time! The question is, for everyone, are you in that moment of God, or some kind of counterfeit?
Of course, on the other side of things, there are rigid, fundamentalist churches that do not allow for the Spirit to move in people's hearts and lives. They do not live by the Word of God, but rather the inflexible self interpretation of the Word. And that can be just as sad!
So excesses both ways, and certainly many unsaved people in, I would say, every church and denomination in existence. For me, though, when I see wild flinging, and noises and extremes, it reminds me of why I had to leave those churches. And the places where every church service that didn't have something over the top, the Lord wasn't there. To say nothing of those "dead, old churches!" How many times did I hear that from charismatics, who slandered more than half the body of Christ? Too many times!
Again, I don't think anyone is going to persuade people over to their point of view. Like me, and others who have posted on this thread, people are gong to have to learn to be discerning, and walk away from the extremes of either side of worshipping God. At this point in life, I am in a very Spirit-filled Baptist Church. Does anyone speak in tongues? Not in the assembly, although at times, the leadership has had amazing and life changing altar calls, and people healed of illness, grief and sorrow. But never throwing things, barking like dogs, and generally having no discrimination of judgment concerning these things that are constantly being hailed as the latest move of God.
God moves every where. All the time! The question is, for everyone, are you in that moment of God, or some kind of counterfeit?
P
You attack charismatics. You posted a vid. Stop trying to bracket things in your box.
You high five your attacker friends with "likes" emboldening them and egging them on. Your hatred for the gifts is no secret or your hatred for charismatics.
And no,my comment on "jews" simply illustrates you guy's heart,and what you do. You attack,then make anyone exposing your deal the bad guy.
Go command someone else
You high five your attacker friends with "likes" emboldening them and egging them on. Your hatred for the gifts is no secret or your hatred for charismatics.
And no,my comment on "jews" simply illustrates you guy's heart,and what you do. You attack,then make anyone exposing your deal the bad guy.
Go command someone else
Brother,
I am not attacking you but reproving the topic of this thread, but I realize that only God can peradventure in ministry.
As for your charges....
Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
That verse pretty much testify the opposite. That verse gives me cause to reprove, now doesn't it?
So until you address this thread on when the disciples were actually saved.... the discussion is at an empasse.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/148226-when-were-disciples-saved.html
This is why I do not believe in a continual filling of the Holy Spirit because the testimony of us having been filled at our salvation is a testimony as to why we are always saved as that seal is not going anywhere & neither is that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ.
John 6:[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Once filled at our salvation, we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled for that is a promise from Jesus Christ.
We are not leaky vessels that cannot hold the Holy Spirit in us when being filled is a testimony that we are saved.
Matthew 9:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
That is why we only preach Jesus Christ & Him crucified for He is the only hope of our calling. Jesus Christ is the Good News to man; not this calling to be drunk in the Spirit, let alone receive the promise of the Holy Spirit as if He is separate from salvation.
1 Corinthians 2:[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Proverbs 27:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
May God cause the increase.
I am not attacking you but reproving the topic of this thread, but I realize that only God can peradventure in ministry.
As for your charges....
Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
That verse pretty much testify the opposite. That verse gives me cause to reprove, now doesn't it?
So until you address this thread on when the disciples were actually saved.... the discussion is at an empasse.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/148226-when-were-disciples-saved.html
This is why I do not believe in a continual filling of the Holy Spirit because the testimony of us having been filled at our salvation is a testimony as to why we are always saved as that seal is not going anywhere & neither is that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ.
John 6:[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Once filled at our salvation, we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled for that is a promise from Jesus Christ.
We are not leaky vessels that cannot hold the Holy Spirit in us when being filled is a testimony that we are saved.
Matthew 9:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
That is why we only preach Jesus Christ & Him crucified for He is the only hope of our calling. Jesus Christ is the Good News to man; not this calling to be drunk in the Spirit, let alone receive the promise of the Holy Spirit as if He is separate from salvation.
1 Corinthians 2:[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Proverbs 27:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
May God cause the increase.
1. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
2.The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a second work. The 120 disciples were already saved before the Day of Pentecost.
Notice 2 separate works:
1It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”1) 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 2)6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7There were in all about twelve men.
Two separate things..... salvation first, the baptism in the Holy Spirit afterward.
2.The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a second work. The 120 disciples were already saved before the Day of Pentecost.
Notice 2 separate works:
1It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”1) 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 2)6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7There were in all about twelve men.
Two separate things..... salvation first, the baptism in the Holy Spirit afterward.
Who says that means falling backwards & not forward when one kneels to the Lord?
What Bible verses would have them NOT as falling backward?
Isaiah 28:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision,they stumble in judgment.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Being drunk in the Spirit has the focus on the Holy Spirit in worship to receive this filling;
Seeking to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit continuously is how those people are stumbling in judgment.
God's gift of tongues is always about another foreign tongue to speak to the people.
The real baptism of the Holy Ghost comes at our salvation when we rest in Jesus Christ as saved believers.
When believers reject this gospel when they seek a continual filling, that is when they are falling backwards.
So your scriptural reference has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit as He is today for He dwells in us. That is the difference between the Old Covenant & the New Covenant where any spirit outside of us is the spirit of the antichrist, because with Him inside of us is how the Holy Spirit cannot get any closer to us than He is already.
2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
That verse above is what John is saying in verse 2 below, because verse 3 confirms that anyone presently saying that Jesus Christ "SI NOT COME IN THE FLESH" is that spirit of the antichrist that is in the world ( vs 3 ) as opposing the real Spirit of God within us in verse 4.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Dwelling within us is the only way to know the Holy Spirit from the spirit of the antichrist.
John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
That is how the world receives spirits for they seek after them with a sign, even wizards of babbling tongues, which cannot come with interpretation.
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
1 John 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Now thanks to Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd, I have showed line by line and precept by precept why being drunk in the Spirit and seeking a baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues that never comes with interpretation is not of God at all.
What Bible verses would have them NOT as falling backward?
Isaiah 28:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision,they stumble in judgment.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Being drunk in the Spirit has the focus on the Holy Spirit in worship to receive this filling;
Seeking to receive the filling of the Holy Spirit continuously is how those people are stumbling in judgment.
God's gift of tongues is always about another foreign tongue to speak to the people.
The real baptism of the Holy Ghost comes at our salvation when we rest in Jesus Christ as saved believers.
When believers reject this gospel when they seek a continual filling, that is when they are falling backwards.
So your scriptural reference has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit as He is today for He dwells in us. That is the difference between the Old Covenant & the New Covenant where any spirit outside of us is the spirit of the antichrist, because with Him inside of us is how the Holy Spirit cannot get any closer to us than He is already.
2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
That verse above is what John is saying in verse 2 below, because verse 3 confirms that anyone presently saying that Jesus Christ "SI NOT COME IN THE FLESH" is that spirit of the antichrist that is in the world ( vs 3 ) as opposing the real Spirit of God within us in verse 4.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Dwelling within us is the only way to know the Holy Spirit from the spirit of the antichrist.
John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
That is how the world receives spirits for they seek after them with a sign, even wizards of babbling tongues, which cannot come with interpretation.
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
1 John 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Now thanks to Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd, I have showed line by line and precept by precept why being drunk in the Spirit and seeking a baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues that never comes with interpretation is not of God at all.
OK, I hope I can make a little sense of all this as I have had considerable experience in and out of the Pentecostal movement. First of all, when I say Pentecostals I am referring to a general audience, not 100%. I was a Pentecostal and when I look back I recognize that I never did buy into much of it because I knew the bible well and could see the error. One major error, Pentecostals tend to be dishonest and add to stories of miracles and manipulate scripture. For example, the priest could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud. Anyone can see that this is not describing people falling down but simply saying the priest could not enter into the Temple to minister while the cloud of God was there. Another, some mockers said that they were drunk, the mockers said that, not the three thousand that got saved, they said that they heard them speak of God in their native tongues. Pentecostals take these and other scriptures and manipulate them in order to made them appear to agree with their slain in the spirit. Folks please think...if you have to resort to manipulation and being dishonest then it CANNOT be of God whose very name is TRUTH.
The problem here is the pastor did not remember at all and so he cannot say one way or another if he had killed someone. There are incidences where people have discovered that they have killed even though they had not remembered it.
So the pastor cannot say because of the lack of the conviction from the Holy Ghost, that he is innocent. He was drunk, remember? Hardly being filled of the Spirit when he was drunk with wine.
As for his scriptural references abut how the secrets of men are revealed....it is because everyone is open to Whom we have to do.. Christ Jesus at that throne of grace...
Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
So when the books are open at the Great White Throne Judgement, everything will be open to Him that will judge.
Romans 2:[SUP]16 [/SUP]In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
It is a reference to that specific day in according to the gospel of Jesus Christ when He shall judge the quick & the dead.
Acts 10:42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
This is not a judgment given whenever people are hearing the gospel and be saved by believing in Him, but of that day when He shall judge the secrets of men.
If you are equating changed lives on believers that were already saved as that event is by the Holy Spirit coming over them for that conviction later on in life, then I ask you, He did a pretty poor job of it when believers are seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit when seeking to be drunk in the Spirit again and again and again.
There is no revival in being drunk in the Spirit; ergo... that is not the Holy Spirit coming over them. Changed lives is just a false hype to sell this other supernatural phenomenon as not of Him.
Popeye claims he was saved but he is defending being drunk in the Spirit as you are and so I asked you, if being drunk in the Spirit is continual, where is the changed lives if that is the point of being drunk in the Spirit?
By the way, those people came forward and knelt forward; not staggering nor falling backwards; that is a genuine revival.
So the pastor cannot say because of the lack of the conviction from the Holy Ghost, that he is innocent. He was drunk, remember? Hardly being filled of the Spirit when he was drunk with wine.
As for his scriptural references abut how the secrets of men are revealed....it is because everyone is open to Whom we have to do.. Christ Jesus at that throne of grace...
Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
So when the books are open at the Great White Throne Judgement, everything will be open to Him that will judge.
Romans 2:[SUP]16 [/SUP]In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
It is a reference to that specific day in according to the gospel of Jesus Christ when He shall judge the quick & the dead.
Acts 10:42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
This is not a judgment given whenever people are hearing the gospel and be saved by believing in Him, but of that day when He shall judge the secrets of men.
If you are equating changed lives on believers that were already saved as that event is by the Holy Spirit coming over them for that conviction later on in life, then I ask you, He did a pretty poor job of it when believers are seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit when seeking to be drunk in the Spirit again and again and again.
There is no revival in being drunk in the Spirit; ergo... that is not the Holy Spirit coming over them. Changed lives is just a false hype to sell this other supernatural phenomenon as not of Him.
Popeye claims he was saved but he is defending being drunk in the Spirit as you are and so I asked you, if being drunk in the Spirit is continual, where is the changed lives if that is the point of being drunk in the Spirit?
By the way, those people came forward and knelt forward; not staggering nor falling backwards; that is a genuine revival.
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Most of us Christians do not know the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Once we learn about His ministry to the believer we are empowered by faith and those living waters will flow. Jesus spoke about the Holy Spirit He was sending when He left the disciples and promised to return. He said He would not leave us alone. Step out of "religion" and dare to read the Bible asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the Word to you and His ministry to you while you are here on earth.
The scripture speaks against receiving another filling of the Holy Spirit as not of Him. The falling backwards is not of Him. Mimicking the supernatural tongues in the world before Pentecost is not of Him. The Holy Spirit being felt outside of us is not of Him.
So by the scriptures, you can know the real INDWELLING Holy Ghost and His ministry and the purpose of the spirits of the antichrist which is to take your eyes off of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in prayer, fellowship, and worship to chase after them to receive again and again and again for a sign.... as in this case.. being drunk in the spirit which is not the Holy Spirit.
So by the scriptures, you can know the real INDWELLING Holy Ghost and His ministry and the purpose of the spirits of the antichrist which is to take your eyes off of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in prayer, fellowship, and worship to chase after them to receive again and again and again for a sign.... as in this case.. being drunk in the spirit which is not the Holy Spirit.
The Great American Indians danced and chanted for the Great Spirit to come & equated being drunk with alcohol as one that is communing with the Great Spirit.
Dancing would be disorderly conduct in church service and worship just as speaking out of order would be. That is not being done decently and in order for what Paul is teaching the Corinthians about in holding a service as manifested by the Holy Ghost in them; not by Him falling on them.
Dancing would be disorderly conduct in church service and worship just as speaking out of order would be. That is not being done decently and in order for what Paul is teaching the Corinthians about in holding a service as manifested by the Holy Ghost in them; not by Him falling on them.